Question for those with CHL - Capacity

[ConstitutionCowboy]

In full regalia, I've got 3 guns with a total of 63 rounds of ammo on my person. The most in one gun is 8 rounds(6 or 7 per mag and one in the chamber to start). My theory is that once I have to return fire, the antagonist is going to have to run for cover or make himself a standing target. I'll either gain time for reloads from cover or have an easy target. The secret, however, is to make the first one, two, or three shots count.

It will be the same for multiple antagonists, except that running for cover will be your first priority.

Even with 63 rounds, if you engage in volley fire, you'll run out way too soon, so make each shot count. Hopefully, the antagonist(s) will run out of ammo before you do. Chances are, they will not take the time to aim, will blast away, and empty a magazine or cylinder to your one shot.

Going home with 60 or 61 rounds left would be good, but if it takes more, don't be embarrassed. It could be that your antagonist wouldn't stand still, or the wind kicked up, or he found cover. Just make sure you can't blame it on a lack of practice or training.

Woody

 

[The_Shootist]

Really though - you're less likely to encounter (if you even have to PULL your carry piece in your lifetime) a spree killer/terrorist cell than 2-3 'bangers looking for your watch and wallet. In those cases a G19 with with standard caps would be a better choice than a 642. Both capacity wise and even ease of aiming.

But in the pretty tame low crime orbits in my neighborhood running errands, its the 642 (usually without a S/L) that goes in the pocket. Anything outside of the norm then the G19 and one mag comes for the ride.

 

[suzukisam]

NavyLT-

I understand and agree, and in that situation I would get out as fast as possible, at least given that I can. You mentioned your experience in the service, so you know that every situation has to be looked at and assessed. I know that there would be situations that I would run if I could, but my intention is not to ever leave a situation where something like what happened to that nine year old little girl in AZ could be prevented, that's all. You came off as F everyone but you, cause they could be carrying if they wanted. To a degree that is true, I'm not batman nor do I even want to be, but women and children that are about to be shot, outside of a few exceptionally hairy situations I don't plan on running away, If there are people that I could help. Just like the example you gave there are many where one courageous person could have saved many

 

[NavyLCDR]

but women and children that are about to be shot, outside of a few exceptionally hairy situations I don't plan on running away

And what about the woman and child with you? Your wife and your child? More likely than not the best chance of survival for them is escape. I'm not going to put them at risk to be a hero for someone I have never met. I would rather be a hero in their eyes for facilitating their escape and survival.

What if Joe Zamudio who showed up at Tucson had not exercised restraint? What if he just shot at the first person he saw holding a gun?

 

[Vinny]

I don't get what those extraordinary incidents have to do with the question of why anyone would think about capacity of the firearm they're carrying?

I wanted to ask those with CHL carrying a CCW with less than 10 rounds how they arrived at their decision when there are attackers out there carrying about twice their capacity.

I am thankful that the replies have included those who won't carry less than 10 rounds and the myriad explanations, including yours.

I thank everyone for their contribution.

 

[jfdavis58]

When you use aberration as the basis for discussion you get nothing useful.


Lots of posturing, lots more ego and mostly a ton of crappola.


Frankly such tactics are beneath the standards to which civilized folks adhere-i.e. they are the tactics of the drive-by media and the anti-gun knuckleheads.

The vast majority of lethal force on force (gun) situations end with only a few rounds expended-even in the rare home invasion scenario. The ability to place rapid accurate fire is a great persuasion tool often ending the encounter without much wasted ammo.





I practice a lot; I carry enough.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I wanted to ask those with CHL carrying a CCW with less than 10 rounds how they arrived at their decision when there are attackers out there carrying about twice their capacity.

To me it's pretty simple. What difference does it make how many rounds one attacker has? He's still just one target. How many rounds do I need to put in one target?

Thousands of people die every year in house fires. Does that mean that I should have a 1 1/2" fire hose reel with a 200gpm pump and backup power supply at my house?

If you carry 30, 40, 50 rounds of ammo, I don't care. If you do have a 1 1/2" fire hose at your house, I don't care. My decision to carry 11 rounds of .45 ACP is based on the vast likelihood that I will be facing one or two assailants. I only have a smoke detector and a small fire extinguisher in my house. Hopefully, I won't ever have to shoot back at Billy Bob CCW praying and spraying at someone, but if bullets are coming my way, I more than likely will shoot back. That's the same reason my .45 stays loaded in the holster on my hip at the gun range.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I wanted to ask those with CHL carrying a CCW with less than 10 rounds how they arrived at their decision when there are attackers out there carrying about twice their capacity.

