Questions about. 357 mag reloading data

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Rfwobbly, i appreciate your input, and i intend to be conservative and shoot lighter to stronger loads carefully. However, the Lyman data I'm using is in current publication. If you're saying that I cannot trust the load data in a new edition publication from any company that doesn't manufacture the powder in question, I... well, I just find that hard to believe.

Not saying that at all.
I'm referencing the earlier comments made about using the photocopied data sheets of unknown age. I'm saying don't use load data older than ~10 years, and supported that with 2 valid reasons. Your #49 or #50 Lyman (supplemented by manufacturer's web pages for the newest powders) is excellent.

We all have older data we keep around... just in case an elderly neighbor gives us a can of Unique he bought in the 1980's. But we don't reference older reloading data on any type of regular basis... any more than we watch Ozzie & Harriet re-runs on a regular basis. :D

All the best.
 
Okay, is done. Shot loads from 11.6 to 13.4grains of Acc #9 all under the same bullet, 158 grain LSWC by cast performance with clear lube.

6" ruger stainless security six.

Don't think there was leading, but haven't had a chance to look closely yet.

The really low power loads. 11.6 and 11.8 and 12. Gr, were not very accurate.

From 12.2 to 13.4 Things looked a lot better.

12.2, 12.6, 12.8, 13.,13.2 and 13.4 were fired.

Liked 12.2 and 13.4 the best.

Was very dirty powder. I think I chased off the dude in the next shooting lane with soot.
 
Was very dirty powder.
Part of my problem, not a good clean burn at the max book loads, dirty brass and large ES numbers. I was very disappointed. It works so well in .44 Mag. 2400 was my answer to full power .357 Mag. I did not try a magnum primer, since I wasn't using a mag primer in .44 Mag with it, at least not per say, as I used WLP primers. I do have some small pistol mag primers, so I could try it I guess. I have plenty of AA #9. But I have plenty of 2400 as well.
 
i don't know if this applies here?
We tested loads at both maximum normal pressures and at the starting loads (some labs calculate start loads—we shot them). Standard primers caused no ignition issues at the max load but posted higher extreme variations in pressure and velocity in the lower pressure regimes of the start loads. In extreme cases, the start loads produced short delayed firings—probably in the range of 20 to 40 milliseconds but detectible to an experienced ballistician. Switching that propellant to a Magnum primer smoothed out the performance across the useful range of charge weights and completely eliminated the delays.

Read more: http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/#ixzz4w0AKp7Yj
 
Walkalong, I hear this. Along with my AA #6 reloads I had a box of federal American Eagle .357 magnum. My best reload accuracy today was on par with the factory .357. So, dirty burning powder and decent accuracy, but not WOW accuracy.

I'm going to keep looking for a powder. I have a new can of imr4227 and I found some unique today also. No one seems to have 2400 locally. But so many reccomend it, I'm going to make a lot of phone calls tomorrow.

243winxb, very interesting quote. May very well be what happened at the low velocities. I wouldn't have noticed millisecond delays so that could have happened. I assumed, based on some stuff I've read here, that the low charges weren't burning all the powder at the same rate each time.

Pressure was no problem. I brought the factory ammo to compare blast and recoil as I moved above western's max. It was an extra safety measure.
 
Okay, is done. Shot loads from 11.6 to 13.4grains of Acc #9 all under the same bullet, 158 grain LSWC by cast performance with clear lube.

6" ruger stainless security six.

Don't think there was leading, but haven't had a chance to look closely yet.

The really low power loads. 11.6 and 11.8 and 12. Gr, were not very accurate.

From 12.2 to 13.4 Things looked a lot better.

12.2, 12.6, 12.8, 13.,13.2 and 13.4 were fired.

Liked 12.2 and 13.4 the best.

Was very dirty powder. I think I chased off the dude in the next shooting lane with soot.

You do realize that probably 90 % of the "dirt. soot. smoke" is the lube not the powder??
 
magnum primers make a world of differance with magnum pistol powders. Don't give up on A#9 till you've tried it with a magnum primer. In my 357 herrett which uses a large rifle primers, the difference between a CCI large rifle magnum and a CCI large rifle magnum primer with H110 was 150 fps and extreme spreads were cut in half.
 
