quick question about new winchester nato 124 9mm

[John G C 1]

one one website, the new nato 124 winchester 9mm in long thin box of one hundred rounds is listed at:

Muzzle Velocity	1200 fps
Muzzle Energy	396 ft. lbs

Old box of fifty with foam insert is listed on same site at:

• Muzzle Velocity: 1140 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 358 ft. lbs.

So is the new stuff hotter and a Plus P while the older is not?

 

[lysanderxiii]

The requirements for M882 9mm Ball is a 124 grain bullet at 1214 to 1312 fps.

As to whether in is +P, would depend on what the "P" actually is.

Contrary to popular myth, Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, M882, is not loaded to +P levels. In fact the maximum average pressure for M882 is well below the maximum average for Commercial ammo.

The requirements are:

Projectile weight - 124 grains
Velocity - 385 +/- 15 m/s (1263 +/- 49 fps) (out of a 7.85 inch test barrel)
Chamber pressure - maximum average: 215 MPa (31,183 psi) maximum individual peak: 250 MPa (36,259 psi)

SAAMI 9mm Luger has a max average of 35,000 psi and a max probable lot mean of 36,100 psi and a max probable sample Mean of 37,800 psi.

 

[John G C 1]

Thanks! j

 

[Riomouse911]

I have one box left of the old Winchester Ranger 124 gr 9mm NATO stuff with a WCC 08 headstamp.



No performance specifications are printed on this box to compare.

Stay safe.

 

[Jim Watson]

Velocity - 385 +/- 15 m/s (1263 +/- 49 fps) (out of a 7.85 inch test barrel)

That is 200 millimetres in French and just happens to be the barrel length of a Beretta M12 SMG, which I had read was chosen as the testbed for whatever reason.
Across the chart at BBI, going from an 8" barrel to 4" will reduce velocity by at least 100 fps.

Chamber pressure - maximum average: 215 MPa (31,183 psi) maximum individual peak: 250 MPa (36,259 psi)

SAAMI 9mm Luger has a max average of 35,000 psi and a max probable lot mean of 36,100 psi and a max probable sample Mean of 37,800 psi

SAAMI, CIP, and EPVAT run pressure tests differently but I cannot find anybody to say which gives bigger raw numbers.

No performance specifications are printed on this box to compare.

Winchester catalog says 124 gr at 1200 fps.

 

[lysanderxiii]

The SAAMI specification test barrel for 9mm is 4 inches long .

According to Hodgdon's reloading numbers you can get anywhere from 1000 to 1200 fps with chamber pressures from 30,000 to 33,500 psi with a 4 inch barrel depending on propellant choice.

Since it is not marked as +P, the pressures are probably not in the 38,500 to 41,500 psi range.

 

[pharmer]

"Spicy" makes autoloaders function properly. Joe

 

[LiveLife]

new nato 124 winchester 9mm ... 1200 fps

Old box of fifty with foam insert is listed on same site at ... 1140 fps

So is the new stuff hotter and a Plus P while the older is not?

There may have been a change in powder used for the round to produce higher velocity without going over SAAMI max average pressure.

Compare the below load data and notice the max velocity of Winchester AutoComp of 1156 fps versus Alliant BE-86 of 1199 fps - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ/RN AutoComp COL 1.135" Start 5.1 gr (1075 fps) - Max 5.6 gr (1156 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ/RN BE-86 COL 1.135" Start 5.4 gr (1124 fps) - Max 6.0 gr (1199 fps)

For decades, I used Winchester Super Field to load duplicate factory JHP of Speer Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber for practice (WSF was my USPSA match powder for major power factor loads) but since release of BE-86, have switched due to higher velocities and greater accuracy - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...gr-xtrm-155gr-xtp-loads.921065/#post-12673968

And the buzz is, BE-86 has been the OEM powder used for many factory premium JHP ammunition for decades only released in recent years for retail sale.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

one one website, the new nato 124 winchester 9mm in long thin box of one hundred rounds is listed at:

Muzzle Velocity	1200 fps
Muzzle Energy	396 ft. lbs

Old box of fifty with foam insert is listed on same site at:

• Muzzle Velocity: 1140 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 358 ft. lbs.

So is the new stuff hotter and a Plus P while the older is not?

I'd bet it's cause they tested different barrel lengths with the different boxes maybe? Like one was tested with a 5in barrel and one was with a 4in barrel?

 

[John G C 1]

Thanks all. Appreciate the info.