Because he's going to be shooting at multiple people, I'm only going to be shooting at 1.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Because he's going to be shooting at multiple people, I'm only going to be shooting at 1.

Which brings up another point: Even if the attacker is using a full auto, his barrel can only be pointed in one direction at a time. Use that fact to your advantage.

Woody

 

[suzukisam]

we're arguing two different points. I never said don't use restraint I agreed with you that every situation requires something different. I can come up with some situation too.. zamudio did the right thing.. though even bringing him up has nothing to do with our discussion, and if it does it proves your theory cowardice, because zamudio ran into the fight from over 100 yrds away... he didn't turn and say screw the victims getting shot! no one cares if you only want two bullets in your gun, I just like a full size gun and lots of ammo, because unlike you my crystal ball is fuzzy, and I can't see what I will need. and you can make some snarky comments about carrying a bazooka if you want, but there is good logic in a full size auto with a backup mag.. and I suspect you agree, but won't say so....

 

[gripper]

Whether I carry(ied) a 5 shot .38/.357, autos with capacities from 7 to 19 or a one or two shot hideout,the only "comfort"I was/am concerned with is my ability to be quick and accurate.
Capacity is not indicative of intentions(good or evil).
There is NO need to justify a truly personal choice beyond one's competence with the gear.Hell,I have felt C-R eligible cold war relics(toks,mMaks and CZs )as useful to my recreation/work/safety as a "modern double stack auto".My company issued gear was a .38special GP100-mu only objection was their choice of bullet weights(light for caliber)....we shot enough to be accurate and quick,though.....
To the OP:I will not question your motives,neither would I question anyone's choice in their own gear-pick what you like,ssme as music,food,wine or books-its all on you.

 

[youngda9]

Easy plan to make behind the computer keyboard.

Tis the noble path. Your plan is the easiest to make, actually.

A plan which has great chances of ending up like this

Or you could be a hero and save many lives like Jeanne Assam. We could do tit and tat for ever...it proves nothing.

Getting your loved ones to safety is important...and if that is the most important thing you care about then that is what you'll live with. You wife and child will be alive. They will be happy that you rushed them to safety. They will also know that daddy could have helped all of those people that were sloghtered but he chose not to. You will also know that, and have to try and live with that knowledge as well. But it may not matter to you, as you imply by your posts...and that's fine for you, perhaps. I don't think we are going to convince each other to change their minds...we'll agree to disagree. What we decide to do with our lives is a decision that we must each make for ourselves.

navyLT..... Are you offended by those of us who hope to be able to help others and fight, if God forbid the worst should happen. If I saw a small child in the road and a semi was coming I wouldn't turn away from that either? If you don't have a "plan" ahead of time, about many aspects of ccw, then you'll be in trouble trying to make those decisions under pressure. Yes you are very correct it's easy to say anything behind a computer, I might pee my pants and run, I hope I don't. I hope I never have to find out, But my plan is to fight if an innocent is in trouble and I have the means to stop it.

+1, Excellent post suzukisam. You definetly plan to be courageous and strong under fire...yet realize that we are all fallable and do not know how we truely will react once SHTF. bravo.

 

[mcdonl]

Because he's going to be shooting at multiple people, I'm only going to be shooting at 1.

This was the same argument that I made. But, the only thing to consider is that after the first shot you take... if able... I think he will reconsider his targets and narrow the selection to the one shooting back.

Just saying.

 

[BBQLS1]

I generally carry a 5 shot snub and don't have a problem with it. I don't anticipate more than a couple of people I may have to defend myself against. I do carry two speed loaders as they don't take up much room or add much weight.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I generally carry a 5 shot snub and don't have a problem with it. I don't anticipate more than a couple of people I may have to defend myself against. I do carry two speed loaders as they don't take up much room or add much weight.

Read about what can be done with a .38 snub nose revolver here. I've met this guy and he is for real.

Woody

 

[dirtykid]

My SP101 sits on my hip with a speed-strip in my pocket for a total of 10-rounds,, im hoping IF it ever happens i can finish the fight in 3-rounds or less,, as it is a self-defense situation and i will have been pushed into a corner with no escape possible,,

 

[NavyLCDR]

Getting your loved ones to safety is important...and if that is the most important thing you care about then that is what you'll live with. You wife and child will be alive. They will be happy that you rushed them to safety. They will also know that daddy could have helped all of those people that were sloghtered but he chose not to. You will also know that, and have to try and live with that knowledge as well. But it may not matter to you, as you imply by your posts...and that's fine for you, perhaps. I don't think we are going to convince each other to change their minds...we'll agree to disagree. What we decide to do with our lives is a decision that we must each make for ourselves.

