Questions about .44 and .357 brass

[vtuck2]

Guys,

I have several .44 magnum, and about as many .357 revolvers, and a single S&W model 10 .38. I may yet acquire a lever action carbine or two in those calibers.

A couple of years ago, I bought some basic reloading gear but never really got started with it.

Now that our sons are grown we would like to start doing some practice shooting. Hence, we are contemplating buying some brass, probably Starline.

In most cases, we will be wanting to shoot .38 special and .44 special intensity loads. Since we have a single .38 special, there is of course no choice but to buy either all .38 special brass or buy some of each.

But as to the .44s, in order to simplify things and economize for the long run, I'm in a quandary as to whether we should buy nothing but .44 magnum brass and load them mild, or whether there is some compelling reason why we might also want to buy both .44 special AND .44 magnum brass.

Although I have no experience reloading I'm reasonably well read about it, and am well aware that you can load .44 magnums to .44 special intensity levels. My understanding that with certain powders it can be counter productive - even dangerous - to load the .44 mag cases with too much empty space, and that the "fix" for this problem is to use powders that are more voluminous.

So, in a nutshell, here's what I'd like to know. Should we buy mostly .44 special brass since that's really what we want to shoot the most? Or should we just buy .44 magnum brass and load it short?

I'm thinking about buying from 500 to 1000 pieces for each caliber (.38/.357 and .44).

I really don't enjoy shooting .44 magnums. After about 12 rounds I always start to flinch. I can shoot .44 specials all day long. Hence, it would seem to make sense to just buy mostly .44 special brass and maybe a smidgeon of .44 magnum for hogs or possibly deer. Even then, 100 rounds would probably last me the rest of my natural lifetime.

I have not compared the cost between the two. But if there are any considerations that I haven't thought about I will appreciate hearing them.

Thanks!

Vernon

 

[fiftybmg]

I shoot IDPA with a model 29, and I only use .44 special ammo. The longer case length of the .44 magnum brass is completely unnecessary for my purpose.

 

[Walkalong]

Buy brass that fits the gun, and load it to the power level you want. I load .357 brass to .38 Spl & light .38 Spl levels all the time. I do not do it with .44 Mag brass right now, but have a couple of .44 Specials for that, but it works just fine, as lots of folks here do it.

Yep, the IDPA guys with their speed loads prefer shorter brass.

 

[cfullgraf]

The only downside of using Special brass in a Magnum chamber is a carbon ring builds up over time at the front of the chamber. The ring can prevent chambering of magnum cartridges. Keep the chambers clean and it is not an issue.

My preference would be to shoot Magnum brass in the Magnum chambers. You can load the cartridges down to Special levels.

Be careful on your choice of powders. Powders that give full power load capability, such of Winchester 296 and Hodgdon H-110 do not play nice in light loads. They are down right dangerous in light loads.

Get faster burning powders for light loads. I like Unique, Winchester 231 and Accurate #5 but there are many other good choices. Check your loading manuals for appropriate load data.

 

[Master Blaster]

But as to the .44s, in order to simplify things and economize for the long run, I'm in a quandary as to whether we should buy nothing but .44 magnum brass and load them mild, or whether there is some compelling reason why we might also want to buy both .44 special AND .44 magnum brass.

Buy .44 magnum and load them light. I don't own any .44 special guns just magnum and none of my guns are moon clipped. Trailboss works great for light lead loads, which is mostly what I shoot in my magnums.
With Magnum cases you will not have to clean out a crud ring left by the shorter specials before you can shoot the magnums.

 

[BYJO4]

I also suggest you buy 44 mag brass and adjust your load for the amount of recoil you desire. I would do the samething with the 357 mag. I would buy just enough 38 brass to handle what you plan to shoot in the model 10.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Specials and Magnums, Magnums and Specials

But as to the .44s, in order to simplify things and economize for the long run, I'm in a quandary as to whether we should buy nothing but .44 magnum brass and load them mild, or whether there is some compelling reason why we might also want to buy both .44 special AND .44 magnum brass.

Although I have no experience reloading I'm reasonably well read about it, and am well aware that you can load .44 magnums to .44 special intensity levels. My understanding that with certain powders it can be counter productive - even dangerous - to load the .44 mag cases with too much empty space, and that the "fix" for this problem is to use powders that are more voluminous.
(edited for brevity)

I would trade the Model 10 and do nothing but magnum brass, but that's just me.

I have never owned a single piece of 44 Special and none of my .357 Mag guns (but one) have ever chambered a 38 Special.

3 Reasons: The crud ring (as has been mentioned) builds up in the small extra space the Special cartridges leave in the longer Magnum chambers and will require extra cleaning effort for two reasons. One, so chambering of magnum cases will be interference-free. Two, so moisture collected by fouling that doesn't get cleaned out doesn not corrode the chamber (kind of like plaque can do to the enamel on your teeth). Three, the adjustment settings of my dies is all for similar-length cases. (Of course, this is less of a consideration if you have a press where you have to reinstall dies, that is, not a bushing/breechlock or turret press or if you have separate sets of dies for mags and for specials).

On what to do with the extra volume: Generally does not matter because the difference in volume is not that great (unless you are pushing performance envelopes) If you are REALLY concerned about the volume, you can use filler to bring the case volume up to 100%. Be sure you learn how to properly use filler before you do. Much simpler is to use faster powders (which are less picky about being down-loaded than slow, magnum powders like H110 or W296).

