Questions related to first gun purchase

[Siderite]

Hi,
This is my first post, so I suppose I should give some background before posting my questions, since I'm sure they would sound rather silly otherwise.

I've only started dealing with firearms in the past two months. A friend (who is a NRA pistol instructor) ran me through a basic pistol course, and since then I've been shooting a local range (http://www.flatcreekrange.com/). Prior to this I'd never so much as held a gun. So right now, I'm just focusing on acclimatizing and improving. So at the range I've been renting a Browning Buckmark in 22LR pretty much every week. From what I've read on THR, 22LR is the recommended starting point both for cost and ease of handling, and so far, I've enjoyed it. But renting every week adds up, even with a discount for range members, so I've started looking into purchasing a Buckmark (no comments on the choice of gun, please. It's what I've learned on and has functioned flawlessy during that time, so that's good enough for my purpose of learning to shoot well).

1) Buying: From what I've read in other threads (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194937&highlight=gun+purchase+resident+state), it appears that I need to purchase handguns in my state of residence. I'm a college student living in Indiana (IN), but voting, driver's license, etc. are Michigan (MI). However, looking at this thread, (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2434275) it seems that I would also need a purchase permit from the police and a safety inspection in Michigan. I'm 25, so I'm over the 21 years of age requirement. All the threads here have been helpful, but are somewhat scattered, so is there some website/book where I can find all the information on laws regarding purchasing/storage of a pistol? Packing.org was mentioned in the first thread, but seems to focus on concealed carry laws, rather than basic "how do I buy a pistol?" laws. Anything Michigan/Indiana specific would be greatly appreciated.

2) Transport (interstate): The first thread I mentioned above mentions that transporting firearms from state to state has some legal hurdles as well. Do I understand correctly that I'd need to use a FFL to send the pistol to myself in Indiana after purchasing it in Michigan?

3) Transport (within a state, either MI or IN): Once I get through all of that, what is the appropriate way to take the pistol to/from the range? My friend said WI requires firearms to be transported unloaded and in a case, but I know nothing related to MI or IN. In addition to legal requirements, are there any common sense (to someone experienced) things that a newbie like myself wouldn't know in this regard?

4) Storage: As far as I've been able to determine (again, see question 1), there aren't any legal requirements for storage in MI or IN, but I feel that it my responsibility to secure any firearms I would own (with great power comes great responsibility, and all that Spiderman stuff). Reading some of the threads on cabinets, RSC and safes, it seems that there is some disagreement on storage methods. CB900F and a1abdj (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=150487&highlight=safe just one of several threads I've found on the topic)have made some good points about safes for people with large collections or expensive guns, but as someone just looking to purchase his first gun, I don't really know what would be appropriate. As a college student, it is going to be a long time before I get anything even close to expensive, so I think safes are out of the question (for now). Additionally, as I own no guns, and have no idea how many I might get in the future to determine how much storage space I might need. So, for someone who is only going to have one pistol for the foreseeable future, what would be sufficient to stop an "average" thief? (If it helps, I'm in an apartment by myself, no roommates, sig. others, or kids living with me, and will likely stay that way for the duration of my education here).

5) Training: As someone studying to become a teacher, I know the value of education. It is something that can't be taken away from you (well, taken away from you while you still are alive and functioning). I have to admit that much of my range time is just to get me used to being around and handling guns. Once the novelty wears off, I'd like to get some serious training to actually work on skills. While the rangemaster does give me pointers, I'd like to know what courses are out there and what they would cost. My friend, the NRA instructor, is in WI and doesn't know what would be around here (IN) locally. Although I know that well-respected places like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and LFI would be better, my ability to travel is rather limited. I don't know how classes work with regard to how skilled someone needs to be to benefit, but at present I can keep 20 shots in a 4 inch circle at 7 yards, and a 10 inch circle at 15 yards, using an isosceles stance (I haven't tried timing myself, since I assume that speed will come with time and practice). Eventually I'd like to carry concealed, but for now, I just want to know what steps a beginner should take.

Thanks in advance! Let me know if there's anything important that I might have overlooked or left out.

-Siderite

 

[Valkman]

Welcome to THR, Siderite!

I don't know the laws of those states, but check www.packing.org as they have mucho info.

 

[creitzel]

Welcome to THR

I don't have answers to all of your questions, but maybe I can fill in some of the blanks

1.) I'm not sure if you can purchase a gun in Indiana or not. If you purchase the gun in Michigan, you will first need to apply for a pistol purchase permit at your local police department. They give you a small safety test ( multiple choice, and pretty darn easy ), and then run a background check on you. Once they have approved you, and give you the paperwork, you have 10 days to take that to your gun store of choice, and purchase your handgun. The dealer will help you fill out all the paperwork. After purchasing the gun, you will have 10 days to return to your local police department with the gun ( make sure it is in a case, and unloaded ). They will take down the serial number, and your information, and give you your little green card for the gun. And your done

2.) I don't think using an FFL would be necessary since your residence is in Michigan and you are purchasing the gun in Michigan. You can legally transport your own firearm across state lines, if you follow the federal laws for doing so. I can't quote them, but others here can, so I'll leave that to them I don't know if you are living on campus in Indiana, but If you are, I would definitely check into whether or not you can even have a gun in your residence there. Most colleges forbid guns of any kind. The other thing to check out would be Indiana laws with regards to bringing firearms into the state. For instance, if you were purchasing the gun in Indiana, and bringing it into Michigan, you would have to present it to the local police department for registration.

