Question for law enforcement officers.

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doberman

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Sep 30, 2003
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Minneapolis, MN
I frequently have discussions about CCW laws with it's opponets here in Minnesota. They almost always try to convince me that the "main opponents"of CCW laws are "the police". Talking with a police officer recently here in Minneapolis I was told quite the opposite. I would like to hear the opinions of the LE members of this forum.

Thank you.:)
 
<--- Former LEO

The kind of person who goes to all that trouble and expense to get a license ain't the kind of person you need worry about with a gun.
Bear in mind that any LEO that is on this forum (with the possible exception of agricola) is of the same pro-RKBA mindset. You might try to find a LEO forum that is not a gun forum and ask there.
 
opponents of CCW will make up just about any amount of bullcrap to convince people of their position. The only (generally) cops who occasionally are against CCW are the cheifs, generally from big cities where they are elected or appointed. The guys on the street are generally on your side.
 
I'm not an LEO, but I've always thought this is a silly argument. What makes a police officer an authority on natural rights? The 2nd is a natural right, and the opinion of an anti-gun big city LEO is irrelevant.

LEOs can be just as susceptible to brainless anti-gun stupidity as anyone else, maybe more so, because they encounter criminals who misuse guns every day.
 
I'd say 90% of the officers in my unt are pro civilian carry, and the other %10 need to have thier head examined and badge removed....
 
Just my own observations....

By way of introduction, I'm a Federal lawman. (Go figure...) I have a good number of LEO acquaintences from the twenty-five years I've been doing this.

Generally speaking, regular officers in most law enforcement fields are either pro-second amendment or at worst, neutral. They would like to prevent criminals from getting guns (duh!) but are not worried about normal citizens.

However, "Administrators" are usually anti-gun. Normally the bigger city types who, as clubsoda22 mentioned, are appointed by mayors or city councils. Very political position. From this, it follows that those who want to be promoted into command level positions must in some measure "suck up" to the boss or bosses; therefore, anti gun.

As time goes on, I've also noticed that new LEOs are not shooters like the old timers were. So the whole field may be changing. I sometimes wonder if hiring practises, profiles and "affirmative action" helps this trend? That's a can of worms for another time.
 
The thing to keep in mind is that the average cop on the street knows what works.

And the average administrator behind a desk is more concerned with sending the message that "police can protect you, so you don't need to be concerned with that."
 
Keep in mind, the street officer and the brass behind the nice desk and leather chair are not the same. My experience has been, once promoted, you are given a gold badge and your balls are removed. Street cops would love to see citizens shoot their perps (felonies of course). They cannot be everywhere to protect and serve the common citizen. So, IMO, the higher brass are telling the state government officials what they think they want and need to hear.

Retired LEO
 
Another FORMER LEO ringing in-

I definitely believe in private ownership and licensed carry
by individuals who are not from LEO circles!:D

Law abiding citizens should always have the right
to self protection from the criminal element that grips our
nation.:)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Edward, most cops on here won't touch that. If they say they wouldn't have a problem with 2A ccw, they might get in trouble with their superiors; even if those superiors are equally pro-gun, it might invoke the ire of other LEOs here. If they say they would have a problem with 2A ccw, the rabid RKBA people would have them for breakfast, and the result would be a toasty flame fest that would be closed down rather quickly.
 
Back when I was planning on being a police officer I applied to a few different departments and went through their hiring processes. I passed the psych exams for all but one of the departments. That other department shrink seemed fixated on the fact that I had a CCW and that I owned a pile of "assault rifles". I was failed from that department because of my "hyper aggresiveness and inability to handle losing." :)

During one of the other interviews for a Sheriff's department, I was a bit nervous about my CCW, so when they were interviewing me I was hesitant to talk about it. The interviewer put me at ease by telling me that he was a CCW instructor himself, and that that other department was run by PC sissies and I should have applied with them first. :p

So I guess it depends a lot on the department. I am acquainted with one of the firearms instructors from that first department, and he has been extreamly frustrated by the quality of new recruits that he has gotten over the last few years.
 