Rule3, I'm not sure about this. A number of people have told me AA#9 and imr 4227 are dirty powders - especially with small pistol primers and low power loads. And my revolver was dirtier than any handgun I've ever fired. Though it's true, I've never fired 100 rounds of cast ammo through and handgun before yesterday.

Someguy2800, this is probably good advice. I picked up a card of 100 Winchester spm primers when I got the unique yesterday. Will retest the higher power set of AA#9 loads with mag primers. I would like to find a great load with a powder i already have.
 
Many powders will leave residue, even Alliants 2400, using a mag primer. Same for 4227.

When ejecting the fired brass from a revolver, point the muzzle up. This keeps the dirt from getting behind the ejector star and making it hard to open, close or turn the cylinder. I know its an S&W problem, for sure.
 
243winxb. I guess i can live with soot. The AA#9 soot was fine, dusty stuff and didn't effect shooting or loading. Perhaps I should be happy with that? And I think i could be if I found a magic accuracy load. Unfortunately, I won't get a chance to test again for a week or so. These are the hardest aspects of reloading, time and expense. :)
 
Rule3, I'm not sure about this. A number of people have told me AA#9 and imr 4227 are dirty powders - especially with small pistol primers and low power loads. And my revolver was dirtier than any handgun I've ever fired. Though it's true, I've never fired 100 rounds of cast ammo through and handgun before yesterday.

Someguy2800, this is probably good advice. I picked up a card of 100 Winchester spm primers when I got the unique yesterday. Will retest the higher power set of AA#9 loads with mag primers. I would like to find a great load with a powder i already have.

Rule3, I'm not sure about this

I am.:)

Yes, anything that burns will leave a residue. It is part of the whole combustion thing. But the clean vs "dirty" powder thing is not a major issue, I clean my guns one way or another, Yes, low power loads will tend to get "dirty"

Also Accurate/Western calls for a SPM primer

Bullet lube is very dirty(its wax) which is why many have gone to the Hi Tec coated or powder painted.

Load some jacketed or plated bullets and see how much less crud there is. If you smoked out the guy shooting next to you, it's not the powder.
Try it yourself.

Also how much of a crimp did you use, If it is not enough you get poor burn and more "dirt".
 
H110/W296 works really well for full power loads in .357, but needs a SPM primer.
Also H110/W296 (same powder, different label) should not be reduced very much, narrow load range, so pretty much full tilt only.
Works great though.
IfF you want to shoot lead bullets you might consider getting the coated ones, less smoke and a little cleaner, only slightly more $.
Missouri bullet company has some nice ones and offers THR members a 5% discount with a code. (PM me if you need the code).
Acme bullets seem to work well also and come in neat wooden boxes.

Rocky Mountain Reloading has some plated bullets for .357 that are rated or 1400fps.
https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...8-gr-rmr-round-nose-plated-hp/?v=7516fd43adaa
They offer THR members a 5% discount with the code as well. (PM me if you need the code)

Maybe with some luck the AA#9 will work better for you with the mag primers.
 
If you want super clean burning powder for plinking/light loads I would suggest WST. It's burns super clean even at reduced loads. My neighbor was shooting with me and he made a comment that my loads gave off very little smoke, he was using Unique. For full power I normally use the W296/H110 or 2400.
 
I believe that the interior of the spent cartridge case can give you the best indication. Powder is nothing but "fuel" for combustion, and like any combustion cycle, the residue color indicates the efficiency of the "burn".

As a kid we used kerosene lanterns when the power went out. You had to adjust the wick to stop the soot from forming. The way you did this was lowering the wick for the brightest light. This is a very simple example of optimizing the fuel combustion efficiency. The leaner burn resulted in more light. "More for less" is the very definition of efficiency. The exact same thing happens when you "read" a spark plug. You're looking for a soot-free plug tip, which is typically light tan or gray. That tells you the amount of fuel is appropriate for the combustion pressures.

