The Annoyed Man
Member
My son and I went to the range yesterday. I brought my Remington 700 VSF Left-Handed, and my son shot his 10FP HS Precision for the first time, so this was the first chance we had to shoot both rifles back to back. Both rifles are chambered in .308 Winchester.
Cost and Appearances:
Both rifles cost within $32 of one another in price at time of purchase (about a month apart with the Remington going for $831.00, and the Savage for $799.00), so I would not consider price a factor in deciding which rifle to buy. The Remington lends the impression of being a more refined rifle than the Savage, but the Savage still gives the appearance of being well made. I'm not expert enough to know if this should make a difference or not, but either the Savage bolt body is smaller around than the Remington's, or the inside dimensions of the action are larger than the Remington's; because when the Remington is loaded, the bolt body fills the ID of the action, and the rounds in the magazine below the bolt are not visible. On the Savage, on the other hand, there is a lot of room between the OD of the bolt body and the ID of the action, and the rounds in the magazine below are clearly visible through a rather large gap.
Functioning:
A trigger function comparison is a little bit of apples to oranges. My Remington has the original trigger, but I've had my gunsmith lighten it to 3.5 lbs, so it is not OEM. Add about $50.00 to the price of the rifle. Given that, it is a great trigger and I wouldn't change a thing about it from its current configuration. The Savage comes equipped with the AccuTrigger system. The Savage trigger has not been altered from the factory setting, and it took me a little bit of getting used to because of the amount of takeup on the AccuRelease on the front face of the trigger. Once it has been taken up, my seat of the pants estimate of trigger weight is 3-4 lbs. Both triggers break cleanly, with the very slightest edge to the Remington's.
As far as bolt function goes, I found the Savage bolt to be finicky and it did not operate as smoothly as the Remington's - including a disconcerting habit of freezing the trigger if the bolt was locked into battery quickly and firmly. When that happened, and it happened 2 or 3 times in quick succession, no amount of pressure on the trigger would fire the rifle, and I had to cycle the bolt again and close it much more gently to allow the trigger to fire the gun. In contrast, the Remington bolt was smooth and quick and positive feeling. By that time, each rifle had sent about 60 rounds down range, so maybe the Savage bolt was just dirty. But my Remington bolt was dirty too (including the previous 60 rounds it had fired as I had not cleaned it after the last trip to the range), and it never stopped functioning perfectly. The Remington action also appears to eject the cases further and faster than the Savage's, although that might be a liability on the part of the Remington for a sniper's application.
In all fairness to the Savage, we cleaned both rifles thoroughly when we got home, and I then function fired the rifle repeatedly, using snap caps, to try and duplicate the malfunction. At that time, the bolt cycled cleanly and smoothly, and I was not able to cause the trigger to freeze up again; so perhaps it was simply a case of needing breaking in and a good cleaning. Before yesterday's range session, I had already fired 100 rounds of Hornady 168 Grain TAP ammo through the Remington in two separate range sessions, and it was well run in.
Range Conditions and Ammunition:
Since my barrel has a 1:12 twist, I shot the Federal Gold Matchking 168 Grain HPBTs. My son's barrel has a 1:10 twist, so he shot the Federal Gold Matchking 175 Grain HPBTs. Range conditions were hot and humid at 95º at 50% respectively, with no wind to speak of. All shots were made from the bench, and I measured all group sizes from center to center of the two furthest most holes in each group. (I don't know if that's how it is supposed to be done, but that is how I did it.)
Results:
Both of us had to tinker with our scopes a bit before getting started "for points." I had to adjust my zero, and my son had to set his from scratch. Also, both of us had to make some ergonomic adjustments in the form of an added cheek rest to raise the comb on the Remington for me, and to get the hang of the new ergonomics on an all new rifle for my son. But, but once he got it dialed in, he started getting pretty good results on his Savage. He shot 6 sub MOA groups of 3 shots each. His group sizes were (I measured all groups center to center):
Although I have been shooting rifles for a number of years, my experience is limited mostly to one rifle, and old Ruger M77 MkII, in one caliber - .308 Winchester - so, I am by no means an expert. This is the first time I've ever tried to write a gun comparison review, and I've tried to be as thorough as possible, but I hope I wasn't too long-winded. I most especially hope that this review will be useful to anybody considering between purchasing either of these two very capable rifles.
Cost and Appearances:
Both rifles cost within $32 of one another in price at time of purchase (about a month apart with the Remington going for $831.00, and the Savage for $799.00), so I would not consider price a factor in deciding which rifle to buy. The Remington lends the impression of being a more refined rifle than the Savage, but the Savage still gives the appearance of being well made. I'm not expert enough to know if this should make a difference or not, but either the Savage bolt body is smaller around than the Remington's, or the inside dimensions of the action are larger than the Remington's; because when the Remington is loaded, the bolt body fills the ID of the action, and the rounds in the magazine below the bolt are not visible. On the Savage, on the other hand, there is a lot of room between the OD of the bolt body and the ID of the action, and the rounds in the magazine below are clearly visible through a rather large gap.
