Question- what's this metal?

[igotta40]

I have a J P Sauer & Sohn Western Six Shooter made (I believe) in 1969 in Western Germany. It's a .357 magnum. It's a Colt SAA clone except for the firing pin.

My question is about the metal for the grip frame, trigger guard and ejector tube. Some of the original black coating is worn off from handling and holster wear, and underlying material looks a dull gray. It appears to be cast metal of some sort. It feels too heavy to be aluminum.

Is it steel? Never heard of cast steel, but I could be mistaken. Is it anodized?

I started polishing the grip frame with steel wool and it cleans up a bit like shiny aluminum, and doesn't look too bad, but the barrel and frame have a really nice bluing so these other parts make the revolver look cheap.

What can I do to make this otherwise nice revolver look just a little better?

Numrich has brass grip frame and trigger guards available, but no ejector tubes, which wouldn't look good in brass anyway. And for what I paid for this piece I'm not eager to spend the $$ on new brass parts. I know it will never be a BBQ gun, but I want it to look better than a truck gun.

BTW the grips are a yellow plastic similar to what John Wayne carried in 'True Grit',
Any advice and comments?

 

[Shimitup]

Kind of sounds like pot metal (zinc mostly, alloyed with tin and other metals). I kind of think of it as the plastic of the 50's and 60's. Automotive exterior and interior chrome plated trim was exclusively made out of it. Carburetors and household appliances, it was everywhere. I think there's still a fair of stuff made out of it I just don't pay attention to it anymore. If you could shave a little off with a pocket knife from inside the frame somewhere and drop it in some muriatic acid, if indeed pot metal it will immediately dissolve. There may be less fun ways to identify it too.

P.S. My first gun was a Roy Rogers cap gun, almost certainly pot metal. I found it more fun to smack entire rolls of caps with an 8 lb. sledge hammer than use them in the gun however.

 

[the Real Alpo]

I can see a potmetal frame in a 22. But a 357? Just don't seem like it would hold up.

 

[igotta40]

I was reluctantly thinking pot metal, as in old car door handles, so if that's the case I'll just polish it up and just keep chugging along with it.... or paint it or powder coat it.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, it is Zimac, Or zinc alloy, otherwise known as pot metal.

The grip frame on a single-action is nothing more then a handle to hold onto.
The steel frame contains all the pressure and recoil from firing.

You can polish it, but cast zinc will react with are, and disintegrate over time.

It is best coated with something to prevent oxidation.

Duracoat! or even black spray paint would be better then nothing.

rc

 

[jmr40]

I can see a potmetal frame in a 22. But a 357? Just don't seem like it would hold up.

Ruger has used cast aluminum for the same non-critical parts on some of their single action revolvers for about 40 years. Not all, but most of the blued Blackhawks.

 

[Normandy]

I had a Colt Peacemaker with pot metal rear frame. Had to have it powder coated. It looked great afterwards.

 

[BobWright]

The metal is ZAMAK, for Zinc, Aluminum, MAgnesium, and Kupfer (copper). Its of German origin, pretty good alloy, equal or superior to aluminum.

Here is my J.P. Sauer & Sohn .357 Magnum after fitting with brass trigger guard and backsstrap:



The trigger guard is from a Hawes, the backstrap from a Uberti. The mainspring screw must be from a Uberti as well.

Grips are home made.

Incidentally, ZAMAK differs from pot metal in that it contains no lead or tin, and is more closely controlled in ingredients.

Bob Wright

 

[Bullet Bob]

And aluminum like Ruger uses is different than ZAMAK or pot metal. I don't know about all the Colt .22's, but the Peacemaker and New Frontier used aluminum for the grip frames. My New Frontier is a real favorite:

 

[GBExpat]

The metal is ZAMAK, for Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium, And Kupfer (copper). Its of German origin...

Then ... shouldn't it be ZAMUK.

 

[Waveski]

BobWright - you done good! The detail of your work is commendable.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Same thing most toy cap guns of 50-60 years ago were made of and us kids at the time beat them up 20 times as worse as any real guns and they held up real well considering.

 

[Jim K]

I know I am that voice in the wilderness, but zinc alloy is not "pot metal". Pot metal is cheap cast iron, the metal they made cook pots out of. I know what Wikipedia says but the writer had no idea what he was talking about. Cap guns were not made of zinc alloy, but of cast iron, true pot metal.

Yes, those parts of the Sauer (and many other SAA clones) were made of zinc alloy and painted since that alloy can't be blued or anodized.

Jim

 

[MCgunner]

Zamac (I spell Copper with a C) is fine in grip frames and ejector rod housings, no real stress on these parts. BUT, I take issue with the "zamac is stronger than aluminum" comment. Zamsc, in my experience, is much softer and more brittle when used in slides of cheap auto pistols. Of course, the aluminum used in most handguns isn't PURE aluminum, but an alloy. Also, zamac is heavy. I have a Ruger SR22 with an aluminum alloy slide and a Phoenix Arms HP22 with a zamac slide. Guess which one I've had all the trouble with.