I work patrol. One of my sergeants was out on a car burglary call when the complainant stated, "I might get in trouble for this, but you need to know that I shot at them (the suspects.)" Ends up, he shot 8-10 times at 3-4 suspects breaking into his vehicle and running off w/ his stuff. My sergeant looks oddly at him, and replies, "you need to go the the range and practice!"

8-10 rounds and not a single hit. Pathetic, but perfectly legal here in Texas.

I encourage firearm ownership, readiness, and carry all the time when speaking to the public. I find them unwilling to believe they can do what I tell them legally and without worry of negative outcomes. Oh well... I live amongst sheeple...
 
Correia: The psycho-babble-ologists that are sent to interview cops or applicants are a scourge on the earth! I was a reserve for over 20 years in a resonably peaceful small town in Northern California. We had a Bar-B-Que one evening and one of thses poor excuses for a human being was there. He bragged about how many "bad" cops he was able to keep from being hired through his "interviewing/interrogation" techniques.

He was wearing a polyester outfit with white shoes iirc. I thought he was a bit light in the loafers IMO.

People like that need to go to the range and fire the same course we do, maybe they would have a different opinion after that.

:)
 
The kind of person who goes to all that trouble and expense to get a license ain't the kind of person you need worry about with a gun.
I certainly don’t disagree with your overall point but this particular belief is not born out but what I’ve seen or been told. In fact, just two or so weeks ago there was a drug seizure of over 1000 pounds where the driver of the scout vehicle not only had his CHL but was carrying. Of course this type of setup is more drug smuggling (duh) and less the average “Joe Blow on the streetâ€, nevertheless, having a CHL doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
 
You will find that most of us Law Enforcement Officers are Pro-Gun. The few that usually speak out as anti-gun are usually a Chief or Sheriff and might do so for some type of political agenda. I personally have always supported firearms ownership and the legal right to carry for law abiding citizens. In Minnesota we have had carry permits long before May 2003. When the new shall issue law went into effect on May 28, 2003 it did not change the way I do my job, nor should it. It is my job to uphold and enforce laws when applicable and to be impartial when doing such. Most that attend our carry permit courses find it surprising that Cops are so gun friendly, as many people have a misconception that we are anti-gun. We Cops like the good law abiding Citizens, after all we Cops are Citizens too.

Stay Safe,
Sully
Chief Instructor
www.thedefensiveedge.com
 
I put in 11 years with a small PD in Kentucky. At that time there was no CCW permit in KY. I came across a few who were carrying concealed.

As for what I did? I had a chief who taught me that an officers greatest power is the power of discretion.

I used it often and I hope wisely.
 
Having been a municipal police officer, County Deputy Sheriff, and now a Fed I can say without a doubt that *most* of the people I work with support the RKBA. There are a few who don't want civilians to own what has now been incorrectly called "Assault Weapons" (semi auto's such as AR15's) but these guys are in the clear minority.

Personnaly I'm not worried about the law abiding person who takes the time to go out and get a CCW.

M.
 
CCW documentation differs widely from state to state. In my state it's just a piece of paper without a photo on it. I could make them on my home computer very easy. Their is no CCW info attached to a vehicle registration or DL info. The only way to know if it's real is to take it at face value, ask for Photo ID, and check later. I suspect that's the case in some other states and officers may be cautious until they know.
 
Here is AZ we have it pretty good, so if you ask about carrying without a permit or official permission, we can smile, and say, :Of course - AZ law allows for open carry without any of that!" We have acouple of officers who believe guns should be outlawed, except for them, of course, and have absolutely no problem with thier contradictory outlook, even after we try to get them to see the light. Fortunately, they are in the minority.

BTW, to set the record straight before someone accuses me of misrepresenting myself, I am an Arizona Corrections Officer, not a regular street cop.:cool:
 
In fact, just two or so weeks ago there was a drug seizure of over 1000 pounds where the driver of the scout vehicle not only had his CHL but was carrying.
OK, so that is ONE example of a CHL holder committing a (non-violent) crime. That doesn't refute my point at all.
 
CCW.

No problem here with law abiding person carrying ccw. The more the better.

As far as finding someone carrying without a permit.

I would have to do some futher record checks, ie.. [CH] . As long as the person was straight up with me.. not a problem, start lying to me for any reason = go to jail.

12-34hom.
 
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