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Rainier 125 Gr Copper Plated FP in 38 special

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by crooked stripe, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    I am having a impossible time finding a powder charge in Bullseye power for these bullets. I bought 500 at a garage sale for 15 bucks. I see other powders that I could use but all I have is Bullseye. Can I use it and where can I find out how much powder to use for putting holes in paper plates. I am new to reloading and I spend more time reading than loading. I sure hope this gets easier with time and experience. John
     
  2. bds

    bds Member

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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  3. Maj Dad

    Maj Dad Member

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    Alliant lists 4.5 gr for the Speer 125 JHP, so based on the info below, I'd try 4 gr. to start & see how it goes. I use their bullets with superb results - my Glock 21 will shoot the 230 gr into 3 in at 25 yds using 5.4 gr BE (IIRC - always an iffy thing late at night in the recliner... ;) )

    This is from Ranier's website (http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm ):

    We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.
     
  4. rick300

    rick300 Member

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    What are you shooting these from? If it will shoot .357 I have had good luck with Berry's 125 gn pfp over 7 gns of bullseye. Ruger gp 100 6". Don't put this load in a 38 special case. Hope this helps, Rick
     
  5. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    I think I will buy another powder that is listed and I will still be under the price of purchasing new shells. I appreciate all the info you folks are supplying but at this point in my reloading experience I don't understand your reasoning with varying the powder charges. May be in time I will feel more confident in trying different unlisted loads. The 357 case info never entered my mind as being shot from a 38. I thought it was the other way around.
     
  6. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    Bullseye is a great powder. You really need to pay attention so you don't get a double charge, as it can easily be done and not look much different in a 38 oe a 357 case. That said, if your pistol is a 357, you can use either 357 brass, or 38 spl brass in it interchangably. If your pistol is a 38, you are limited to 38 only. Both are good, I personally prefer the 357 for the versatility. Maj Dad & bds gave you good info and a starting point for your loads. I'd start at 3.5 and go from there. For punching paper plated will be just fine, and should be accurate enough. Have fun and ask away if you need more help with anything.
     
  7. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    I guess I got confused. I stated in my title 38 special so I didn't understand all the 357 info. Sorry, John
     
  8. evan price

    evan price Member

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    John, the Speer Gold Dot is also a bonded/plated bullet and will have a siilar profile and amount of slug in the case. Alliant as most powder companies do, will publish the most restrictive data they can find, knowing that you can always do better by changing bullets.

    You should have no trouble starting around 3.5-4.0 grains and working the load from there.
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Don't waste your money.

    Factory .38 Special ammo was loaded with Bullseye powder for about 75 years.
    It is just about the perfect powder for your 125 grain plated bullets.

    Rainer suggests you use lead bullet load data with their plated bullets.
    Alliant lists a 125 grain "Cowboy" load with a 125 grain lead bullet using MAX 4.8 grains Bullseye giving 1,024 FPS.

    If you want lighter plinking loads you can reduce it all the way down to a 3.2 grains starting load for about 600 FPS.
    Or anywhere in between.

    rc
     
  10. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    I added the 357 info in case you had a 357 and were shooting 38's out of it. Lots of folks do it, but not everyone knows about it. It was a just in cae kinds thing. :eek:
     
  11. bds

    bds Member

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    FYI, if you want to shoot 38 Spl loads in your 357, load your 38 bullets/powder using 357 cases and your cylinder will be cleaner near the barrel end. ;)
     
  12. Bush Pilot

    Bush Pilot Member

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    Bullseye is the chicken soup of loading for .38 sp. I've shot thousands of plated (and lead) 125 gr slugs using 3.5 grs of Bullseye. If there's a better powder for your needs I'd be hard pressed to name it.
     
  13. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Red Dot *might* be better for 125 grain bullets (about 4.0 grains.) But not a lot better.

    Try 4.0 grains of BE, and work up to about 4.4 grains or down to about 3.5.
     
  14. stodd

    stodd Member

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    +1 for RCModel... I just loaded up some 125 grain FP X-treme bullets which my understand are just about the same bullets both plated bullets.

    I used 3.2, 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5 grains of bullseye. Out of these 4 different charges the 3.3 and 3.4 grain charges shoot the best for me with a grouping of about 4". It was just a hair windy today, but the 3.3 and 3.4 grains shoot very good.
     
