I'm new here and this is my first post. Using commercial .223 fired brass from my son's AR I am not able to resize it properly. Tried both loaded and empty brass through my resizing die (RCBS) and then tested in my bolt rifles for function. Will not close on either of my .223 Rem rifles (Howa and a Vanguard). When I size one of my own fired brass they chamber fine. I am fully sizing the brass. Could the chamber of the AR be distorting the shoulder angle? Can some AR fired brass not be reloaded successfully? I'm lost on this.
.223 Rem resizing problem
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dawico
Member
That is a new one on me also. The resizing die should fix any problems that the chamber would cause, well, fix them enough to allow them to chamber anyways. I assume a visual inspection doesn't show anything. I'd run the calipers all over them and see what is amiss.
dawico
Member
How is the length? Did you check that?
highlander 5
Member
Neck size die or full length? I've never run into that one myself. Might want to invest in a case gauge.
Rollis R. Karvellis
Member
Is the case a .223, or a 5.56, if the chamber of your rifle's are tight, case's that are fired, in an AR, can be difficalt to chamber. I, helped a fellow with the same problem, my case's that were made with military brass would not chamber, but the one's made with regular Winchester case's, chambered just fine.
billybob44
Contributing Member
You say "I am fully sizing the brass". Are you using a "Full Length Sizing Die"?
I use RCBS+Redding .223 Full Length Size dies on any/all range brass+they will all fit my Ruger MKII .223 bolt gun.
If you are using a quality die you should have no problems. Screw size die down until it touches the shell holder with the press handle down. Place a lubed (Inside+Out) case+size. Try fit into your chamber. If bolt is tight to close, screw down size die 1/8 of a turn down at a time, until the case will chamber YOUR rifle properly.
You may have to turn in die 1/2 to 1 full turn before they fit your chamber properly.
I use QUALITY dies, shell holders,+size lube. Redding-RCBS+Imperial Size Wax. If you use the CHEAP tools+lube, your rounds may suffer for it??Bill.
I use RCBS+Redding .223 Full Length Size dies on any/all range brass+they will all fit my Ruger MKII .223 bolt gun.
If you are using a quality die you should have no problems. Screw size die down until it touches the shell holder with the press handle down. Place a lubed (Inside+Out) case+size. Try fit into your chamber. If bolt is tight to close, screw down size die 1/8 of a turn down at a time, until the case will chamber YOUR rifle properly.
You may have to turn in die 1/2 to 1 full turn before they fit your chamber properly.
I use QUALITY dies, shell holders,+size lube. Redding-RCBS+Imperial Size Wax. If you use the CHEAP tools+lube, your rounds may suffer for it??Bill.
billybob44
Contributing Member
This should not be the case. The .223 Commercial+the 5.56 Military brass is EXACTLY the same on OUTSIDE dimensions. It is the interior dimension that is smaller in Military brass. Check it out for yourself:
Take a fired Military case-fill with water+pour into a Commercial case==It will not fill to the top.
Take a fired Commercial case-fill with water+pour into a Military case==It will overflow the Military case.
The Military case has less internal volume space, that's why some load specs are different between .223 and 5.56 loads. The 5.56 loads will have higher pressure with the same powder charge as a .223, due to the smaller internal capacity. Check it out..Bill..
bigedp51
member
Make sure the resizing die is bottomed out and making firm contact with the shell holder. The headspace might be set a little longer on the AR and the die isn't pushing the shoulder back far enough.
It is possible to make your full length resized cases "LONGER" than they were before you resized at the shoulder. When full length resizing everything is being pushed inward and upward causing the shoulder to move forward. The last .010 of an inch of ram travel has a great deal to do with the final location of the shoulder.
Below, longer shell holders for the opposite problem and "NOT" pushing the shoulder back as far.
Below, sometimes the chamber is so tight the only way a full length resized case will fit the chamber is to shorten the shell holder to be able to push the shoulder back even more. The shell holder below is .003 shorter than normal.
Below an exaggerated example of a fired cartridge case at the red lines, the yellow arrows are the area of the shoulder that must be pushed back to fit your chamber. On a tight chamber like a bolt action the shoulder must be pushed back .001 to .002 smaller than the headspace length to ensure the case will chamber.
You are not pushing the shoulder/datum line back far enough to chamber your round.
Below, two 5 gal buckets of mixed .223/5.56 brass that were fired in M16/A4s, and full length resized and fit in my Stevens 200 .223 HB
It is possible to make your full length resized cases "LONGER" than they were before you resized at the shoulder. When full length resizing everything is being pushed inward and upward causing the shoulder to move forward. The last .010 of an inch of ram travel has a great deal to do with the final location of the shoulder.
Below, longer shell holders for the opposite problem and "NOT" pushing the shoulder back as far.
Below, sometimes the chamber is so tight the only way a full length resized case will fit the chamber is to shorten the shell holder to be able to push the shoulder back even more. The shell holder below is .003 shorter than normal.