The fuel is different in cartridges, but the combustion process is the same. If you see soot inside the spent case, then you have an inefficient burn due to low pressure. At that point you have to decide 1) to add more fuel to increase the chamber pressure, or 2) determine (by the use of a chrono) that the max pressure has been achieved and the powder simply burns too slowly to build the needed pressure for an efficient burn. In other words you need a slightly faster burning powder which builds more chamber pressure before bullet release. And like the spark plug, I'm wanting to see light tans and gray residues.

This is by no means an exact science, and I don't want anyone to base all their reloading efforts on this alone. But it has been a way for me to better understand and gauge the usefulness of different powders in different calibers.

Hope this helps.
 
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Rule3, interesting posts. I didnt keep my spent cartridge cases segregated so I can't check for soot or carbon until next go round. My case cleaning is pretty low tech right now so hopefully pre-test dirty case interiors won't ruin your testing protocol. If it does I may have to get some kind of case cleaning machine. (Might need one anyway). I see there are ultrasonic units now. Could be an option. I dunno. Any reccomendations?

I've been leary of powder coated bullets. I kinda thought they were soft lead bullets with paint on them. Wanted to shoot hard cast, but if the coated bullets are hard, might be worth a try.

Dudedog, I was out today and bought a pound of w296 and a whole 1000 wspm primers. I've got w296, AA #9, unique, and IMR 4227. Also have 200 .357 cases. 50 are already primed with sp primers, so they'll be testing unique next time. The other 150 cases will be w296 and the AA #9 retest - all with magnum primers. Will report results. Have my fingers crossed for an AA#9 load.
Also, you've already passed along the customer codes. Was a super cool thing to have done.

Blue68f100, I'll make a note. Right now I feel a little overwhelmed with all the stuff I've collected on my .357 odessey. But I could see searching for a super clean load. Was WST accurate for you?
 
For case cleaning I have tried the vibrating units. (Frankford) worked good. (inexpensive combo) Walnut cleans faster, corncob polished better and doesn't get stuck in flash hole.
Ultrasonic unit (Frankford). I was disappointed, the unit worked but required lots of cycles, rest time between runs of cycles.
Finally I broke down and spent the money for a wet tumbler. I purchased a Lyman Cyclone, lots of people like the Frankford one.
Cyclone came with pins and trays but no pin pickup magnet, you will want one if you go this route.
With car wash and wax and a dab of citric acid it works GREAT. Money well spent, cases come out looking like new---spotless, takes about an hour and 1/2 + drying time.
If they are deprimed first the primer pockets are spotless as well.
(note, this probably makes no difference in how the ammo shoots but the clean cases make me happy :))
I usually sort the brass then do a quick run of about 1/2 hour. (dirty sandy range) After drying I deprime then run them for another hour.
The wet setup is more expensive initially but cheaper in the long run as you never need to replace media.
Also no possibly contaminated dust to deal with.

Never used 4227 in .357 but some people like it, hope the W296 works out for you (it needs mag primers), and hopefully the AA#9 will be better with them as well.
Please keep us posted on how things work out.

MBCs coated bullets come in two hardness levels. The ones they list for .38 are usually BHN12, the ones they have for .357 are BHN18. I believe ACME bullets are BHN16.
For light to light to light-medium loads I had better results with the softer BHN12 ones, the BHN18 are hard enough for FP loads in .357.
I haven't shot any FP .357 loads with the ACMES but they are probably hard enough as well.
Some companies offer bullets harder than BHN18 but I think BHN18 is hard enough.
 
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but I think BHN18 is hard enough.
18 BHN is more than hard enough if the fit is good enough and the throats match up with the groove diameter well. (.001 over groove diameter) I would go with 16 over 18 it it were me.

I have shot both the ACME 16 BHN coated 158 gr SWC and the SNS 16/17 BHN coated 158 Gr SWC at full power with 2400 and it leaves the barrel clean. The coated stops leading unless the throats are undersized, or they are undersized for the grooves, or you break the seal by making the bullet skid. So fit is important, even with the coating, although they are much more forgiving than uncoated.