  15. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    stodd, this brings up another question. On my Lee powder measure there are no holes for 3.2-3.3 or 3.4 they start at 3.5. Do you use a trickeler for these loads or does your loader handle loads in small increments? This is one reason I was looking for another powder, I wanted to load up a hundred or so with out taking the time to trickle each shell.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  16. Red Cent

    Red Cent Member

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  17. 3leggeddog

    3leggeddog Member

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    38 special

    It would be in your best interest to by the NEW Lyman Third Edition
    " Pistol + Revolver " Hand Book . All the info you need is in there,its been up-dated to all the newer powers / loads. It also goes threw the steps of reloading quite well. It's the best $20.00 I've spent!!! Be carefully of some of these down loadable charts- I've found some their MAX loads to be very hot!!!

    Bullseye is a good powder, start low ,work up in steps. I have a M+P 9mm with a 3.5 in barrel. I tried 3.3 gr , 3.5gr and 3.7gr ... Being its a Automatic it shoots best with 3.7 gr of Bullseye. But thats MY gun, your's may like 3.5 gr. or less/more ???? I hope this helps you.
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    3.5 Bullseye under a 125 grain plated bullet would be a mighty fine light load.
    There is no reason to go any lower then that.

    rc
     
  19. ScratchnDent

    ScratchnDent Member

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    I've loaded and shot a couple thousand of the Ranier 125 gr FPs over 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

    It's a very pleasant, mild load.
     
  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Absolutely.
     
  21. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    Dissapointing results

    I fired off 2 of the first 7 I loaded. 3.5 grains of Titegroup through a #30 hole of a Lee powder disk and every other load was measured with a RCBS 10-10 powder scale that balanced right on the money. Recoil was way less than a factory load. Maybe half. I shot them into a 5 gallon bucket of sand covered by a old towel to keep the sand from flying all over the place. First bounced off the towel and landed on the floor. (don't laugh) and the second made it through the towel and disappeared in the sand. I called a friend and he said the shells weren't crimped tight enough. I followed the instructs that came with the dies as far as settings go then recrimped after checking the settings again. My friend is stopping tomorrow to check things out. At last I placed a factory load next to mine and the crimp is a lot more rolled over and is very shinny around the crimp. No way a factory crimp can be done with the settings written in the instructions. I am learning one must have quite a bit of experience reloading before buying his own press and starting from scratch like me.
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I'm confused. We have been talking Bullseye all along. Where did the Titegroup come from?

    Anyway, I taper crimp plated bullets in .38 Spl and .357. All it takes is a little bit. Sounds like you may have poor neck tension.

    My Speer #13 gives 4.5 Grains Titegroup with 125 Gr jacketed bullets for 933 FPS with a do not reduce warning. That is for fear of jacket separation. No problem with plated, but 3.5, as you found out, is very light. I would try at least 4.0 Grs Titegroup. It will still be light, but should be able to at least kill a towel.

    I use 4.0 Grs of Clays with a very similar Berrys 125 Gr TrFP in .357 brass. It gives around 900 FPS and is very light recoil.

    This load appears safe in my guns with my reloading technique. Start low and work up

    It is of course, being fired in .357 mag guns capable of handling .357 mag pressures.
     
  23. Centaur 1

    Centaur 1 Member

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    I found that 3.8 gr of bullseye works great in a .38 with either 125 gr plated or my cast 158 gr swc. I also use the same 3.8 gr under 125 gr rn cast in 9mm. Same powder charge works great for all three. I just recently got a lee powder measure from a friend, prior to that I just always used a scoop. I made my own scoop from a filed down .380 case that I put a handle on.
     
  24. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    Walkalong, at the time all I had was Bullseye but the Lees manual doesn't list a fast burning powder like Bullseye for 125 grain copper plated bullets. Lees only lists slower burning power like Titegroup, Accur#5 and v-3N37. Bullseye is not even near copper plated bullets in the listings. Not understanding everything I need to know, I was afraid to substitute even though you great folks are suggesting loads to use. The unknown is what scares me about loading. When I see it written I feel better. I hope you understand and I haven't created any hurt feelings. I hope in time I will fit in better as I gain experience.
    The instructions given with Lees equipment leave much to desired. I will post the outcome of my findings. Thanks again for all the info. So far this hobby has me addicted. John
     
  25. crooked stripe

    crooked stripe Member

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    One thing I forgot to mention, if I had a powder measure I could dial in to .10s of a grain I wouldn't have to sidestep the different powders to get what is listed on the charts and the numbers given here.
     
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