Quietest gun for self defense

[Zach S]

To me the answer is easy I would rather be alive and deaf than dead with my hearing.

I agree.

I realize you have already lost lost a good deal of hearing, and have to put up with that dern ringing (my tinnitus comes and goes - I feel your pain, just not always), but the odds are slim that we will ever be in a SD shooting. I view this as a case where the stakes are higher than the odds, and I choose to carry a 1911.

An unfortunate reality is that any pistol adequate for defense, and some inadequate for defense, will be loud enough to cause hearing damage.

For Home Defense where hearing loss is a concern, I'm a fan of pistol caliber carbines. A lot of sound in the report of a gunshot is powder that didn't burn in the bbl, which is the muzzleflash you see. With a pistol round, in a carbine bbl, more of that powder is burned.

My 16" bbled Thompson is pretty quiet, as I can hear the "ca-chink" of the bolt over the report of the rifle. My AR45 is quieter, due to the fact it doesn't have the "ca-chink" of the Thompson. My 9mm AR15 is noticeably louder than both, yet still much quieter than a 5.56 AR or 9mm pistol, and my 9mm AR saw HD duty for a long time. For me, a 9mm AR15 fired outdoors didn't result in a dialtone or ringing, although I don't recommend forgetting your plugs or muffs, as I did...

If you were a machinist, carpenter, or auto mechanic for a living and accidentally lost a hand you wouldn't consider it "part of the job."

No, but having done all three, I accepted the unfortunate reality that it was a possibility, and have seen it happen (well, no hands, but a few fingers).

On a side note, what do you play? And where? I'm just up the road in Erwin. Ain't heard a bluegrass band in a while.

Lately, I've been infatuated with dobros, but just stick with guitars, mainly because dobros are out of my budget at the moment. I don't know if youtube is helping me get my fix or making it worse...

 

[zxcvbob]

Personally, I choose my SD firearms based on what I believe to be the most effective for my capabilities. I do not choose HD/SD firearms or ammo based on how loud they may be indoors. I'm not going to try and stop BGs with a quieter, but less-effective weapon because the BGs will do more harm than some hearing damage.

But if there's a firearm that's almost as effective and 1/3 as loud you wouldn't at least consider it? (.357 Magnum 125 grain JHP vs. 38 Special 158 LSWCHP) I think the .38 is actually more effective because you can double-tap. That's very hard to do with a .357

 

[CWL]

But if there's a firearm that's almost as effective and 1/3 as loud you wouldn't at least consider it? (.357 Magnum 125 grain JHP vs. 38 Special 158 LSWCHP) I think the .38 is actually more effective because you can double-tap. That's very hard to do with a .357

Sure I would, but I wouldn't downgrade to a less effective caliber or round due to fear of potential hearing loss. I'd rather be alive than dead, everything else can be figured-out later as long as I'm still breathing. While placing your rounds on-target (COM & CNS) is most important, choosing your defensive firearms/ammo based-on the highest likelihood of penetration & possible expansion of bullets far outweighs how many dBs it may generate.

 

[coltsfreak18]

No such "license" required. Just need a $200 tax stamp and a CLEO signoff (or corporation/trust).

True, silencers are completely legal in Tennessee. Additionally, they are relatively easy to obtain and most CLEOs are receptive to them.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2008/07/class-iii-nfa-firearms-in-tenn.html

 

[benEzra]

.38 special from a 6 inch revolver? I am a musician too so i hear you (har har) on protecting the ears. We are used to opening our ears to hear more, which is bad with gunshots. I even plug my ears when a fire engine goes by.

Generally speaking, revolvers are louder than comparable-caliber semiautos across the board, due to the barrel-cylinder gap.

AFAIK, three things drive the amplitude of the sound: (1) the pressure differential at the gas/air interface, (2) the gas volume ejected, and (3) the bore diameter.

Short barrels increase loudness because pressure at the muzzle when the bullet exits the bore is higher in a shorter barrel than in a longer barrel, leading to a greater pressure differential when the bullet exits, and therefore a louder sound. But the greatest pressure differential of all is found in the annular discharge at the barrel-cylinder gap of a centerfire revolver; think how loud a 3000 psi gas cylinder vented through an annular slit would be, and then think about what it'd sound like at six or ten times that, 18,000 to 35,000 psi.

Here's a Schlieren photo of someone shooting a revolver; notice that the pressure wave centered on the barrel-cylinder gap looks to be comparable in amplitude to the second pressure wave centered on the muzzle.

 

[Old krow]

Which type of legal, non-supressed firearm poses the least threat for hearing loss?

Here's a table that I found posted on Glock Talk.