3.) Don't know about Indiana, but here in Michigan the rule is that if you don't have a concealed pistol license, your gun must be stored in the trunk of your car, unloaded. The ammunition must be stored separately. If your vehicle doesn't have a trunk ( SUV or mini-van ) you can transport the firearm in the vehicle, but it must be unloaded and in a case, and once again separate from the ammo. The main thing is to not have the firearm easily accesible to you. So, the more you can do to demonstrate that the weapon is inaccesible to you ( locking mechanisms etc ), the better off you will be. Oh, and I wouldn't have any magazines loaded either. They might construe that as a loaded weapon.

4.) I would pick up a decent office type safe from office max or office depot, as a matter of fact, that is what I did for my first safe. It ran me about $150, and is enough to secure my gun from my children. I have it in a closet, bolted to the floor, and wall studs. It's pretty secure, and would stop casual thieves. A determined thief with tools would make quick work of it though.

5.) Not sure what kind of training options are available to you in Indiana.


Hope this helps,

Chris

 

[Zen21Tao]

it appears that I need to purchase handguns in my state of residence.

Yes, it is my understanding (I could be wrong) that an FFL or face-to-face transfer must be made in your state of residence. However, you can have a firearm sent from an out of state dealer to a local FFL for the dealer (or FFl holder) to make the transfer. For example, if you find what you want from CDNN , KY Imports, or Gunbroker you can have the gun sent to an FFL in your area who will do a transfer for you. You can locate local FFL holders under the "for buyers" option on Gunbroker.

To find out the specific state laws regarding firearm purchases I would first check with you state legislatures home page or Google for "Michigan gun laws." You also need to check Virgina law as well as your local College campus laws (E.g. guns are illegal on UF campus). Also try talking with the owner of some local gun stores about your state laws.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

2) TRANSPORTATION INTERSTATE: the applicable document would be the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) of 1985. This act basically said that you can transport a firearm (unloaded, locked in trunk, etc) from one state to another provided you follow the laws of your origin and destination state.

No need to mail yourself a pistol, just take it with you from state to state, provided you're following the standards set by in the FOPA and are legal in destination and origin state. You can even take firearms aboard planes in your CHECKED luggage with most airlines. Call ahead to check the rules for your individual airline if flying. I've done this quite a few times.

3) TRANSPORT W/IN STATE: go to www.nra.org, go to their Legislative section, and there's a link for gun laws by state, which should cover purchase and transport.

4) STORAGE: I'm sure there'll be some dissent on this issue. If you live alone, you lock your door whenever you leave the house, etc., I don't see the need to buy a cheap safe for one gun. I'd vote for "disassemble into two parts and store separately."

A cheap safe can be torn into without too much trouble, so probably attracts a thief more than slows one down. I'd be far more concerned about a dimwit friend dropping by and messing with it while you're in the next room than I would about theft.


Great choice on the Buckmark, by the way. Enjoy shooting!

-MV

 

[Trebor]

Hi, welcome to the boad. I'll give you what help I can.

1) Buying: From what I've read in other threads it appears that I need to purchase handguns in my state of residence. I'm a college student living in Indiana (IN), but voting, driver's license, etc. are Michigan (MI).

First off, you need to be VERY, VERY careful about residency issues when purchasing firearms. The attorney who does the legal portion for the NRA classes I teach had one client who faced a felony charge for purchasing a firearm in one state where he claimed residence after the prosecutor alleged that he actually was a resident of a different state. I don't know the particulars of the case, or how it would compare to your situtation, but I do know that you have to be very careful about these kinds of issues.

My best advice is that you contact an attorney to clarify your sitution. The attorney I know would give you a free general consultation on the phone. Send me a PM and I can put you in touch with him.

In Michigan, you do have to get a "permit to purchase" from your local police or Sheriff's Department before purchasing a pistol. The process is this:

Go gun shopping. Find what you want. Ask the clerk to place it on "hold" for a couple days while you get a "Permit to purchase." Most places will, some won't.

Go to your local police station or Sheriff's office if you don't have a local PD. Tell them you need a purchase permit. Take a brief written test on gun safety and gun laws. Pass the test and get a 3-part "Permit to purchase." The permit needs to be notarized. Some police departments charge for this. There should be no other charge for the permit

(Btw, call the police station ahead of time to see if they only issue purchase permits on certain days or at certain times of day. Ask the same question about when they conduct "Safety Inspections" on pistols. You have 10 days from the time you pick up the blank "Purchase Permit" to return with the pistol for the mandatory "Safety Inspection.")

