Questions about FTF sale

[Dollar An Hour]

I've not done a FTF private party firearm sale before, but when I bought my guns new, I filled out a form 4473 and they became registered to me. So I don't really like the thought of somebody buying my gun and doing who-knows-what with it, while it's still registered to me.

I guess FTF deals are legal, but I have no idea if this guy has Domestic Assault charges or is a felon.

Is it OK to insist on conducting the transaction at a FFL so they can run the NICS check, and transfer ownership to him? Or is that unheard of?

Below is the law I found on the ATF site:

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

 

[mekender]

if purchase permits are required in your state, make sure you get one, if not, make up a bill of sale and get a photocopy of the persons ID...

its not unusual to request that the buyer produce a CCW permit... that way you know the BG check has been done... iff you can swing that, make a copy of it and keep it along with the copy of the bill of sale

 

[orionengnr]

If the buyer has a CCW/CHL/whatever-they-call-it-in-AZ, he is a Certified Good Guy.

If I buy or sell FTF, it is only with a Texas CHL holder. I verify, but don't take a copy of their CHL, nor will I give a copy of mine.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[Deavis]

while it's still registered to me.

Your gun isn't registered to you by the Feds. There is a record of the sale by the FFL. Big difference.

Is it OK to insist on conducting the transaction at a FFL so they can run the NICS check, and transfer ownership to him? Or is that unheard of?

You are the seller, insist on whatever you want. If the buyer doesn't like it, then that is his problem or depending on how you look at it, your problem. You know the law so just make up your mind about what you want to do. Once you sell the gun, it isn't your problem as long as you follow the law when you sell it. Ask them for whatever you want but be prepared to accept that you will turn away some legitimate buyers who find your request onerous.

 

[SuperNaut]

I insist on a handshake, I do live in Utah after all.

 

[poor_richard]

In the past, I've always written up a bill of sale with both persons signing, and some form of identification. That was when conducting the sale with close friends. My reasoning was that "anything" could happen, and the bill of sale covers both parties. The FFL isn't necessary and costly, but a bill of sale with ID should suffice to cover you.

There was a case a few years back about a guy who sold a handgun to a LEO without a bill of sale. That gun was then used in a crime, and they traced it back to the guy that sold it to the cop. IIRC, it sounded like they were trying to make trouble for him over it.

This is also good practice to get into when selling a car to an individual.

 

[Robert Hairless]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.

There's no national gun registration scheme in the United States and the law does not require you to be an investigator.

What it says is that you may not sell a firearm to someone you know to be prohibited by law from buying it or if you have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited.

So don't sell if you know the buyer is a felon, for example.

And don't sell if the buyer shows up in a sweatsuit marked "Stolen From Leavenworth," says he's glad to buy your firearm because no dealer would sell to him, drives up in a police car with the markings covered by black tape, has four buddies wearing ski masks, talks about "the screws" and the "yard," or does or says anything else that makes your alarm bells ring.

Keep in mind that you have no control over what the buyer does after he has the firearm, even if he passes a NICS check, is accompanied by his minister as a character reference, and is surrounded by a chorus of real angels singing his praises throughout the entire transaction. He can sell, give it away, or lose it the very next day, and he can undergo a career change from cop to robber at any time.

You can't control what is beyond your control. You can, and should, comply with federal, state, and local law.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Arizona considers common firearms to be "tangible, disposable personal property" and does not regulate the transfer, or sale of them. That does not mean firearms requiring special licensing, such as full auto. The onus is on the seller only in that you are required to use good judgement in their sale or transfer.

If for instance you see somebody coming out of a bank looking frustrated and they come up and say "Man that bank sucks, can you sell me a gun?", it probably would not be a good idea. Or if your neighbor comes over and says, "My wife/husband just threw a frying pan at me, can you loan me one of yours?", it probably would not be a good idea. Or you are at the range and a seedy looking guy with wild eyes reeking of alcohol comes up and says, "Hey guy, I'm really down on my luck, can you let me have your gun for a minute?", it would probably not be a good idea.

You are legally responsible if you facilitate a crime, or knowingly transfer a firearm to someone you have reason to believe is not going to use it responsibly. In some ridiculous cases like the ones I made up above, it is obvious. In other cases it is only the prickly hairs on your neck you have to go by. It is far better to NOT do a purchase or sale, than to live with the consequences of ignoring your own instincts or conscience.

 

[Robert Hairless]

It is far better to NOT do a purchase or sale, than to live with the consequences of ignoring your own instincts or conscience.

It's interesting that all of us (including the original poster) are concerned as much by the requirements of our own consciences as by those of the law. Good people tend to look at things that way. Nice.