.22 caliber rifle 130dB
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB.
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB.
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB.
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB. In 18" barrel 163.2dB.
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB.
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB. 26" barrel 150.25dB. 18" barrel 156.30dB.
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB. 22" barrel 154.75dB.
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB. 26" barrel 156.10dB. 18" barrel 161.50dB.
.25 ACP 155.0 dB.
.32 LONG 152.4 dB.
.32 ACP 153.5 dB.
.380 157.7 dB.
9mm 159.8 dB.
.38 S&W 153.5 dB.
.38 Spl 156.3 dB.
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB.
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB.
.44 Spl 155.9 dB.
.45 ACP 157.0 dB.
.45 COLT 154.7 dB.

My questions was, "Which type of legal, non-supressed firearm poses the least threat for hearing loss?" I did not ask, "Would you rather be deaf, or dead?"

According to this data, the 18" 12 Ga is the third loudest, only surpassed by the magnum revolvers. The 30-06 is louder, but not really a consideration for HD/SD in most cases. They didn't list any pistol caliber carbines. My experience with them (not all that much) is that they are quieter than their shorter barreled counterparts, but I have nothing to verify that. It could simply be that they appear quieter to me because they operate in a frequency that I already have damage in and I just do not notice.

In short, there isn't THAT much difference in the dBs created by the listed firearms. I'd be interested in PCC data if anybody has it available.

 

[Zoogster]

Old Krow said:

My experience with them (not all that much) is that they are quieter than their shorter barreled counterparts, but I have nothing to verify that. It could simply be

They are much quieter because they use much longer barrels. As designed they would typically have over an 8" barrel, and because of the NFA most have over a 16" barrel.
Pistol powder is designed to burn fast, and reach a high pressure in a short barrel, but the total volume of gas created is much lower than in a rifle. This means that they also lose pressure much faster as the gas expands to fill the rest of the barrel.
By the time the bullet and gas exits the 16" barrel the pressure is only a fraction of the operating pressure of the round because the small volume of total gas generated has had to fill that entire barrel.
So a non-NFA pistol caliber carbine is typically going to be one of the most quiet firearms. They also make for the easiest firearms to suppress for the same reason, the amount of gas and pressure required to be negated at the end of the barrel is much lower.

A rifle round on the other hand is designed to reach and then maintain near the operating pressure in a long barrel. They spike up to pressure slower (which is why handgun rounds from handgun length barrels are typically more powerful than rifle rounds from handgun barrels), maintain the pressure longer which is how they generate all that power by continuing to impart more and more energy to the round, and are still at a higher pressure when the gas reaches the end of the muzzle.

 

[gym]

Keep a set of those sponge ear plugs on the nightable, even it you can just get one in the side where the gun is, it's gotta be better than nothing. I have a set of those cheapo sponge with the plastic headband, goes on is a second. If you have to leave the room and it's not a "bang, bang, situation", you will have time to use them. Downside is you will lose some hearing which you may need if there is someone in the house. Maybe one plug is the answer. The worse impact is going to be on the ear closest to the concussion. If the gun is centered, for a shot, "less likelly" at least you save one ear from the shockwave.
Chances are you may be taking a one haneded shot, even a cross body shot when walking down a hallway, it depends on your situation, and if you have kids in the house. Best idea is always if you don't have to leave your safe spot, call the cops and wait behind cover. All these things are unique so it's hard to say that there is a "best way".

 

[Zach S]

Keep a set of those sponge ear plugs on the nightable

They don't work properly until they're expanded - and when worn improperly, they do more harm than good.

Electronic muffs are a much better alternative.

 

[cluttonfred]

I am not expert in any of this, but logically you want a fat, heavy bullet moving slowly, you want the muzzle some distance away, and you don't want a revolver because of the gas leak. How about a lever-action carbine in .45 Long Colt loaded with the biggest bullets you can find? If you handload, or know someone who does, you could load up some 300 grain bullets at modest velocities that should minimize noise and still be very effective. If not, then 255 grain cowboy load at modest velocities are readily available.

 

[TenMillimaster]

as to NFA laws in tenessee, statute 39-17-1302 is the relevant law as far as NFA items are concerned. I believe there is a section beneath the prohibited items list that states that an registered NFA item is a valid defense to prosecution for possession which translates to yes, NFA items are legal if properly registered, etc. If in doubt, contact your local authorities?

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

 

[valnar]

To bring back this thread....

I read the whole thread and it sounds IF like you wanted a suppressed HD weapon, a .45ACP (subsonic of course) with a silencer would be the ticket, yes? I was thinking a Sig P220 would be ideal.

What I didn't read was....how much softer would that be? And second question...how much additional decibel loss is there with a couple sheets of drywall between you and a family member in an adjacent room?

In my case, electronic ear muffs may not be the best solution because I have a wife and kids in the house. While I could live with hearing loss if necessary, it would pain me to be the cause of my young daughter's hearing loss...even in the name of saving her life. I would rather take my chances with a baseball bat or pepper spray. (I'm not saying I wouldn't have a firearm ready and available if needed, but I wouldn't want to shoot it inside a house as my first choice.)

