REL1203
Member
You are correct, I resized then trimmed, i just typed wrong.. Thanks for letting me know, will update post
Ran into a little problem with my 300WM Reloading
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You are correct, I resized then trimmed, i just typed wrong.. Thanks for letting me know, will update post
REL1203
Member
Yes, it seems everything I measured, including case length is all within spec.
blarby
Member
Then I'm going to assume its a shoulder problem- or a serious mechanical problem with your rifle.
Lets hope ya got some bad brass.
Lets hope ya got some bad brass.
REL1203
Member
ok, here are 2 more shots of the case head, one with flash, one without. This is not the round in question, but another one from the same pile, thats unloaded, been Full length resized, and wont chamber at all in my rifle and does the same thing where it slides the bolt in fine until the very last part.
so I have taken a few of my once fired brass that I shot as factory new rounds, and right above the belt the thickness is .511, almost all of them. Now I took some of the brass i bought (which OK, i get now was a bad idea, just looking to see if I can salvage it or what other type of dies I need), and all there thickness right above the belt is .513-.514, that is after a full size resize and running it through the Body die... Doesnt seem my Lee FL die is making that any smaller right above the belt...
so I have taken a few of my once fired brass that I shot as factory new rounds, and right above the belt the thickness is .511, almost all of them. Now I took some of the brass i bought (which OK, i get now was a bad idea, just looking to see if I can salvage it or what other type of dies I need), and all there thickness right above the belt is .513-.514, that is after a full size resize and running it through the Body die... Doesnt seem my Lee FL die is making that any smaller right above the belt...
blarby
Member
Ok, yup- thats your culprit right there.
Its not on the banding, which is why I was confused. Pictures are worth a thousand words sometimes.
Lee FL die wont go that far.
Pull what bullets ya can and save the components... pitch the brass.
Sometimes, the foundry gods are angry.... looks like thats what ya got. Short of lathing them down manually..... I'd say pitch em.
This can also occasionally happen when people load SUPER hot loads... It cant stretch on the belt ( thats what its there for) so it stretches at the next place it can.
Its not on the banding, which is why I was confused. Pictures are worth a thousand words sometimes.
Lee FL die wont go that far.
Pull what bullets ya can and save the components... pitch the brass.
Sometimes, the foundry gods are angry.... looks like thats what ya got. Short of lathing them down manually..... I'd say pitch em.
This can also occasionally happen when people load SUPER hot loads... It cant stretch on the belt ( thats what its there for) so it stretches at the next place it can.
REL1203
Member
All the factory rounds I shoot in it, it shoots amazing. The 50 or so shots I shot before this, with the WW Super Win brass, recipes with both RE22 and H1000, shot great, including a load of 76g H1000 on my 208AMAX that all 3 shots were touching... I got to think this brass is just bad, but even so, with this being bad, i would think the full length resizer would have sized that properly... Would the Larry Willis die work better? an RCBS Small Base Die? I dont care about the money or the cases I bought at this point, but I want to keep the good brass I do have in good working order (especially the new brass I have).
blarby
Member
I'll ask around, but I'm not sure of any dies that size that far down.
Look at it this way- If those are indeed pressure stretches... you were a hot load away from little pieces of rifle.
I'd be extra careful about buying second hand cases. At the very least I'd give them a serious once over with a set of digital calipers much like I do my range pickup brass before use.
Look at it this way- If those are indeed pressure stretches... you were a hot load away from little pieces of rifle.
I'd be extra careful about buying second hand cases. At the very least I'd give them a serious once over with a set of digital calipers much like I do my range pickup brass before use.
243winxb
Member
I think you may have found your problem.
Yes, his collet die will size the belt area, where Normal FL sizing dies do not touch. I feel this area should never expand. An over pressure loading will expand it. This is not a good sign IMO. I have never seen this problem when loading 7mm & 300 mags, but then i start with brass only fired in my rifles. Maybe it is common when using brass from another rifle, i do not know. Ask Larry, he posts on here. send him a PM. User name is " Innovative "
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blarby
Member
Well there ya go, where there's a need- someone invents the tool !
I would be wary of using this brass if its been stretched that far out of spec in that area, and then cold formed back into spec.
Kinda like bangin dents out of an Oxy tank and filling it- not a super idea. You've basically just created the spot where the container will fail
Gonna be lookin in to those larry dies though- never knew that was out there !
I would be wary of using this brass if its been stretched that far out of spec in that area, and then cold formed back into spec.
Kinda like bangin dents out of an Oxy tank and filling it- not a super idea. You've basically just created the spot where the container will fail
Gonna be lookin in to those larry dies though- never knew that was out there !
Innovative
Member
There is an answer to your problem ...
REL1203 .......
You can easily see the cause of your problem by just measuring case diameter (just above the belt) with the wide part of your calipers. New belted cases start out at .507" and when they become .513" they will not chamber in very many different rifles.
However, it's a common mistake for shooters to assume this only affects brass that has been fired in different rifles. Case bulges are especially common with belted magnum calibers, and the reason case bulge confuses so many shooters is that it doesn't happen to a case when it's in the chamber. It happens during the reloading process.
This problem is made much worse if you bump the shoulder back too far, because it causes belted handloads to stretch too much when they are fired. This makes your brass paper thin, and the continued stretching eventually causes headspace separation. Read my website, and you'll see how over 4,700 shooters have solved this problem with 2 of my patented reloading tools.
- Larry
REL1203 .......
You can easily see the cause of your problem by just measuring case diameter (just above the belt) with the wide part of your calipers. New belted cases start out at .507" and when they become .513" they will not chamber in very many different rifles.
However, it's a common mistake for shooters to assume this only affects brass that has been fired in different rifles. Case bulges are especially common with belted magnum calibers, and the reason case bulge confuses so many shooters is that it doesn't happen to a case when it's in the chamber. It happens during the reloading process.
