Carry - The ''O'Clock'' choice

[P95Carry]

I hear many folks mention 4 o'clock for their rig position. I however am always forward of this - electing to be 3 o'clock or just verging a bit to 3.30. Incidentally - I have never gotten on with IWB ... it's an anatomical/comfort deal - so OWB always.

If I go too far back 2 things in particular happen - 1) I tend to find that gun butt sticks out more and even with large lose shirt will print much more if bending etc. 2) It is far less feasable or comfortable when in truck and putting a belt on.

A third issue - a personal one - is simply what feels good for a draw - and what works. I can side-swipe ands flick back my shirt and be on the gun quick, with the draw coming smoothly - it suits my ''claw hand'' position as I aquire the grip. Further round seems more awkward.

I was given an OWB SOB rig .. beautiful leather, but am not that happy with the position regarding comfort - or come to that - the potential for pain if falling. Sitting also difficult. Mind you - the draw is in fact quite fast and fluid.

Anyways - let's hear your views on this, and preferences and why.

 

[Ala Dan]

Changing Position (12-hour clock) For Carry-

Greeting's All-

First off, let me start by wishing my friend P95Carry a very Happy
Birthday!

Next, this is a very good subject as I find IWB at 4 o'clock becoming
uncomfortable; and it would be very unlikely that you could some
how retrieve a weapon from this position while wearing a seat belt.
After carrying "Mexican" style for years (while off-duty), I went to
IWB at 4 o'clock right before the seat belt law when into effect
nation wide. So, what are your suggestions? Keep in mind, I'm
short (5'9") and fat ('bout 212-215 lbs).

 

[dev_null]

My 1911/VersaMax II double as a kidney protector. It's a bit more of a reach, but much more comfortable as it sits flat and is virtually undetectable, and I can still clear leather fast enough to not be an issue.

The drawback, as mentioned, is in the car, especially since the IIS and other insurance company lobbies have pushed mandatory seatbelt laws through. Don't really have an answer for that, as taking the gun out when getting in the car and putting it back when leaving would draw too much attention, negating the whole point of concealed carry. I suppose in a more open-carry-friendly atmosphere (I'm in VA, but in the yuppified areas), a paddle would be one answer. Another possiblility would be a "car gun," but the idea of leaving a gun in my vehicle all the time makes me nervous. It would be bad enough if someone stole my car, or broke in and took the crappy CD player, but if some crook got a free pistol out of the deal that would really bother me.

I was going to say that in an ideal world I would be able to wear a CAS-style rig instead, but in an ideal world I wouldn't need to!

- 0 -

 

[P95Carry]

Dan - appreciate the greetings and thank you Mind you, with a trailing zero once more in place after another decade I think perhaps I need some commiserations too

So - suggestions? Well heck, I'd reckon you just need to try all configurations really, which over the years I guess you have anyways. Of course, one prob' I see with IWB (and one reason it don't work for me) is pressure on bone. I am 6'.00" and 200 ... actually still quite lean and so not enough ''padding''.... just hate something within the belt.

Being quite broad of shoulder, my shirt hangs such that the space required for my 3 o'clock OWB piece is happily covered with negligable printing prob's.

I reckon we all have to try stuff out - probably explains we many of us have the inevitable ''box of rigs'' That said I still find it interesting to wonder what ''o'clock'' preferences folks have and why.

 

[nordaim]

I carry at 4 o'clock, OWB. 1911 in a Galco rig with ~10-15% cant.

I used to carry IWB (Ruger P94 and Walther P99) at 6 o'clock. Also used to carry in a shoulder rig on my left side, high under my arm pit.

I stopped carrying at 6 o'clock after some discussions with some constable friends of mine. They were against this form of carry because if you were to get shoved to the ground it could readily pin your weapon and who knows what damage the hard edge your firearm would cause to your spine/small of your back. I thought about this and spent sometime with my pistol in that position rolling around on the ground. I got the idea of what they meant about pinning the weapon and just my own body weight rolling around ontop of my pistol was highly uncomfortable. Thinking about what would happen if I were pushed and you added gravity to the mix, it just seemed like a bad idea.

That lead me to the shoulder rig. It was a change of position, more comfortable (once I got everything adjusted), and made it easier to access from a seated position, which I am often in because of travelling in the car. I found though that it severely restricted what I was able to wear in order to properly conceal it.

