question is the brass revolvers worth having fixed up?

[Driftwood Johnson]

I don't believe anybody said the brass frames are either inherently or ONLY wallhangers, just those that have stretched & become un-shootable are wallhangers.
I've seen it happen, as I've said several times.
I've retired mine because it has great sentimental value & I want to keep it functional, even if it never fires another shot.

Howdy Again

Me too. My brass framed 'Navy' was the first revolver I ever bought, so it has sentimental value. But the frame is stretched and I am not going to sink the money into it required to make it a shooter again. I have lots of other revolvers to shoot.

As I said before, back in 1968 nobody was warning us against shooting heavy loads in brass framed revolvers.

Bronze has a vastly different color from brass. So it's a shame that the current replicas use brass instead of something closer to the proper bronze "gunmetal" alloy. I think the look of such a gun would be quite amazing. And at least in a .36 size chambering would not need to be limited to lighter powder loads.

For whatever reason, the original Henry and Winchester Model 1866 rifles have usually been referred to by gun writers as brass framed, even though it is now common knowledge that their frames were made of gunmetal, a form of bronze. I guess once the term 'brass framed' became commonly used there was no changing it. I have seen several original Henry rifles, and I have handled a few. However since they were all over 150 years old, and had 150 years worth of tarnish on them, it is difficult to picture what they looked like when they were new. I have Les Quick's book about the Henry Rifle open right now, it has spectacular color photos. The best preserved examples look yellow, although most are darker than brass usually is.

 

[col.lemat]

Old Fluff, Good point on the files. Probably missed by most. Learned it years ago when I apprenticed in my dads shop. Hacksaw blades where I learned my lesson. I apply it to any cutters now.
COL LeMat

 

[midland man]

so I hate to sound dumb but I must ask how do I know which files are for brass? thanks!

 

[col.lemat]

Any new file or hack saw blade that has not been used on iron or steel. Mark or paint a section that is not a cutting area so it can be identified or store from the other tools. You can go from brass/bronze to cutting steel but not from steel to brass. I busted a sweat and made little progress with the hack saw, asked dad why it was so hard to cut for a soft metal. He asked wear did you get the hack saw from. Over there next to the other one. Explained the difference, one for iron one for brass only.
Extra tip: bet someone and give him a blade that has cut steel and have a race cutting two inch brass. Only thing be sure that you have the brass only saw.

 

[StrawHat]

What about the story that the CSA melted some church bells for the frames. Were bells cast of gunmetal?

Kevin

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

What about the story that the CSA melted some church bells for the frames. Were bells cast of gunmetal?

Howdy Again

Large bells such as church bells have usually been cast from a bronze alloy known as, wait for it, Bell Metal. I have seen Bell Metal described as 80% copper and 20% tin. I have also seen it described as 78% copper and 22% tin. This combination of elements is best for producing a bell that rings well and does not shatter from repeated smacking of the clapper.

And Bell Metal was often used for cannons many years ago.

I have no idea if the story of melting church bells for firearms in the Confederacy is true, but it seems to me to at least be plausible.

 

[StrawHat]

Bell Metal for bells and Gun Metal for guns? You sure it wasn't the other way around?!

Thanks for the info, I have forgotten so much.

Kevin

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Quote; "The brass frame revolvers are usually intended for display, with modest or no shooting. Thus they are made to a lower price point and less attention to internal lockwork with this under consideration."

Is this a fact? Thought these were reproductions of Confederate pieces. Don't have one but am still in process of adding to collection. (Does that ever end)

The only Confederate revolvers that were made with brass (actually gunmetal on the originals) were the Griswold and Gunnison and the Spiller and Burr. Uberti no longer makes one but Pietta does offer a fairly accurate reproduction of the G&G. I'm not sure if the Spiller and Burr replicas are still available or not.

All those models like the brass frame Remington and Colts that Cabelas sells with the description the south produced them in brass is just a down right marketing lie. I have even left feedback they refuse to publish and have discussed this with Cabelas marketing people. Their stance is the guns just sell well because of the price point and they don't care if they are misleading their customers with the inaccurate product descriptions.

If you plan to add to your collection and want a Confederate piece then buy the Griswold and Gunnison 36 caliber or the Spiller and Burr if you can find one. Don't buy in to Cabelas false advertising about the Confederate models.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

You can still find spiller and burrs new, dixie gun works and midwayusa have them. I was looking at a cabelas catalog with the 'confederate navy .44' and this is what it said:

Although designated as a Navy revolver, the Model 1851 saw heavy use among Army officers who favored .44-caliber firepower. It was constructed of brass because of the South's limited supply of steel.


That is completely ridiculous. Either Pietta is ignorant, or its a marketing lie, like you said Cowhide Cliff.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

The reason it was called the Navy model is because of the naval battle scene engraved on the cylinder. The engraving celebrated the victory of the Texas Navy at the battle of Campeche in 1843. Navy revolvers were probably carried by far more soldiers and civilians than sailors.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Blackpowdershooter44, Oh I've called Cabelas out on it and they just don't seem to care or think I don't know what I'm talking about.

Read their description for the brass frame Remington, its the worse of all and just flat out tells a lie. Whether intentional or not it is worded to mislead someone not familiar with Civil War era firearms. It specifically says do to lack of raw materials the south was forced to reproduce the 1858 Remington with a brass frame. That never happened. The only Remingtons ever produced with a gun metal or brass frame (not sure which was used) was the .31 baby Remington and that was by Remington themselves and in very low numbers and not for the Confederacy.

The Italians have taken a lot of liberty in making fantasy guns that never were and using misleading and inaccurate historical claims in their descriptions to market them. All of the brass frames that never were, the 44 caliber Colt Navy's, etc.

 

[kBob]

My understanding was that the Naval Battle pictured was part of the Yucatan attempt to sepperate from Mexico, possibly with the goal of Joining the US.

The Texas Navy was basically rented out to the Yucatan rebels and basically lost the battle and the attempt of making a free Yucatan.

One wonders how the War Between the States may have turned out with a 14th Confederate star or with an additional Union base of operations across the Gulf.

People did and do refer to .36 caliber non colt guns as being "in the Navy caliber" but that is a reference to the caliber of the 1851 rather than the Navy exclusivily buying .36 revolvers as they did not. Well a few were made in the weird .34 and .40 caliber for various reason by Colt but not offered for general sale.

-kBob

 

[midland man]

well I'll soon own a 51 colt next as I am interested in tryin this pistol out for my collection!

 

[44 Dave]

ALL bp revolvers are worth it but open tops suffer (beat them selves to death) most from not being set up correctly. Really like my brass project revolver and will miss it when it goes home.