Be sure and save this post and show it to your wife and kids when you have them. They will be happy to know that you plan on putting the safety and concern for strangers above safety and concern for them.

 

[youngda9]

Be sure and save this post and show it to your wife and kids when you have them. They will be happy to know that you plan on putting the safety and concern for strangers above safety and concern for them.

You make the call:

navyLT is/was a hero. He did such a brave and selfless act to help his fellow man. I am so proud of him.

OR

navyLT was a coward and let all of those people get killed when he could have done something about it. He pre-planned to flee the scene and accomplished his goal. But he's alive with us(or maybe he was shot in the back), thanks to his quick thinking and track shoes. We've lost a lot of respect for him, and he's haunted by all of the dead souls that he could have helped. The bottle numbs the pain for him these days.

We each have a choice to make...I pray we never are put in such a situation.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here's the deal. I sacrifice my life/don't sacrifice my life... that's a choice I make. I am not going to take the chance of sacrificing my wife and my daughter's lives in order to save strangers who have made the decision themselves to not carry a firearm to protect themselves with. That's just plain unconscienable to think of.

You can call me a coward or whatever you want to. Maybe one day when you get the joy of holding your baby in your arms, you might man up to the responsibility of taking care of your family instead of being concerned about playing hero and getting your picture in the paper.

 

[suzukisam]

Navylt- you are really beating this "family" Drum to death...you originally made blanket statement that you only need a few rounds cause everyone else is SOL! Now your justifying what you said by saying you wanna save your family. We will all take care of our wife and kids first, and then we will do what we can for others....You will run...that is what you said.. some of us hope we have the selfless courage to do as you said Zamudio did! And to prepare for that we are deciding ahead of time that we will....you are deciding to get out, and that's fine. But don't be upset that given the chance we would defend the innocent..why does this bother you..

 

[youngda9]

Here's the deal. I sacrifice my life/don't sacrifice my life... that's a choice I make.

Clearly you have it in your head that if you attempt to help your fellow man that you WILL DIE...not necessarily so. you've clearly already programmed your self to run and believe that fighting back for the greater good will result in your death. Too many like yourself will embolden mass shooters.

Maybe one day when you get the joy of holding your baby in your arms, you might man up to the responsibility of taking care of your family

Clearly you know me...wrong on both accounts speedy.

instead of being concerned about playing hero and getting your picture in the paper.

I never mentioned that being in the paper was a motivation, wrong yet again. But go ahead and try to make a good deed into something done out of an impure motivation if that helps you feel better about your choice.

Navylt- you are really beating this "family" Drum to death...you originally made blanket statement that you only need a few rounds cause everyone else is SOL! Now your justifying what you said by saying you wanna save your family..

Running does not require rounds. Go back to post #3 where NavyLT told the joke about shooting his fellow man to "ensure that I can run faster than you"...seems ironic now.

We will all take care of our wife and kids first, and then we will do what we can for others....You will run...that is what you said.. some of us hope we have the selfless courage to do as you said Zamudio did! And to prepare for that we are deciding ahead of time that we will....you are deciding to get out, and that's fine. But don't be upset that given the chance we would defend the innocent..why does this bother you..

It clearly bothers him because, as you put it "some of us hope we have the selfless courage to do as Zamudio did" NavyLT does not hope to have that, knows he doesn't. He has said he is not willing to attempt his fellow man who has, in his words "CHOSEN to not protect themselves". And that's fine...we need people to get out of the way so they are not in the line of fire for the nobel ones trying to protect their our fellow man...and their family at the same time.

NavyLT does not understand that their are people in this world, such as soldiers, firemen, policemen, etc. that do their best and yes put their life on the line for their fellow man EVERY DAY. These people run into the flames and towards the gunfire to help others. All the wile having a family to come home to at night. It's these sort of selfless people that are truly everyday heros in our society. The Zamudio's of the world are hero's waiting in the wings should the situation present itself...the everyday "Joe" who has courage and keeps a level head under pressure. We should all aspire and hope to do the same should the situation present itself. That is why we carry, that is why we train.