Return with the Purchase Permit to the gun store. Pay for the gun and fill out the Federal 4473. Give the Purchase Permit to the clerk for him to fill out. The store gets one copy and you keep the other two (for now). If you buy the pistol as a private sale (non dealer), you still need the purchase permit, but you wouldn't fill out a 4473.

Go back to your local Police Department with the two copies of the Purchase Permit and the pistol for the "Safety Inspection." Have the pistol unloaded and cased. Tell the receptionist you need to do a safety inspection and he'll tell you how they want to handle it. They'll keep one copy of the purchase permit and issue you a "Safety Inspection Cerificate" ("green card"). They keep one copy of the green card and send the third copy to the Michigan State Police. Congragulations, you've just "Safety Inspected" (i.e., registered) your pistol. (Failure to do so is a crime).

2) Transport (interstate): Do I understand correctly that I'd need to use a FFL to send the pistol to myself in Indiana after purchasing it in Michigan?

Your residency issues really muddies up the water here. If you are indeed a Michigan resident, you need to buy the pistol in Michigan. You could then transport it to Indiana for your own personal use. Do NOT transport it across the state line and then sell it though. The problem is that your residency is clouded. You have a Michigan Driver's License, but you reside in Indiana. Talk to an attorney to clarify this issue before you buy a gun, especially a handgun. Depending on your specific circumstances, you may wish to change your residency to Indiana and then buy a gun there. Talk to an attorney to figure out what's most apporpriate for your situation.

3) Transport (within a state, either MI or IN): Once I get through all of that, what is the appropriate way to take the pistol to/from the range?

The best way to transport a pistol is unloaded, cased, and locked in the trunk. I also advise to put a lock on the case, although I am not sure if that is a legal requirement. Store the ammo in a separate case. That should meet both Michigan and Indiana laws.

If you obtain a Concealed Pistol License, you could carry a pistol on your person even in your vehicle. You need to resolve your residency issues first. Both Michigan and Indiana recognize permits issued by the other state. You do need to get the permit from whichever state is your state of residence though. Don't try to carry in Michigan on an Indiana permit if you claim to be a Michigan resident (or vice versa).

4) Storage: As far as I've been able to determine (again, see question 1), there aren't any legal requirements for storage in MI or IN,

Michigan does have a law that holds you liable if your pistol is stolen and used in a crime if it was not stored correctly. I reccomend a small gun safe or at least keeping it in a locked case.

5) Training:

I reccomend the NRA Basic Pistol course as a good first step. You can follow it with the NRA Personal Protection in the Home course. If taken in Michigan, that course qualifies you to apply for a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. (You have to take it in Michigan for a Michigan license because a course given in another state would not cover Michigan law).

You can find info on the NRA courses and instructors in your area at the NRA web site www.nra.org or by asking at your local ranges and gun shops. The NRA courses are the most numerous and easiest to find.

Hope this helps.

Rob

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Welcome to THR.

Here's an idea to help simplify the buying process. How many more years of college do you have? Are you planning on staying in Indiana after college? Do you stay in IN over the summer? An easy way to avoid all the stupid hoops that MI makes you jump through would be to establish Indiana as your state of residence. You will probably need to contact your local DMV or DOL because every state has slightly different requirements. When I was going to college in Idaho, I rented a house for the summer to establish my 1 year residence (required by ID). I then got an ID drivers license and was an ID resident for 3 years. I saved a couple thousand $$ in out of state tuition and I bought my first handgun in ID.

So, If you are planning on living in IN for more than a year it might be worth it to establish your residency there. Just be sure that any gun you buy is also legal in MI because I think you will have to register them when/if you move back.

 

[Siderite]

Thanks for the help!

Thefabulousfink,
that's a great idea. I hadn't really considered changing my residency, but since I'm going to be here for another few years it makes sense. It will save me the trouble that Trebor described, which is important to me, since I only am in MI for short periods of time and would rather spend it with family than dealing with bureaurocracy. Talking a friend here, it looks like the local DMV will handle the majority of things.

Zen21Tao,
yeah, campus doesn't allow firearms, but fortunately I'm living in an apartment off campus so that isn't an issue. I've already checked my lease and firearms are ok.

Everyone else,
thanks for all the info about the process of buying a pistol (Trebor especially, for the walk through). Seeing all the bureaucratic hurdles makes me dislike gun control even more, and I'm just a beginner. Amazing how difficult they can make it to buy something that would make a fairly bad and undesireable weapon.

Thanks again!
-Siderite

 

[Siderite]

Gun laws: state by state

Following the http://www.nra.org link posted by MatthewVanitas brought me to what I was originally looking for, a listing of state/federal gun laws, so I'm posting a direct link for anyone else who might have been looking for the same thing.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

Thanks!
-Siderite

 

[geekWithA.45]

This question most frequently comes up with respect to college students.

FWIW, the ATF acknowledges that you can _reside_ in a state for a part of the year, and that you are a resident of that state during your period of residency.

The practical reality is that unless you can show a Deed to Real Estate, (which a friend of mine used on a few occassions...his summer residence is in a state other than his DL) FFLs are pretty much of the opinion that you reside in whatever state your DL is issued from.