Functioning:
A trigger function comparison is a little bit of apples to oranges. My Remington has the original trigger, but I've had my gunsmith lighten it to 3.5 lbs, so it is not OEM. Add about $50.00 to the price of the rifle. Given that, it is a great trigger and I wouldn't change a thing about it from its current configuration. The Savage comes equipped with the AccuTrigger system. The Savage trigger has not been altered from the factory setting, and it took me a little bit of getting used to because of the amount of takeup on the AccuRelease on the front face of the trigger. Once it has been taken up, my seat of the pants estimate of trigger weight is 3-4 lbs. Both triggers break cleanly, with the very slightest edge to the Remington's.
As far as bolt function goes, I found the Savage bolt to be finicky and it did not operate as smoothly as the Remington's - including a disconcerting habit of freezing the trigger if the bolt was locked into battery quickly and firmly. When that happened, and it happened 2 or 3 times in quick succession, no amount of pressure on the trigger would fire the rifle, and I had to cycle the bolt again and close it much more gently to allow the trigger to fire the gun. In contrast, the Remington bolt was smooth and quick and positive feeling. By that time, each rifle had sent about 60 rounds down range, so maybe the Savage bolt was just dirty. But my Remington bolt was dirty too (including the previous 60 rounds it had fired as I had not cleaned it after the last trip to the range), and it never stopped functioning perfectly. The Remington action also appears to eject the cases further and faster than the Savage's, although that might be a liability on the part of the Remington for a sniper's application.
In all fairness to the Savage, we cleaned both rifles thoroughly when we got home, and I then function fired the rifle repeatedly, using snap caps, to try and duplicate the malfunction. At that time, the bolt cycled cleanly and smoothly, and I was not able to cause the trigger to freeze up again; so perhaps it was simply a case of needing breaking in and a good cleaning. Before yesterday's range session, I had already fired 100 rounds of Hornady 168 Grain TAP ammo through the Remington in two separate range sessions, and it was well run in.
Range Conditions and Ammunition:
Since my barrel has a 1:12 twist, I shot the Federal Gold Matchking 168 Grain HPBTs. My son's barrel has a 1:10 twist, so he shot the Federal Gold Matchking 175 Grain HPBTs. Range conditions were hot and humid at 95º at 50% respectively, with no wind to speak of. All shots were made from the bench, and I measured all group sizes from center to center of the two furthest most holes in each group. (I don't know if that's how it is supposed to be done, but that is how I did it.)
Results:
Both of us had to tinker with our scopes a bit before getting started "for points." I had to adjust my zero, and my son had to set his from scratch. Also, both of us had to make some ergonomic adjustments in the form of an added cheek rest to raise the comb on the Remington for me, and to get the hang of the new ergonomics on an all new rifle for my son. But, but once he got it dialed in, he started getting pretty good results on his Savage. He shot 6 sub MOA groups of 3 shots each. His group sizes were (I measured all groups center to center):
- 1/2"
- 1/2"
- 1/2"
- 3/8"
- 1" (2 groups of three shots each into the same piece of target, so it is hard to tell which are the first group and which are the 2nd, but it is safe to say that both groups were about 1/2" each.)
- 7/8"
- 3/4"
- 3/4"
- 1"
- 3/4"
- 3/4"
- 7/8"
- 7/8" (8 rounds, probably .5" for each 4 shots)
- I have 54 year old eyes and require glasses just to see the cross hairs clearly. My son, "Ol' Eagle Eye," is 17.
- I have a lower magnification scope - my son's maxes out at 24X and mine at 14X, although I have the advantage in quality of optics. My scope is a Leupold VX-III. My son's is a Bushnell Elite 4200. We both maxed out our scopes on magnification, consequently, he had a "closer up" view of the targets than I did.
- My son was shooting at 100 yards with a 100 yard zero. My scope was set to a 200 yard zero, so I had to estimate a 2" low hold for everything I aimed at.
- Each of my 4 shot groups included a "flyer." My son only shot 3 round groups with no flyers, so his barrel did not get as hot as mine. Had he shot 4 round groups, his group sizes might have gotten larger. I had several groups that, had I discounted the flyer, would have come in at 3/8".
Although I have been shooting rifles for a number of years, my experience is limited mostly to one rifle, and old Ruger M77 MkII, in one caliber - .308 Winchester - so, I am by no means an expert. This is the first time I've ever tried to write a gun comparison review, and I've tried to be as thorough as possible, but I hope I wasn't too long-winded. I most especially hope that this review will be useful to anybody considering between purchasing either of these two very capable rifles.