Quickest draw?
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Vodoun da Vinci
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My absolute fastest is from a front pocket holster with the gun in hand in a firing position. So dang fast I find myself working it up even faster as this is the ultimate dirty trick for me...standing looking like a jerk with my hands in my pockets with a knee bent all casual like and the gun comes out to a fast 3 shot volley incredibly fast.
The next fastest for me is from Appendix and a high ride holster.
VooDoo
The next fastest for me is from Appendix and a high ride holster.
VooDoo
Red Cent
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In the 80s and 90s I wore a Chapman hi-ride owb appendix for IPSC. From 2000 to now, SASS double strong side rig, appendix. EDC is a Commander in a Level 1 Serpa modded to ride close in. Appendix. Move my holster a little and I would get killed.
Around 1983, surrender, no cover garment, balloon at 7 feet, wax bullet. .72. I was second.
If you see it (or think you see it) coming, raising the strong hand to touch the front of your cover gives you speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsKj6RGQ2VM
Around 1983, surrender, no cover garment, balloon at 7 feet, wax bullet. .72. I was second.
If you see it (or think you see it) coming, raising the strong hand to touch the front of your cover gives you speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsKj6RGQ2VM
Red Cent
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Nom de Forum
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Looks like a Snick to me but I do not remember the additional strap.
Unless he lied to me (I was shooting on his squad), when he shot our state match several years ago, he used a stock Glock just like you can buy off the shelf. Only changes were the sights and a trigger job. His IDPA holster is a kydex suitable for everyday carry that you can buy on-line this minute
dickydalton
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I had one of those BB guns once.The Snick I remember didnt have a strap.
This isnt mine, but it is what the ones I remember looked like.....
The Lone Haranguer
Member
AIWB, followed closely by strong side behind the hip. I've never timed myself, however.
I'm curious about your pocket draw. Where are you starting your timer from? It's not fast if your hand is out of your pocket or, especially, if you're sitting down. The thing about pocket carry is that you can already have your hand on the gun. The gun needs to be small enough, or your pocket big enough, to get your fist around the grip on the first try. If you have to pinch it with two fingers just to get it started, your draw will be slow then as well.
I'm curious about your pocket draw. Where are you starting your timer from? It's not fast if your hand is out of your pocket or, especially, if you're sitting down. The thing about pocket carry is that you can already have your hand on the gun. The gun needs to be small enough, or your pocket big enough, to get your fist around the grip on the first try. If you have to pinch it with two fingers just to get it started, your draw will be slow then as well.
I've only timed myself once. It was a Bianchi hi ride pancake type thumb break holster at about 3:30 with a 4" Smith 19 with 125 gr magnum loads. I was at 1.5 seconds for draw and aimed shot at about 5 yards. I had not practiced or worked with it at all. I really need to.
In the dark and distant past, I was able to consistantly hold an empty can on the back of my hand at shoulder level, then draw and snap the 6 1/2" Smith 29 before the can hit the floor. I have no idea what that time is (kind of meaningless without a real time), and doesnt include a reaction to a beeper on a regular timer. It had the strap fastened over the hammer. I pop it with the trigger finger on the draw with the hand in the gun in a shooting grip. I believe using the trigger finger for such things today is generally frowned on, such as the serpa types require.
I've seen many say they are fast, but without times, it doesnt really convey much. Fast compared to what? (kind of like saying "My car is really fast!" without any numbers) No disrespect intended, just an observation. Time it and it means something that can be quantified and understood. One guy I've watched on youtube has done .72 second react, draw and aimed shot with a glock 17 from appendix IWB, and a t shirt covering the gun. Looks like something to work towards and aspire to.
In the dark and distant past, I was able to consistantly hold an empty can on the back of my hand at shoulder level, then draw and snap the 6 1/2" Smith 29 before the can hit the floor. I have no idea what that time is (kind of meaningless without a real time), and doesnt include a reaction to a beeper on a regular timer. It had the strap fastened over the hammer. I pop it with the trigger finger on the draw with the hand in the gun in a shooting grip. I believe using the trigger finger for such things today is generally frowned on, such as the serpa types require.
