Question on Manurhin Walther PP

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Hey there, my favorite local gun store, City Arms, has a Manurhin Walther PP .32 new on their consignment shelf. It's in excellent shape with very little wear at all. Asking $500.00. Now I know that all the post war Walthers were made in France by Manurhin up until early 80's, and then shipped to Walther in Germany for assembly and marking, and that Manurhin made Walthers under license during that time as well.

So far so good.

But I'm curious about this pistolet as all the Walther markings on the gun have been obliterated. The 'Walther' banner on the grips has been ground off and the Walther markings on the slide marked over with 'x's. Also two of the proof marks on the frame were x'd out as well.

What's that all about? Any ideas?

 

[steveno]

I bought a Manurhin PPK/S in 22 long rifle back in the middle 1980's and it doesn't have any Walther markings of any kind on it. I don't understand why any markings of any kind would be ground off. I don't think I would waste my money on this one. If I found markings ground off I would assume that something illegal has been or is going to be done with it. in the same time frame I also bought a 380 and got rid of it for some stupid reason. I paid $265 for each of them

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Yeah, the price the owner wants for it is out of line; I was more curious about the obliteration of the Walther markings. It looks like it was done at the factory; I mean you can still see what's under the 'x's and the serial number is untouched so I don't think this was done maliciously.
Maybe it was a trademark issue?

 

[45shooter]

Maybe it was Nazi era PP that were refurbished and issued to West German police? Maybe they didn't want any of the pre war markings on them?

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

No this is definitely a post war gun; again all the Walther marks have been obliterated and two proof marks. The 'Walther" banner on the grips has been ground off. The defacement on the slide and frame has been done by 'x's being stamped into the metal, but you can still make out what was underneath.

 

[steveno]

it would probably be a good shooter at maybe half the price. it is not worth $500 in any way shape or form

 

[Wil Terry]

In The Condition You Noted It Is Worth Half What They're Asking.

I have several MANURHIN/WALTHER pistols in 7.65MM and 22LR. One of the 32's has all MANURHIN markings on the left side of the pistol including a MANURHIN stock and all WALTHER markings on the right side of the pistol, including a WALTHER stock. It came in a WALTHER box with all the correct papers etc.
The MANURHIN PP 22 is exceedingly accurate and shoots dead on the sights. I have shot prairie rats so far away with this pistol even the guys who witnessed it called me a lier !!!!!!

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Guys, I *know* it's not worth that much - even here in Kali with the ridiculous limitations on the sale of used guns. I was just really curious about the markings.

 

[Jim Watson]

At one time it was illegal for some agencies in Germany to have German guns. Perhaps they were obliterating anything that would give the impression of German manufacture to a French product.

 

[Ron James]

Or it could be a gun or gun parts destined for Walther in Germany, that was left in the factory after the change over . Manurhin couldn't sell it as a Walther, so they removed the Walther markings and sold it as a Manurhin.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Or it could be a gun or gun parts destined for Walther in Germany, that was left in the factory after the change over . Manurhin couldn't sell it as a Walther, so they removed the Walther markings and sold it as a Manurhin.

Ah! now we're getting somewhere, this sounds like a possibility.

 

[New_geezer]

There is a forum section at www.p38forum.com that discusses ll WWII and post war Walther guns including PPKs. A lot of those guys are hard core collectors and could probably give you a detailed answer. quite likely they've seen it before.

Just my guess, but I think the idea of it being assembled out of left over parts that couldn't be labeled Walther is a good one. As a Walther, there are probably several parts marked with the serial number and of course they should ideally match. If they don't, that's more fodder for the view it's a kluge of leftover production.

 

[aaronrkelly]

At one time it was illegal for some agencies in Germany to have German guns. Perhaps they were obliterating anything that would give the impression of German manufacture to a French product.

I know the history of my gun.....which makes this very probable.




I have a gun EXACTLY marked how you describe. XXXXs over the Walther on the slide......ground off grips.

I believe it was imported by some gun outfit in CA if I remember correctly. It was in darn good shape and I paid $240 for it. They are considered C&R guns if marked Manhurin.....and can sometimes be found online for a song.

I have NO idea why they were defaced.

I did send pictures and the serial number off to Walther in Germany, the replied with the history of my gun.....which was really nice. My gun was delivered to the Bavarian Police Dept in 1968 for use as a duty pistol. I thought it was a nice piece of history.

However, the gun was a piece. I respringed it, cleaned the bejezus out of it, oiled it, ran it dry......NOTHING made this gun reliable. New mags, old mags.....didnt make a difference.

My cousin now owns it.....he dug it for the history.

 

[Onmilo]

It may have been issued to the Berlin Police.
Under Treaty all firearms issued in Berlin could no be made in Germany, nor could they carry any marking related to Germany, not even a trade name.

Even so, without documentation, the pistol is just another postwar PP .32