But, in those Rohm and JP Sauer revolvers from the 60s, the zamac isn't used where it'll be too stressed. HOWEVER, I did have a .22 caliber Hawes (Rohm made) Colt SAA look alike when I was a kid. It shot okay, not that accurate, but held up okay for me. In college, I needed money. I'd paid 36 bucks for that gun WITH .22 mag cylinder. It was cheap. Friend gave me 25 bucks for it. Over the summer, he caused the threads in the zamac frame to wear out where the barrel threaded by abuse. He seemed to be infatuated by fanning the thing. Now, most guns, the fanning would have eventually broken the hammer spring, but on the Rohm/Hawes, the zamac wore out first.

Yeah, on stressed parts, I'm not a big fan of zamac. It's also a reason I got the Ruger SR22 instead of the "Walther" P22.

 

[BobWright]

igotta40 said:

Is it steel? Never heard of cast steel, but I could be mistaken.

Never heard of cast steel?? Ruger has been doing that for many years for their revolver frames. Plus casting for the industry such things as electric motor frames. The list of cast steel items in almost endless.

Bob Wright

 

[rcmodel]

but zinc alloy is not "pot metal". Pot metal is cheap cast iron, the metal they made cook pots out of.

I disagree.

Pot Metal was never used to make cast iron cooking pots.
Cheap cast iron was used to make skillets and pots.

This is my understanding of 'pot metal' over the last 50+ years since I learned how to ID various metals and weld it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal


You can braze cracked cast iron skillets.
You can't do anything to repair broken pot metal, short of melting it down and re-casting it.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Pot metal is cheap cast iron. I know that most folks seem to accept your definition of "pot metal", but that was NOT its original meaning. When you read books or articles from the 1920s saying that guns (especially imported Spanish revolvers or pistols) were made of "pot metal", they weren't talking about ZAMAK, which was unheard of, they were talking about cast iron. (Check the guns that haven't blown up yet; they are NOT zinc alloy.)

That definition was general until sometime after WWII, when someone decided to change the meaning to suit himself. With the old use out of fashion (like the cast iron cookpots themselves) the new definition prevailed.

Cap pistols were also made of "pot metal" (cast iron) until after WWII, when they began to be made of a zinc alloy, and later of plastic, with steel inserts and some steel parts.

(Of course definitions change. There are still some circles in which, if you are feeling happy, it would not be good idea to say that you are "gay"!)

Jim

 

[Ex]

A light coat of Mothers wx over the Zamak will protect it and keep it looking nice. Amazingly long lasting protection for it, especially if you do a second coat a week later.

 

[GBExpat]

Back in the '60s my Dad referred to some cheap metal item that had failed as being made of "pot metal" so the failure did not surprise him. First I had ever heard of that.

As I recall ...

He explained to me that pot metal was a reference to an assortment of cheap and/or salvaged metals that ended up in the melting pot.

He told me that some pot metals were of better quality than others but never used where great strength was required.

Perhaps long ago "Pot Metal" referred to metal from which cooking pots were made, but by mid-century, not-so-much.

 

[jmorris]

Is it steel? Never heard of cast steel, but I could be mistaken. Is it anodized?

There is cast steel. It is stronger and welds normal relitive to cast iron. Trying to think of examples but it's not as common as cast iron. The spindles and rear bearing/brake mounts on old link pin front end VW's (At least the pre 1968). Are made from cast steel.

 

[Archie]

Not cheap

J. P. Sauer and Sohn is an old, well established and respected company dating from 1751. A portion of the original company went into business with Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft - usually known as the abbreviated "SIG" and the combined company is known as SIG-Sauer.

Sauer is not, nor ever has been affiliated with 'Rohm Gesellschaft' or RG. RG is known for the really bad, cheap, nasty revolvers they used to make. (Then they went out of business.)

Whatever the metal is on the Sauer & Sons revolver, it is solid and functional. The pistols made in West Germany and imported in the 1960s were decent, if not flamboyant bits of machinery.

 

[g.willikers]

If memory serves, Hawes was the name of the importer.
Some of their wares were from Sauer, but not all.

 

[raubvogel]

There are different types of Zamak with different strengths. Easier and cheaper to cast than steel. As others mentioned here, it all boils down to using it where it is structurally viable. Same reason why you can make safe pistols with polymer frames.

 

[BobWright]

g.willikers:

If memory serves, Hawes was the name of the importer.
Some of their wares were from Sauer, but not all.

The first J.P. Sauer Single Actions were imported by Hy Hunter, who had them made in Germany to fill orders he had pending for the Great Western (American made) revolvers. These were imported for awhile until Hy Hunter got out of the business for various reasons. The Hawes brand was the successor to Hy Hunter.

Bob Wright