I've seen many say they are fast, but without times, it doesnt really convey much. Fast compared to what? (kind of like saying "My car is really fast!" without any numbers) No disrespect intended, just an observation. Time it and it means something that can be quantified and understood. One guy I've watched on youtube has done .72 second react, draw and aimed shot with a glock 17 from appendix IWB, and a t shirt covering the gun. Looks like something to work towards and aspire to.
wally
Member
Especially if you are willing to blow a hole in your jacket pocket!
I'd suggest investing in an AirSoft replica of your carry gun and get proficient with it before live fire practice if you are going for this kind of speed. From an external holster I'm pretty happy to hit an 8" steel plate at ten yards about 1 second after the buzzer. I can't break 1 second consistently unless I accept missing the plate. Over 1.5 seconds feels "slow".
If it comes down to quick draw from concealed carry you are likely doomed unless you can take advantage of a distraction to buy you a bit more time. So most folks are better served working on situational awareness than quick draw.
Basic visually perceive and initiate a motor response requires about 0.3 seconds minimum for significant motor action for random stimulus presentation. But you can complete many well practiced motor responses in less time than this -- otherwise nobody would get hit by a punch or there would be no basis for disarming techniques.
From exposed quick draw rigs I think the world record for react-draw-fire is something like 0.2 seconds so assuming 0.15 reaction time for visual perception (about as fast as possible, ~.25 is average) the draw and fire is about 0.05 seconds or about an eyeblink.
Assuming ~5' shoulder height the can will hit the floor in about 0.6 seconds, I believe reacting to a tone is faster that reacting to a light or something you see.
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Good post Wally.
The can thing was not a reaction draw, just drawing at my own initiative, which was why I thought it wouldnt really mean as much as a reaction draw. Thanks for the math on the can drop, I had no idea of a time related to that drop. It was a belt holster, riding a bit high, but exposed. I duplicated the snap location and some other aspects when I had a friend make me a holster for my favorite old 4" 29 I've carried a lot over the past 30-ish years.
I havent studied reaction much, I think its an interesting subject. I find myself catching things I drop unconciously, usually before they drop a foot. Have no idea if thats a common response. Its usually over before I seem to conciously get a handle on what happened.
The can thing was not a reaction draw, just drawing at my own initiative, which was why I thought it wouldnt really mean as much as a reaction draw. Thanks for the math on the can drop, I had no idea of a time related to that drop. It was a belt holster, riding a bit high, but exposed. I duplicated the snap location and some other aspects when I had a friend make me a holster for my favorite old 4" 29 I've carried a lot over the past 30-ish years.
I havent studied reaction much, I think its an interesting subject. I find myself catching things I drop unconciously, usually before they drop a foot. Have no idea if thats a common response. Its usually over before I seem to conciously get a handle on what happened.
wally
Member
Totally common and probably the #1 cause of negligent discharges is trying to catch a dropped gun and getting the trigger.
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ACP
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"I'm curious about your pocket draw. Where are you starting your timer from/"
PACT timer is o a clip on my belt or on a shelf in the shooting port. Buzzer is set on "random," meaning it goes off 1-3 seconds after I press the "Go" button.
My hands are at my sides. I usually look away from the target or turn 90 degrees to it to simulate a surprise situation. Buzzer goes off, hand goes in pocket as I turn to target, acquire grip, draw gun from pocket holster, aim and fire.
Getting the hand in the pocket, then on to the grip with the proper hand/finger placement, then drawing the gun out without bringing the holster with it can be a challenge.
And I wear my average street clothes -- no special "range clothes" with larger pockets, different holsters, different grips, etc.
PACT timer is o a clip on my belt or on a shelf in the shooting port. Buzzer is set on "random," meaning it goes off 1-3 seconds after I press the "Go" button.
My hands are at my sides. I usually look away from the target or turn 90 degrees to it to simulate a surprise situation. Buzzer goes off, hand goes in pocket as I turn to target, acquire grip, draw gun from pocket holster, aim and fire.
Getting the hand in the pocket, then on to the grip with the proper hand/finger placement, then drawing the gun out without bringing the holster with it can be a challenge.
And I wear my average street clothes -- no special "range clothes" with larger pockets, different holsters, different grips, etc.
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