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

If you use the 60-gr Aguila .22 ammo, it works well in a tube-fed magazine. A Marlin 60 or Henry lever-action carbine would be good.

 

[gym]

I shot yesterday with the sponge earplugs, my 45, indoors, all lanes used. and they work just fine, no buzzing or ringing or anything else, My hearing is very close to perfect. The trick with them is to roll them up with a little spit, "if you don't have a chance to get water" and slide them in all the way.
A little practice and you can do it pretty fast.and on the run.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I have difficulty sleeping, so I wear earplugs to bed. I can still hear enough to know when something is amiss. The other night, I heard a bump and scratch outside the bedroom door. no kids at home, my dogs were outside in the backyard. I was up in an instant and had my .45 in hand within seconds. Turns out it was the stupid cat.

Most earplugs are designed to block out anything at certain decible levels, but I have discovered they tend to block out certain frequencies better than others. A low frequency at low volume will still get through my earplugs better than a higher freq. at the same volume.

Either way, if I had to fire any gun inside, I'd be glad for the ear plugs.

 

[Hummer70]

The shorty ARs are really bad. A 20" is about 156 db and the original shorty CAR15 was 188 db. The Army Medical Corps estimates ear drum rupture at 190 thus this is why the tubes were welded on the CAR 15s as they had made thousands of barrels so they put the tubes on and lower level to around 165 db.
I have a Rem 7615 and it is as very loud even with foam plugs and muffs.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=196566

scroll down to third post by Whirlibird and it will direct you to a site that should be of great interest to those who want to avoid noise.

 

[lemaymiami]

I'm not a guy who'd normally recommend a silenced weapon for anyone but a pro needing that particular quality - and trained in the various differences silencing makes in a combat situation...

For someone in your situation - I'd spend the money and go through the hassle of owning a well made silencer for a serious defensive weapon (handgun here- a silenced long arm is a hassle in close quarters). Once you have one, train seriously to learn to use it, it will be different than anything you're used to... One item that's little discussed is that the hearing protection we all use at the range can be a serious handicap in a survival (close quarters night time or low light situation) confrontation. Your ears are as important as your eyes when you can't clearly see your opponent. To get some idea of what I'm talking about just close your eyes for a bit and listen to the movements of pets and people in your house. With a bit of practice you can tell which way they're moving, where they are - and even distinguish individuals - all just by listening.

If I didn't have access to a silenced weapon I'd have to put my hearing on the line in a real combat situation. Nothing that diminishes your hearing is a good idea in a pure survival situation.

I'll get down off of my soapbox now....

 

[TwoWheelFiend]

Many moons ago my uncle had an IMI Timberwolf. It is a pump action carbine in .38 / .357 . With .357's in it you had to use hearing protection, but with .38spl, shooting outdoors it was quiet enough that you did not need ears. Obviously shooting indoors is a whole nother story. Why not a short, levergun in .38/.357?

 

[Loosedhorse]

Barring suppressors, a .22lr carbine will be quietest. The quietest more effective gun will be a 9mm carbine using subsonic HP ammo; it will still be loud. Lots available, from AR-15 style to Berreta Storm to...Hi Point.

Please let me also suggest a mouth cup as worn by boxers etc. Sound damage occurs thru your mouth also and wearing one of these in your mouth is the same as earmuffs for your ears.

I am unaware that hearing loss occurs via bone conduction at firearm noise levels, and unaware that if it did mouthguards would prevent that. As the NRA only teaches eye and ear protection, they seem unaware of it, too. Perhaps you could provide some documentation? If not, I'll assume error.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

You could build a rifle around the 60-gr .22 round. A bull barrel with 1:9 rifling would be quiet and accurate. A 25-round magazine and you're good to go.

 

[armoredman]

Quietest self defense firearm - Mosin Nagant with bayonet fixed.

Thanks, this thread inspired me to add a set of electronic muff to my Midway shopping list.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I know you said non-suppressed, but in your state, I think these things are legal. Just the ticket for not whacking your ears indoors.

[/IMG]

 

[Robbins290]

A colt lightning in 45lc with a long barrel is mild enough to shoot indoors with out muffs. A slam fire pump action is good for hd

 

[ATLDave]

a lot of people say in a true SD situation, they dont even realize the noise because of all the adrenaline...ears dont ring or anything

I'm no ear doctor, but people's subjective experience has nothing to do with what causes hearing loss. Hearing loss is a mechanically/physically explainable phenomenon. The fact that a person is too distracted to notice the loss at the time does nothing to avoid the loss, which is what the OP is asking about.

 

[mortablunt]

Well, you can opt for a crossbow. A suppressed 22lr is the closest you can get to "quiet". Not my words: The sound is like dropping a dictionary... in the next room.