With the change to a 1911 frame pistol, I needed a new quality rig, so sorted through the collection of Galco that was available at my local gun shop. I also asked one of the fellows who worked there what he used and he recommended the particular rig that I picked up.

When I first started wearing strong side hip, I started with the 3 o'clock position. It was nice for a good draw, but after more than a few hours of wearing, it become painfully uncomfortable as the butt would press into my side if I was seated for too long. I also found that with my normal dress (khaki's and a polo) that if I were to reach wrong, the very end of my holster would be exposed. I also printed a bit more than I would like when I turned.

That finally lead me to the 4 o'clock position, OWB. It is about as comfortable as I could ask for, allowing for day (16hr) long carry, with a little practice the draw was just as quick as from the 3 o'clock (well, quicker since I have been practicing my draw a lot more). Also the butt rests just lightly against my skin so that I am in near constant touch contact with my pistol, but not nearly as abrasively as it was at the 3 o'clock.

As for me, I am 5'11", 160-165lbs. Average.

 

[DR]

I'm with you on preferring 3:00. 4:00 seems to conceal better so long as I keep still. At 3:00, if I'm moving about my elbow helps keep things covered and I can tell easily if my cover has ridden up. Plus, 3:00 is more comfortable for those of us who spend a lot of time behind a desk. That said, it's usually a J frame in a pocket for me. I find myself using IWB less and less.

 

[anapex]

When I'm back in PA (where I can actually carry), I usually go IWB at 3 or 3:30. Chris, Happy Birthday! and if you want I'll show you the IWB holster I use next time I see ya. It does a pretty good at spreading things out and keeping it close.

 

[Trebor]

I carry just in front of the right hip. Probably 2 o'clock or maybe 2:30. I use a clip-on IWB holster (Alessi Talon) with a S&W M-65 with a 3" barrel. This position is very comfortable and conceals very well. I usually just wear a T-shirt and jeans and I have no problems.

I first tried this position with a Makarov and a cheap IWB. That worked even better due to the slimmer shape of the Mak. The Smith still works fine, it's just that I can notice the difference if I put on one gun and then take it off and try the other.

Barrel length is critical with this position though. A short barrel allows the gun to point outboard to the right, away from my leg. With longer barrel the the barrel rests along the leg and it just doesn't work. It's hard to explain, but if you tried it you'd instantly see what I meant. The 3" Smith works fine, but I don't think a 4" would work at all. That extra inch of barrel makes all the difference. The butt of the gun does not stick out at all and I can bend over without the gun printing against my shirt.

 

[P95Carry]

DR - you mention one good point I forgot and yet should not have. That is the elbow-tucked-in effect with 3 o'clock use. I find I do this unconsciously (and it does not look in the least obvious) ...... it helps for wind lift problems .. getting in and out of truck etc . and also it is an ''instacheck'' ... to feel the gun is there (yeah - I have been known to leave the bathroom ''nekkid'') until elbow confirms a certain lack of bulk!

Dave ....... I certainly have nothing inherently against IWB as a principle and yeah - if you have that rig next time we meet up - be more than glad to see it. Thx for the greeting too

 

[R.H. Lee]

I like 4 O'clock strongside IWB, whether a 642 or a fullsize 1911.

 

[Ringer]

I'm typically in the 3:00 to 3:30 range with a forward cant. It conceals well for me in either a high and tight OWB or in VM-II IWB. Any further back and it is not comfortable for me sitting. As DR said it's easy to lay your arm against it inconspicuously when necessary. I also have a harder time with a quick smooth draw from 4:00 on back. When I'm in a car I slide the holster forward to a pinch ahead of 3:00 or so for easier access, although this is hard to do with the VM-II as it is rock solid in place (good thing).

 

[P95Carry]

Riley - gottcha - at 4, but - I am trying to establish the ''why'' of preferences as well ...... I assume this is what works best of course for you but - what did you find less useful about other positions, assuming you have tried em.?

 

[R.H. Lee]

Concealibility is the major factor. 4 o'clock seems to work best. Second is comfort. Third is access.

BTW, Happy Birthday!

 

[Wildalaska]

What oclock is your back pocket

WildmidnightAlaska

 

[pax]

1 or 2 o'clock IWB for me, what some folks call appendix carry.

Being female, curvy and short waisted, 3 o'clock is a bad joke for me. The curves make the gun barrel stick out and drive the grip into my ribs.