Two other issues: One, when you want 38 Special or 44 Special performance out of a Magnum case it will take a tiny bit more powder than that same performance out of a Special case. To me that is insignificant. Two, some people believe that the "freebore" in front of the Special case results in lowered accuracy, presumably because the bullet may "tip" in the extra space and thus get swaged a little off-center with its center of gravity as it hits the chamber throat and forcing cone. Couldn't prove it by me, but the debate is out there.

Thanks for asking our advice. Good luck and welcome to reloading.

Lost Sheep

P.S. I never buy new brass empty. All my new brass comes pre-loaded, ready for use. I get one free shot that way and do not believe there is THAT much difference between brass (for my purposes, which are admittedly casual). So, whenever I need some new cases, I just buy a box of good, loaded ammunition and create empty cases the fun way.

 

[vtuck2]

Lost Sheep.

I genuinely appreciate your friendly and informative response. All your points are well taken. Maybe I'll just buy live ammo like you said.

I have fond memories of Alaska. Back in the summer of 1979 I piloted seismic vessels up there. I was all over the Bering Sea. One of my favorite landfalls was Homer.

Regards,

Vernon

 

[Lost Sheep]

Lost Sheep.

I genuinely appreciate your friendly and informative response. All your points are well taken. Maybe I'll just buy live ammo like you said.

I have fond memories of Alaska. Back in the summer of 1979 I piloted seismic vessels up there. I was all over the Bering Sea. One of my favorite landfalls was Homer.

Regards,

Vernon

Thanks for your kind words.

So that no reader takes from your comment that I recommend buying ALL ammunition over the counter, let me specify that I only use that as my source and RELOAD all that brass I also recommend buying QUALITY (loaded) brass (unless it is on REALLY GOOD sale).

I arrived in Alaska for benefit of the U.S. Air Force (by driving from Florida across country and Canada and camping out in a tent and my camper shell all the way, brrrr) in November of 1980. I don't know what Homer was like when you were here, but it is now mostly a Fishing Village (as it has been for a LONG time) and a thriving artist community.

Change is the only constant.

Fresh, never-frozen Halibut is the BEST, eh? 100% improvement over once-frozen and worlds apart from the processed stuff available to
anyone unable to get it right off the boat.

I gotta schedule a fishing trip.

Lost Sheep

 

[FROGO207]

I want to second the Trail Boss for light loads in both those loadings. If you use the longer cartridge then you do not need to worry about any carbon rings and that is a big plus. Unfortunately where I shoot indoors the range rules are lead only and 1000 FPS max for centerfire handgun due to the backstop construction. They said that no one can control what you reload and the nonreloaders will see a MAG sized brass and think "if you can so can I", so nothing that shows any copper (even plated) or magnum sized cases.:banghead:

 

[gamestalker]

Not that it matters a whole lot, I also buy brass that is specifically intended for the firearm concerned. I just feel that it's easier to deal with one brass appication than two. And I also like to know that the brass will deliver full house magnum loads at my descretion.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In most cases, we will be wanting to shoot .38 special and .44 special intensity loads. Since we have a single .38 special, there is of course no choice but to buy either all .38 special brass or buy some of each.

You can shoot 38 Specials in your .357 Magnum so that's really not a problem. If you think you will not shoot .357 Magnums then there's no reason to buy the brass in bulk.

Since you don't have a 44 Special there's really no reason to buy 44 Special brass. just buy 44 Magnum brass and load to 44 Special pressures or slightly more.

My understanding that with certain powders it can be counter productive - even dangerous - to load the .44 mag cases with too much empty space, and that the "fix" for this problem is to use powders that are more voluminous.

Other than Trail boss you will find no smokeless powder that will come close to filling a 44 Magnum case, probably not even half full. There is no reason to worry about a large air space in handgun ammo. In rifle ammo I know 85% fill or more aids in accuracy but not so with handguns.

I highly suggest using W231/HP-38 for bot rounds if you are going to load to Special pressures. It's a good clean powder that produces accurate ammo. I use a lot of W231 in my handgun ammo of all calibers.

Welcome to the forum...

 

[GP100man]

Use the longer brass to avoid the crude ring , & WW231/HP-38 will fill the bill in both calibers.

This is an echooo o oo !!!

 

[cpt-t]

44 & 357 brass

vtuck2; I have loaded both calbiers for a long time, and if were me, I would go with 44 mag and 357 mag cases. I have had real good luck with starline brass and fully recmend it to any body never had a bit of problems with starline and the people in Sadlia are very nice to deal with. I am getting old now and recoil is starting to hurt my hands and wrists. So you do not shoot max loads very much at all just load them back to min loads and see how you like it. I have been shooting 44 mag SUPER BLACKHAWK for many years and I find if I shoot 12 rounds of MAX loads in a row I will start flinching to. My SON and I have several 44mags and several 357mags and that is the length we use why put a hard to remove crud ring in your cylinder. Just be careful on droping power and compare each peice of powdered brass in the tray. As far a alittle rifle to go with your pistoles we have a couple of (( OLD MARLINS )) and they are just great. To be very honest they make a really nice defences rifle or a hunting rifle as well. Get your reloading gear out and start loading something, I bet you will enjoy it, it is not hard. Good Luck To You: ken

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Use the longer brass to avoid the crude ring , & WW231/HP-38 will fill the bill in both calibers.

This is an echooo o oo !!!

I really don't see the big deal about using the shorter brass. As long as you clean your guns after every range trip it's not an issue.