Some people shoot 12 BHN in .357 with no issues. Fit and start pressure is king.
 
Rule3, interesting posts. I didnt keep my spent cartridge cases segregated so I can't check for soot or carbon until next go round. My case cleaning is pretty low tech right now so hopefully pre-test dirty case interiors won't ruin your testing protocol. If it does I may have to get some kind of case cleaning machine. (Might need one anyway). I see there are ultrasonic units now. Could be an option. I dunno. Any reccomendations?

I've been leary of powder coated bullets. I kinda thought they were soft lead bullets with paint on them. Wanted to shoot hard cast, but if the coated bullets are hard, might be worth a try.

Dudedog, I was out today and bought a pound of w296 and a whole 1000 wspm primers. I've got w296, AA #9, unique, and IMR 4227. Also have 200 .357 cases. 50 are already primed with sp primers, so they'll be testing unique next time. The other 150 cases will be w296 and the AA #9 retest - all with magnum primers. Will report results. Have my fingers crossed for an AA#9 load.
Also, you've already passed along the customer codes. Was a super cool thing to have done.

Blue68f100, I'll make a note. Right now I feel a little overwhelmed with all the stuff I've collected on my .357 odessey. But I could see searching for a super clean load. Was WST accurate for you?

The "cleanliness" of the"interior" of a 357 case as far as looks is not important. The reason to clean cases is so there is no foreign particles that may damage your dies. The rest is all cosmetic and some folks ar OCD about surgically clean brass.

The whole clean vs dirty powder is not a big deal, as I mentioned conventionally lubed bullets will smoke and case much more "dirt" on your gun then coated or jacketed bullets Which is what we are talking about, not how clean the inside of a piece of brass is.

As far as cleaning brass, the most ongoing threads on any forum is about that or buying a Dillon Press.:what:

You can simply wash the brass is soapy water, rinse and dry. I am conventional old school and use a vibrating tumbler with corn media, some folks go all out and use a wet rotating tumbler with stainless steel pins, wash, rinse, dry, get dirty and repeat. To me sonic is a waste, there is no real "polishing" going on plus it's expensive. But whatever folks find works for them.

I do not know what manuals you have, but if shooting lead bullets I suggest Lymans CAST bullet manual and for general info and good information Hornadys manual.

More for the first chapters on reloading information not just for load data.
 
357 Magnum
Home cast Saeco #382 158 gr lswc. As cast 164 gr, not lubed yet. Starline brass. WSPM
IMR 4227-Maximum 15.8 gr. Accuracy ok between 14.7 to 15 grs.

W296 14.5 gr maximum . Ok , but not the best accuracy.

Alliant 2400 best accuracy at 13.0 gr. My favorite, most accurate loading in many revolvers.

IMR4227Canada.jpg
I only keep the "good" targets. :D

Older powder company lead load data at http://castpics.net/dpl/
 
Blue68f100, I'll make a note. Right now I feel a little overwhelmed with all the stuff I've collected on my .357 odessey. But I could see searching for a super clean load. Was WST accurate for you?

I has been very accurate for me. But with my aging eyes, if I don't have some kind of optics, I'm point shooting. Most of my guns have some kind of optics, red dot or scope. WST has been used by BE shooters for decades. So it's very very good at reduced loads.
 
357 Magnum
Home cast Saeco #382 158 gr lswc. As cast 164 gr, not lubed yet. Starline brass. WSPM
IMR 4227-Maximum 15.8 gr. Accuracy ok between 14.7 to 15 grs.

W296 14.5 gr maximum . Ok , but not the best accuracy.

Alliant 2400 best accuracy at 13.0 gr. My favorite, most accurate loading in many revolvers.

View attachment 765960
I only keep the "good" targets. :D

Older powder company lead load data at http://castpics.net/dpl/

Aren't you supposed to get the holes in the black section of the targets?:):)
 
Aren't you supposed to get the holes in the black section of the targets
Like this? :D
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