 

[ms6852]

I carry for the purpose of self defense against the one psycho nut or the armed robber. I am not concerned about the possibility of several attackers like 6 or 7 or more just the one like mention above in the multiple slaying or the junky looking for quick cash. So in my opinion the 7rds my 1911 carry or the 5 rds the 642 S&W provide is more than enough. I will always run from several attackers but if it is not possible, still what I carry is enough. I know I can always use their guns if it ever escalates to that point. I always practice shooting at 50 yards and 100 with all my handguns. I know I can hit at those distances consistantly but most shooters cannot hit beyond 25 feet.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Navylt- you are really beating this "family" Drum to death...you originally made blanket statement that you only need a few rounds cause everyone else is SOL! Now your justifying what you said by saying you wanna save your family. We will all take care of our wife and kids first, and then we will do what we can for others....You will run...that is what you said.. some of us hope we have the selfless courage to do as you said Zamudio did! And to prepare for that we are deciding ahead of time that we will....you are deciding to get out, and that's fine. But don't be upset that given the chance we would defend the innocent..why does this bother you..

Both you and youngda9 are taking things that I have said and twisting it to make me, and those like me look like a cowards and to thump on your chests.

1. My first priority is going to be to get my family to safety.

2. I am not going to hide behind a chair or a wall and spray bullets into a crowd in the hopes of hitting the shooter.

3. If I have a clear shot at an attacker, and my family is safe, I will do what it takes to eliminate the threat, regardless of if the attacker is shooting at me or some other person.

I get the clear feeling that there are some people who need to put down their Wii Zappers playing Call of Duty, leave the cookies and milk their moms' made for them, come out of the basement from behind the computer screen, and into the real world.

When you've accumulated 7 years of sea duty time on submarines and aircraft carriers; when you've been 400+ feet underwater in a submarine reading teletype radio messages about fellow submariners on the Kursk, sitting on the bottom of the ocean; when you've been in a dessert in 140 heat living out of a tent; when you've spent the night on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier recoverying and launching jets; when you've worked 36 hours straight to get a submarine ready to go to sea because a hurricane is coming and then have the first 6 hours watch; when you have a broken vertebrae in your back from hand-to-hand combat training, but you get on a plan to go to Iraq anyway because it is your duty; when you're in a building in Baghdad Iraq as it shakes from the bomb going off a few hundred yards away; ... let me know. Then we'll have a man-to-man talk.

------

US Army National Guard - enlisted - 1984
US Navy Active Duty - enlisted - 1988
US Navy Active Duty - officer - 2001
US Navy Retired - maybe if all goes well - 2014.

 

[suzukisam]

I assume that's a video game! Sounds like you know a lot more about them than me, I'm not going to speak about your service because I have respect for everyone who wears our uniform. And I will assume that you are a courageous person for having served... but that is beside the point you accused anyone who is willing to stand against an attacker a show boat, and or a liar because were behind a computer. Frankly sir some of us are sick and tired of rampant violence from whiny snifling cowards such as the sissy a VA Tech, and yes I would run back into a mall, school, Or Safeway parking lot if people were being harmed. Society has a responsibility to their fellow man to protect one another. "All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". Again you are trying to argue with us that this is a poor theory. Maybe a few more of these jerks will meet a responsible law abiding ccw holder with courage and this will stop. Beacause as much respect as I have for LEO's bad guys seem to pick places where the cops aren't.

Oh and your spray and pray comments are junior high at best...no one on here is advocating that. And a large capacity of ammo means you have more than enough, it doesn't mean you have to use it.. nor that you may fire more than one.....but you might.. again gang bangers run in packs, we recently had a young man in our town killed by six or more thugs that surrounded him...they "just wanted to kill someone".

 

[youngda9]

Both you and youngda9 are taking things that I have said and twisting it to make me, and those like me look like a cowards and to thump on your chests.
...
When you've accumulated thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump. Then we'll have a man-to-man talk.

Now who is thumping their chest?

I am not going to hide behind a chair or a wall and spray bullets into a crowd in the hopes of hitting the shooter.

We know, you'll be running in the other direction. You've been the one who keeps bringing up the spray and pray philosophy...you can stop now, nobody else is talking about that. I did a search for "spray" and you've written it in 2 different posts (#57 & #73) already, nobody else is saying they would do such a thing.

All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

Excellent post...I believe this is exactly what we are getting at. Sums it up in one clear sentence.