Below an exaggerated example of a fired cartridge case at the red lines, the yellow arrows are the area of the shoulder that must be pushed back to fit your chamber. On a tight chamber like a bolt action the shoulder must be pushed back .001 to .002 smaller than the headspace length to ensure the case will chamber.
You are not pushing the shoulder/datum line back far enough to chamber your round.
Below, two 5 gal buckets of mixed .223/5.56 brass that were fired in M16/A4s, and full length resized and fit in my Stevens 200 .223 HB
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billybob44
Contributing Member
+1 to biged...
Thats good stuff+great picts. biged..This should help the OP..Bill.
Thats good stuff+great picts. biged..This should help the OP..Bill.
medalguy
Member
You said you "Tried both loaded and empty brass through my resizing die (RCBS) and then tested in my bolt rifles for function." Are you saying you put a loaded round in the sizing die? There's no way that would work. If this is what you are able to do, you definitely have something wrong.
243winxb
Member
Most dies do not size to the extractor groove, leaving the web area unsized. The web area may be to large, you could try small base dies. Most times, you are not pushing the shoulder back far enough. Basic rule of reloading. Do not use brass that has been fired in a different firearm.
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Dies should all size the "web" of the case, it is the solid "head" area they come short of. If the head has been expanded enough to prevent chambering the cases are trash. It is very likely the primer won`t stay in the pock if they are at this point.
I`d do as earlier suggested and set the die with the ram full up to touch, and then lower the ram and add a 1/8 turn to the die and lock it. Try a case sized this way and see if it will chamber, if not add another 1/8 turn. I don`t think you`ll need to go any further then this and should be able IMO to chamber the brass with just the 1st additional 1/8 added.
Be sure also to check the OAL of the brass after sizing. A sloppy chamber fired case when resized can grew a surprising amount and may be a hair too long to fit back in the chamber without trimming
edited to add; your best bet is to keep the brass from your sons rifle separate from yours.
You might also try a shim under the case in the shell holder to raise the case a small amount. This can be done in lieu of grinding material off the shell holder. I sometimes drag the shell holder over a sheet of fine emery paper to ensure flatness. Same can be done with the die, drag the bottom of the die over the emery paper too. Doing this will get rid of any burrs or manufacturing defects that may prevent a good mate between the die and the shell holder. Only a thou or two can make the differnce between chambering and not.
Some military .223 has less case capacity than commercial, and some has more. You just have to weigh them and check.
If the web of the brass has expanded to the point it will not chamber, I wouldn't use it, as it has probably been subjected to over pressure. The die will not size it there, nor should it have to.
Assuming the case length is OK, and that is not hindering chambering, it is possible you have some brass that was fired in a full auto weapon which is notorious for being difficult to size. A small base die may fix that.
It is possible, though not probable, that the die is out of spec and not pushing the shoulder back enough. If that is the problem, and the diameter is OK, you can remove a little material from the bottom if you are quite sure, but that would be a last resort once all other issues are ruled out.
If the web of the brass has expanded to the point it will not chamber, I wouldn't use it, as it has probably been subjected to over pressure. The die will not size it there, nor should it have to.
Assuming the case length is OK, and that is not hindering chambering, it is possible you have some brass that was fired in a full auto weapon which is notorious for being difficult to size. A small base die may fix that.
It is possible, though not probable, that the die is out of spec and not pushing the shoulder back enough. If that is the problem, and the diameter is OK, you can remove a little material from the bottom if you are quite sure, but that would be a last resort once all other issues are ruled out.
You could also try a small base sizing die and/or a Redding body die. Some rounds that have been fired in full auto guns will NOT chamber if resized in a conventional sizing die, the shoulders are actually rounded. The Redding die cures THAT, and the small base sizer is just nice for reliability in ARs.
I have mil brass ranging for early '70s to '07 or so. More often than not, the mil brass has virtually the same or more case capacity. The older the headstamp, the heavier (usually).
See post number nine.
WyrTwister
Member
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Have you checked the length of the brass and trimmed as needed ?
If you have to , buy a Small Base die .
God bless
Wyr
ranger335v
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" I am fully sizing the brass."
I wonder. How are you sizing now so you KNOW you're fully resizing and setting the shoulders back enough to chamber them all?
Try pushing a case into your FL die as you normally do and look under the die to see if you have a visible clearance crack between the die and the shell holder while the press is under full pressure. If so, turn the sizer down until the clearance is taken away.
I wonder. How are you sizing now so you KNOW you're fully resizing and setting the shoulders back enough to chamber them all?
Try pushing a case into your FL die as you normally do and look under the die to see if you have a visible clearance crack between the die and the shell holder while the press is under full pressure. If so, turn the sizer down until the clearance is taken away.
Clark
Member
You can adjust the sizer die down until it touches the shell holder... you will be trimming soon.
You can adjust the sizer die until you just push back the shoulder .001".... and then it will not fit in some other rifle.
What to do?
You can trim brass, you can buy brass, or you can dedicate brass to one rifle.
You can adjust the sizer die until you just push back the shoulder .001".... and then it will not fit in some other rifle.
What to do?
You can trim brass, you can buy brass, or you can dedicate brass to one rifle.
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