Question on AKs, SARs

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whm1974

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Ok from previous threads some of you know that I want an AR-15.
Well because of the price I'm also looking at AK-47/SAR-1.

The price is right on AK/SAR-1 and ammo is reasable priced. so those
of you that have these rifles what are the good and bad points on them?

I would like to have both an AR-15 and AK-47 if I can afford to do so.

Bill MEadows
 
I have both AR's and AK's. The AR's make a better target shooter, but for everything else, I like my AK's a lot better. If your looking at the SAR's, I think its best to get a hands on look and make sure everything is straight. Other than maybe some trigger slap, which really isnt to hard to take care of if your handy, you should be fine. If you take the time to learn the AK, you will see that its really not as bad as some will tell you it is. Everyone should at least have one and know how to work it regardless of what you ultimately choose. The more you know and understand about as many as you can, the better off you will be.

I think once you get one, it wont be your only one for long. :)
 
If you take the time to learn the AK, you will see that its really not as bad as some will tell you it is

I had a friend whose uncle(back in '80s) had a finlandish made AK-47 back when
these things cost around $1000. The uncle could shoot a 3" group at 100 yards.
Of course for $1000... It better!

How much customizing will I need to do on a SAR-1? I'm already thinking about
replacing the sights if I get one. Anything else?

Bill Meadows
 
Another recommendation for the AK-47 net site. Go to Romanian AK's & look at the sticky posts. All the information you will need. The SAR-1 is a bit rough around the edges, but quite functional. Highly recommend this rifle. Seem to be going for around $375 most places. The WASR 10 converted hi-caps are in the low $3's. Go for the SAR-1 if you can find one.
 
Good points:

-Reliability.
-EZ to clean.
-Light & handy.
-Cheap ammo
-Gazillion accessories if you like to customize.

Bad Points:
-Have to make sure you get a good individual. Century makes good ones and bad ones. Be willing to return it or tweak it if you get a bad one. Canted sights is an automatic return.

Accuracy can be good or bad. I have a SAR-3 and I can shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with it. But only when the barrel is cold. For 4-6 shots. After the barrel warms, its 4-6" groups.
 
I have both a SAR1 and a WASR 10. My WASR has nicer wood, the metal finish is better, the sights were straight and it had no trigger slap. It also shoots better than my SAR. Actually, of the four I own, its number two behind my Krebs AK103K for accuracy, and will consistantly shoot into 4" at 100 yards. I understand that some dont like that it doesnt have the "dimples" at the mag well, and that some may not have had the conversion done well, but mine has no trouble with any of my mags and they all seem to fit solid with no wobble and go in and out without trouble. I wouldnt hesitate to get another. I would still suggest you look at the rifle before you buy it though. If possible, try a mag in the gun to make sure its not one of the ones that the "drunk chimps" did.
 
I have a fairly recent SAR-1 (purchased last summer). Fit and finish is pretty good, though some of the internal parts have machining marks in non-critical areas. Mine has NO trigger slap, and in fact the trigger pull is considerably smoother than the one on my mini-14 Ranch. Best 5-shot group with my SAR so far is 0.5" wide by 1.25" high at 50 yd with Norinco lead-core FMJ, shooting from sandbags and using a POSP 4x24 scope, with the barrel moderately warm.

whm1974, I'm sort of in the same boat as you since I've always wanted an AR (and fell in love with a friend's 16" Dissapator), but because my 4-year-old son is a cardiac patient with tons of medical bills, there's no way I could afford to shell out $800 to $1200 for a rifle anytime in the next few years. So, I "settled" for a nice SAR-1 from a local gun shop for $379, and have ended up enjoying it at least as much as I would have enjoyed an AR. The SAR is rock-solid reliable, fun to shoot, and has all the the "mystique" (for we Westerners) that goes along with an AK-pattern rifle. Also, unlike my friend's AR, the SAR doesn't go "sproingg!" in your ear every time you shoot it.

I'm told that of all the AK-style rifles on the market, the SAR-1 probably looks and feels most like the "original" AKM. If you like .223-like ballistics, you might also consider a SAR-2 or SAR-3 (5.45x39 and .223, respectively).
 
Also, unlike my friend's AR, the SAR doesn't go "sproingg!" in your ear every time you shoot it.

I love that sound. When your fire your rifle and you suddenly hear no sproingg sound, and the recoil "pattern" is different, it means your rifle is empty.

That sound = alarm
 
I have a Bushmaster AR-15 and an SAR-1. In my opinion the AR is a much better rifle, but you will pay at least twice as much for a factory built AR as you will for the SAR-1.

Some good and bad points of each.....

The AR has last round bolt hold open, and the SAR doesn't. With the SAR you can't tell that you are empty until you pull the trigger and it goes "click" instead of "boom" unless you were counting rounds.

The SAR will still jam, no matter what people say. Mine has jammed at least 3 times with Wolf ammo and regular cleanings. My AR jammed a few times when it was new, but it has been more reliable than the SAR recently, meaning no jams.

The SAR is much cheaper to shoot, and you will be less concerned about beating it up.

Some SARs are pretty ugly. I ended up replacing the furniture because it was not even worth refinishing. The stocks were just crapola. The machine work on the AR will be much better also.

I ended up replacing the trigger group on my SAR because of trigger slap. I tried some of the home remedies but they didn't fix the problem in my case. AR, no problem with the trigger.

I think AR sights are much better also. There is no real windage adjustment on the stock SAR sights and the machining is pretty crummy.

The final decision on what to get is obviously up to you. I prefer the AR, but I think I like my FAL better than either the AR-15 or SAR-1. Good luck with whichever you choose.

Jer..
 