This problem is made much worse if you bump the shoulder back too far, because it causes belted handloads to stretch too much when they are fired. This makes your brass paper thin, and the continued stretching eventually causes headspace separation. Read my website, and you'll see how over 4,700 shooters have solved this problem with 2 of my patented reloading tools.
- Larry
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Don't know if this helps but a buddy of mine wanted some 7mm mag reloaded. Resized some with his redding die set and they would not chamber. I then resized them again with my rcbs dies and they chambered. Come to find out the redding die resized the belt to .513 and the rcbs sized them to .511.
Innovative
Member
Sizing Die Limitations ...
Conventional FL dies can't consistently resize belted cases to .511" without also plowing brass towards the head of the case. The reason is that a conventional die needs tight contact on the tapered body, then it needs to squeeze down another .100" farther just to reduce case diameter by .001" and the belt restricts that movement.
The patented Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die squeezes belted cases ONLY inward to .510" diameter. The top of this die also works as a case width gauge to show when this extra resizing is needed - and when the case is properly resized.
Conventional FL dies can't consistently resize belted cases to .511" without also plowing brass towards the head of the case. The reason is that a conventional die needs tight contact on the tapered body, then it needs to squeeze down another .100" farther just to reduce case diameter by .001" and the belt restricts that movement.
The patented Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die squeezes belted cases ONLY inward to .510" diameter. The top of this die also works as a case width gauge to show when this extra resizing is needed - and when the case is properly resized.
General Lee
Member
Another option you have is a small base size die.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=139390
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=139390
gamestalker
member
What happens when you try to chamber an empty resized case? This is a practice I use when getting ready to load for my 7 mag rifles since I neck my brass. If I have to bump the shoulder back a little they'll get too tight, or so tight they won't chamber.
Innovative
Member
REL1203 ........
The small base die is a very logical solution. However, the diameter of a small base die (compared to your chamber) is way too tight. This causes brass to be plowed rearward against the edge of the belt. This build-up of brass is just above the web (solid part) of your case, and there's no way to compress it then. You can measure case diameter with calipers, and you'll see the whole story.
That's the reason I designed (and patented) the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.
The small base die is a very logical solution. However, the diameter of a small base die (compared to your chamber) is way too tight. This causes brass to be plowed rearward against the edge of the belt. This build-up of brass is just above the web (solid part) of your case, and there's no way to compress it then. You can measure case diameter with calipers, and you'll see the whole story.
That's the reason I designed (and patented) the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.
TheCracker
Member
I had a similar problem with some 308 loads once.
This was with brass that I had been neck sizing and needed to full size since the bolt was getting tight and I need full size to bump the shoulder back.
Basically I loaded about 90 rounds and then tested at home. They were WAY worse when closing the bolt and some would not even close.
So i pulled a couple and decided to full size the brass and test to see if just the case would close. It was still bad. So I started studying it and tried again. Then I noticed that the shell plate was not making contact with the die. Readjusted the die correctly and problem solved! I had to pull about 90 rounds!! That sucked. After resizing correctly there was absolutely no problem.
Long story short, make sure your brass is going all the way into the die and your shell plate is making FULL FIRM contact with the full sizing die.
This was with brass that I had been neck sizing and needed to full size since the bolt was getting tight and I need full size to bump the shoulder back.
Basically I loaded about 90 rounds and then tested at home. They were WAY worse when closing the bolt and some would not even close.
So i pulled a couple and decided to full size the brass and test to see if just the case would close. It was still bad. So I started studying it and tried again. Then I noticed that the shell plate was not making contact with the die. Readjusted the die correctly and problem solved! I had to pull about 90 rounds!! That sucked. After resizing correctly there was absolutely no problem.
Long story short, make sure your brass is going all the way into the die and your shell plate is making FULL FIRM contact with the full sizing die.
Innovative
Member
Non-belted cases are different ...
Hydrostatic Shock .....
Resizing is very simple with non-belted cases like the .308 Winchester. Your advice is logical, and it easily fixed your sizing problem with the .308 Win. However, it's a very different story when resizing belted calibers, and the worst thing he can do is to run the shellholder into a FL die.
Here's why:
Unlike the .308 Win., factory belted ammo always headspaces on the belt, and bumping the shoulder back too far causes serious cases to stretch (at the shoulder) when fired. That makes brass become paper thin, and every firing allows belted cases to thin (and bulge) even more.
That's why I recommend using the Digital Headspace Gauge. It measures the clearance that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber. Even though ALL rifle handloads must maintain the smallest clearance possible (at the shoulder), it's especially important with belted calibers.
Read about the Digital Headspace Gauge. It works on ALL different calibers, and it takes the guess work out of resizing handloads.
Hydrostatic Shock .....
Resizing is very simple with non-belted cases like the .308 Winchester. Your advice is logical, and it easily fixed your sizing problem with the .308 Win. However, it's a very different story when resizing belted calibers, and the worst thing he can do is to run the shellholder into a FL die.
Here's why:
Unlike the .308 Win., factory belted ammo always headspaces on the belt, and bumping the shoulder back too far causes serious cases to stretch (at the shoulder) when fired. That makes brass become paper thin, and every firing allows belted cases to thin (and bulge) even more.
That's why I recommend using the Digital Headspace Gauge. It measures the clearance that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber. Even though ALL rifle handloads must maintain the smallest clearance possible (at the shoulder), it's especially important with belted calibers.
Read about the Digital Headspace Gauge. It works on ALL different calibers, and it takes the guess work out of resizing handloads.
TheCracker
Member
I have zero experience with belted magnums except pulling the trigger on my brothers 7mm mag a few times!
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