Although I know other people who do, I wouldn't carry behind the hip even if I were built for it. I can easily envision getting knocked onto keister or flat on my back, and wouldn't be able to access the gun. SOB carry makes that problem even more pronounced, and I know a fellow who broke his back falling on top of his SOB. Bad juju.

Although I normally use my right hand for drawing and shooting, I like being able to draw the gun easily with either hand. Who knows? If I'm ever attacked, maybe my right hand will be damaged, or full of something I cannot put down.

Appendix carry doesn't really get in the way of the seat belt in the car, a nice plus.

Biggest drawback is the practical difficulty of concealment. But everyone has that problem, and after five years doing this without getting made, I think it's safe to say I've figured that one out okay.

pax

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Riley.

WA - back pocket (pockets) ... well let's say 5.30 and 6.30 ! If that's not too ''cheeky''

Pax ........ sounds like you have that one sorted, for you. I'd guess tho you are probably limited to barrel length or I imagine sitting would be tricky. If you ain't been made in five years, then you gotta be doing good with concealment!!

 

[Mulliga]

Being able to comfortably access the gun while sitting in a car or a chair is very important to me, so SOB/6:00 carry is out. I usually opt for 3:00/4:00 IWB carry inside the house. It's a compromise (a shoulder holster would grant even better access, but I'd always have to be wearing a second button-up/zippered shirt or jacket), but everything is.

 

[Old Dog]

Three to three-thirty for me, IWB or OWB, with either an Officer's or Commander length 1911 in a holster with pronounced forward cant ... don't know why, it's always seemed more comfortable, the pistols hold extremely flat against my side -- at four-o'clock, the butt seems to print a bit ...

 

[TallPine]

I seem to be most comfortable with about 3.30+ OWB.

Trouble is, it doesn't necessarily stay there but keeps working back towards about 4.30, stopped only by the next belt loop. My jeans have the side loop a little behind the seam, so the holster is behind that. I've tried the holster in front of the loop, at about exactly 3.00, but my hips are just too lean and bony and I get sore after a few hours. Seems most LEOs carry at about 2.30 these days - I don't know how they can handle that pressure on the hip bone. (maybe that's the reason for all the donuts )

Someday I want to try a "pancake" holster - one with two slots for your belt to go through. I figure one slot in front of the side belt loop and the other slot behind that loop should help anchor the position.

Keep in mind I vary between open and concealed depending on the weather and what coat or sweater I might have on, or whether the shirt is tucked or not.

 

[Ala Dan]

Expanding on this issue, I read somewhere that your choice of a CCW
should be comforting; not comfortable. Rest assured, I think it being
comfortable is just as important; cuz the way I see it, if it isn't then
you will have a tendency to leave your CCW behind.

 

[dmallind]

Just experimenting with carry for first time now so may evolve later but as a porky guy I find a 2.30 position just in front of the hip conceals best and feels must comfortable and accessible right now. I use a Fobus OWB paddle/Glock 19 setup and can get to it easily past the cover garment in this position. Because of my blubber 3.00 sticks out a bit too much I feel.

 

[garyk/nm]

Normally 4:00 iwb or owb with forward cant. Been experimenting lately with 5:00 and a LH holster for a palm-out draw. Feels more natural so far, but not enough practice to know for sure.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Primary carry is an SP101 OWB @ 3:30ish. IWB has to be more at 4 or 4:30 cause my boney hips get upset with the gun pressing into them!

I carry my Beretta mod 21 at about 11:30 or so, right behind the belt buckle.

Larger guns like my CZ97B or Beretta 96 are more at a 4-4:30 position for better concealment.

 

[Maddock]

Happy Birthday Chris!
I carry IWB in a Sparks Summer Special at about 4:00 = 4:30 with a 15-18 degree cant. Usually a 4-5†1911 or a 4†K or N frame Smith. I’ve been doing this for so many years that it seems odd to carry anywhere else on the belt.
I have noticed that barrel length is a factor in this. Shorter barrels are not nearly as comfortable or concealable. The longer barrel/slide seems to keep the handle “tucked inâ€. The 442 does go into a front pocket holster though. I used to carry my snubbies primarily in a series of Renegade ankle holsters, but as I grow older and stiffer (and plumper), I don’t want to bend over that far.
I’ve found that a wide (1 3/4â€) stiff belt is even more essential for IWB than a conventional OWB rig.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx for the wishes Maddock

I always wonder (and accepting your chosen habit of years) how that far round behaves when driving and sitting. I doubt I could cope with that myself when driving. Heck tho - the only thing that matters is what works!!