I love that sound. When your fire your rifle and you suddenly hear no sproingg sound, and the recoil "pattern" is different, it means your rifle is empty.

That sound = alarm

We used to just throw some tracers in the magazine first. When you shot consecutive tracers you know that your mag is almost empty.
 
Hey Bill,

I have both a Colt AR with a 16 in barrel and fixed A2 stock and sights AND a SAR-1 7.62x39 with a Kobra sight, Red Star trigger group, KVar synthetic stock and a mounted light.

Colt: Upside: accurate, reliable (for me), exellent ergonomics, lightweight, and prolific aftermarket items available. Downside: Requires regular cleaning, not as easy to break down and clean as the AK, reliable 30 rd mags more difficult to find/afford than AK's.

SAR: Upside: Very reliable, easy to maintain and clean, tough as nails, cheap ammo/reliable mags, and damn fun to shoot. Downside: Intrinsically not as accurate, poor iron sights (Kobra), trigger slap (Red star trigger group), buttstock may be too short for some (KVar stock), a little heavier, and ergonomics are poor.

But right now, I find myself shooting the SAR more. You can't beat 1000 rds for less than a $100 for all day fun. However, if the AWB falls in Sept., I will probably trick out the Colt and shoot that all day.

I hope this helps.
 
Some days I wonder if I wouldn't have been happier if I had bought 2-3 AK's instead of my Bushy Dissapator. I overpaid for the Bushy so I could have probably gotten AK's for it.

I do have an Egyptian Maadi though... which seems to be the WORST possible AK you can buy from what I gather on the 'net. Oh well, I kinda like mine. It sure is fun!

Personally, the AK pro column reads:
Cheap mags... and they just WORK. They're solid. You buy an AK mag with a good solid spring and it's going to work. That isn't the case with my AR mags. Ironically the chepest ones I bought (30 bucks for 3 mags and a pouch) are the only ones that work right! My AK mags cost me $8. Zero problems.

Cheap ammo! Granted, you can get .223 from Ammoman.com for a good price that's still "cheap enough" for me but $75 bucks for 1,000 rounds of Wolf JHP at the gun show? Sign me up. Walked out with a case of that the day I got my Maadi. FYI: Maadi ($300 used) + 1k Ammo + 2 30 rounds mags == Out the door for $410 bucks or so. That was nice.

"Accurate enough" for me. I know the AK isn't an accurate gun so I don't strive for perfect groups. Given that I probably need new glasses I typically shoot rifles at 50 yards. Yes, this is horrible, but I can keep a decent small cluster with it. While at the range recently with a guy shooting a front-stuffer we walked out to check our targets and he takes a gander at mine and says "Well, much smaller than a man's chest. Good enough!" My sentiments exactly. No qualms about it that's the real reason behind the weapon. Yes, I use it for fun and recreation but if ever need be it's "good enough" for whatever else. Given proper optics on my face I'm sure it'll do 4-6" groups at 100 yards in my hands.

Fun. It's just plain fun to shoot for the most part. That's a combination of the cheap ammo, good mags, and zero worries about it being "fussy" at the firing line.

It's good wood on it -- which seems to make it less "dangerous" to people that know an AK is naturally "evil." You're more likely to get Bubba the Hunter to give your AK a go at the firing line (and keep him from thinking that "assault rifles" are evil) than you are witih an AR. Just my opinion though!

Breakdown and cleaning is mind numblingly simple. I timed myself once I can tear down and put one back together in 45 seconds with my eyes closed.

While I don't hunt I understand 7.62x39mm is comparable to 30.30 which puts it into the realm of being quite capable of putting down a white tailed deer. Yes .223 is considered (by some) good enough for deer but that's not always legal. If ever asked for a "loaner" by somebody for a young kid on his first deer hunt I'd have no qualms about lending out the AK. It's reliable, it's simple, it's light, and "accurate enough" out to 100 yards with a decent sized round.

Cons:

My Maadi has horrid trigger slap. Not noticable usually, but when you're out there in 5 degree Michigan weather you notice it MUCH more. This could be fixed but I don't really see the point in it. I might someday if I get bored. For those of you who don't know what near-zero or sub-zero temperature do to your fingers: it tends to make them very senstive in a very numb way. Stick you r hands in a bowl of ice for 2-3-5 minutes then run them in hot water. THAT's what trigger slap at 5 degrees feels like!

Not as accurate as my Bushy. This might just be a sight problem though as I find the A2 style sights much better than the AK's style. I find no logical reason for this -- it just has to be something to do with how my brain functions in aiming. Given the range I shoot at I should be getting MUCH better groups with the AK but I just don't.

Also, I like not having that "sproooiing!" in my ear. That sound makes me feel like I'm shooting a friggen toy :).

I like both the AK and the AR... but then again I've found that I like every gun ever made I think. Well, certainly anything that's ever seen military service.

Once again, I've been too verbose. Just buy the AK. Save up for the AR later on if you feel you still want one. If I had bought the AK before the AR I might have never gotten the AR and just moved on to more AK style guns.
 
Here is a SAR-1 I got for 320.00 plus change and tricked out using parts odered fron over the internet. It has a flashlight attachment on the right side that is not visible from this pic.

ROSAK.jpg
 
I don't know why people pay so much for AR's, but I only paid $640.00 for my RRA 20" A2 and I paid $380.00 for my NIB 2003 SAR-1. There is no way to compare these two rifles. The AR is a much nicer rifle and is a lot more accurate. I don't think anyone here will ever benefit from why the AK beats the AR - wartime reliability. That being said, and the price not being so different than some people seem to believe, I would own an AR over an AK if I could only have one.

As for "tricking them out", well if that is what floats your boat, then both rifles have a gigantic aftermarket to blow your money on.

ak.jpg


ar.jpg
 
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