Question on light loads in magnum cases

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Look honey I got you this nice 38 special Colt Cobra. It was expensive but you're worth it.

Problem solved and you get a new gun. Follow me for more marital advice.

Been there - Done that. She kept it. I never even got a chance to shoot it.

“Ooooh!! Thank you, sweetie! Yes, I AM worth it!” And it was gone.

 

[Smaug]

Look honey I got you this nice 38 special Colt Cobra. It was expensive but you're worth it. Thought about it, but I'm happy with my SP-101, even though it's not quite a nice as a Colt.

Problem solved and you get a new gun. Follow me for more marital advice.

I was thinking about doing something similar, but with an old S&W 10 with the pencil barrel. She likes the longer sight radius on my 19, but not the extra weight out toward the muzzle.

Or maybe a 3" King Cobra. (though that's pretty close to my 19, and won't shoot as well for her, due to the shorter barrel.

Got to pay off the Man with No Name gun first that I've got on layaway.

 

[Smaug]

Well, no. You DO have other options - which is what most of us have been saying from the beginning - one of which is to use .38Spl cases and the published load data from Lyman’s and Hodgdons’. Another option is to go shorter and pick up some .38Long Colt cases or go shorter still and pick up some .38Short Colt cases. @mcb uses zero-recoil .38SC loads for his competition guns, for example. There are options just not trying to force a bad combo together. I would also discourage just deciding to try X amount of Y powder in Z case with W bullet and “hope” it works like you want. Too small a charge can be hazardous. MORE hazardous than too much of a charge. When flakes or balls or powder start swirling around in a burn area, wit too little heat for complete combustion and too little pressure to release the bullet, that’s when deflagration can turn into detonation. Detonation is a bad thing. Nitro is tricky stuff. Please stick to published data from an authoritative source.

Hodgdon doesn't have any load data for a 105 gr. cast bullet in 357 nor 38. I don't have my Lyman book here, but I don't recall them having data published for a 105 gr cast bullet. This is why I'm trying to "work down" a load. I started with 5.5 gr., same bullet in the 357 case. It was good, but too hot for the missus. 5.0 gr. Same. 4.5 gr was pretty soft, but good. 4.0 gr. is good but too little powder for a 357 case and this bullet.

I do appreciate the powder recommendations, but I can't find most of those powders in stock locally, and again, it's not worth buying $35 worth of powder and $20 HazMat fee just to use up ~100 bullets.

I don't want to buy shorty brass just to use up these last 100 or so bullets. Might be different if I had 1,000 of them.

I did not consider that I couldn't use a powder qty. from a 38 Spl wadcutter load. Didn't realize the implications of the longer case and lighter bullet. I didn't think of ignition problems, just figured it didn't need to cycle a slide, so I had some leeway on the low charge side.

As for sticking with published data rom an authoritative source, that can be severely limiting, as they only publish data on certain bullets. This bullet I'm using has no data for it anywhere, and not really anything close to it either. I sure won't buy more of them, as I had to guess at the loads. If people stuck with book data, we wouldn't have 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum or many other cartridges. It's just that we have to assume the risk. I assumed the risk by using lighter bullets and with lighter powder charges. I'm asking here to try and figure out what happened, which I did, and I don't like being talked down to.

Mixing cases has never been a problem for me. I know there are those of you who only use like cases in a batch, but I have not found that to be practical. Yep, I realize that adds a bit of variability in the crimp, and I will accept that risk too.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was thinking about doing something similar, but with an old S&W 10 with the pencil barrel. She likes the longer sight radius on my 19, but not the extra weight out toward the muzzle.

Or maybe a 3" King Cobra. (though that's pretty close to my 19, and won't shoot as well for her, due to the shorter barrel.

Got to pay off the Man with No Name gun first that I've got on layaway.

Taurus 856. Not the expensive polished one, “The Executive Grade,” just the plain-Jane 3” model with a trigger clean-up job by a decent gunsmith. They’re not very pricey brand new - I’ve seen $375 recently - and are good guns for someone with finger-strength problems once the innards have been polished thanks to a good trigger geometry. Just a thought.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm asking here to try and figure out what happened, which I did, and I don't like being talked down to.

Okay. Message received. You don’t like anything about me or my ideas. I’ll just ignore your posts from now on and wish you well.

 

[wcwhitey]

Hodgdon doesn't have any load data for a 105 gr. cast bullet in 357 nor 38. I don't have my Lyman book here, but I don't recall them having data published for a 105 gr cast bullet. This is why I'm trying to "work down" a load. I started with 5.5 gr., same bullet in the 357 case. It was good, but too hot for the missus. 5.0 gr. Same. 4.5 gr was pretty soft, but good. 4.0 gr. is good but too little powder for a 357 case and this bullet.

I do appreciate the powder recommendations, but I can't find most of those powders in stock locally, and again, it's not worth buying $35 worth of powder and $20 HazMat fee just to use up ~100 bullets.

I don't want to buy shorty brass just to use up these last 100 or so bullets. Might be different if I had 1,000 of them.

I did not consider that I couldn't use a powder qty. from a 38 Spl wadcutter load. Didn't realize the implications of the longer case and lighter bullet. I didn't think of ignition problems, just figured it didn't need to cycle a slide, so I had some leeway on the low charge side.

As for sticking with published data rom an authoritative source, that can be severely limiting, as they only publish data on certain bullets. This bullet I'm using has no data for it anywhere, and not really anything close to it either. I sure won't buy more of them, as I had to guess at the loads. If people stuck with book data, we wouldn't have 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum or many other cartridges. It's just that we have to assume the risk. I assumed the risk by using lighter bullets and with lighter powder charges. I'm asking here to try and figure out what happened, which I did, and I don't like being talked down to.

Mixing cases has never been a problem for me. I know there are those of you who only use like cases in a batch, but I have not found that to be practical. Yep, I realize that adds a bit of variability in the crimp, and I will accept that risk too.

Then this thread should be about “what load will give me good accuracy with little to no recoil in .38 Special of .357 Magnum for the Misses”. We started under the assumption that you had to work with what you have. You were given options but not all the best. Get yourself some .38 Brass, some 125 RNFP Cowboy cast bullets and load from published starting data with HP-38 (a good powder). They will be soft shooting and safe. That is as mild as I would go. If less than that is needed a .32 is in order!

 

[murf]

I have to disagree with this a bit. A good crimp has long been a trick to get powders to burn cleanly to a degree. Most Unique loaders know this, it gives the powder a greater chance to develop max pressure before release of the bullet. It doesn’t take much for a bullet to release, a primer will do it by itself even with a heavy crimp. But a good crimp does give a slight delay. The more time to burn the cleaner the burn. A crimp does not have to be heavy, rarely should it be but by all means put a good one one.


I do agree with you neck tension comments completely. Good consistent neck tension and a good even consistent crimp will allow for the best environment for a powder to burn. Unless in this case it’s just not enough and he is having problems with powder position.

target loads in 38 special get .001" neck/bullet tension and very little crimp. the same should apply here. only one way to find out.

murf

 

[AJC1]

Then this thread should be about “what load will give me good accuracy with little to no recoil in .38 Special of .357 Magnum for the Misses”. We started under the assumption that you had to work with what you have. You were given options but not all the best. Get yourself some .38 Brass, some 125 RNFP Cowboy cast bullets and load from published starting data with HP-38 (a good powder). They will be soft shooting and safe. That is as mild as I would go. If less than that is needed a .32 is in order!

38 loads are super weak. The Lyman cast manual has a 158 with tg at 2.8 grains and 800 fps. I worked up this load from the bottom like we always preach and my son called the load a snooze fest and shot his 22lr instead.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Well, no. You DO have other options - which is what most of us have been saying from the beginning - one of which is to use .38Spl cases and the published load data from Lyman’s and Hodgdons’. Another option is to go shorter and pick up some .38Long Colt cases or go shorter still and pick up some .38Short Colt cases. @mcb uses zero-recoil .38SC loads for his competition guns, for example. There are options just not trying to force a bad combo together. I would also discourage just deciding to try X amount of Y powder in Z case with W bullet and “hope” it works like you want. Too small a charge can be hazardous. MORE hazardous than too much of a charge. When flakes or balls or powder start swirling around in a burn area, wit too little heat for complete combustion and too little pressure to release the bullet, that’s when deflagration can turn into detonation. Detonation is a bad thing. Nitro is tricky stuff. Please stick to published data from an authoritative source.

I thought he said he was trying to solve the problem using 357 cases. It could be that a deeper seated heavier bullet bullet like a 125 grn wadcutter and HP38 would be the ticket. That takes care of the longer case by decreasing the case volume.

Personally, I just load 158 grn SWC bullets in .357 cases and they're pretty tame loads. I shoot those in a K frame model 19. I also load light 38 Spl. for a model 36 (J frame) using 125 grn SWC bullets and published Cowboy load data.

If you want a truly light shooting revolver buy a 32 Long. Designed around 100 grn bullets. The truth is 38 Spl and 357 mag were both designed around a 158 grn bullet. That's always my first rule. Other bullet weights sometimes work very well but you will never go wrong with the original. Load the bullet that the cartridge was originally designed for when in doubt.