Range Manners re: Brass Showers

[KodiakBeer]

I find it interesting how so many shooters basically respond with "TS", requiring their fellow shooters to live with THEIR choice in firearm, THEIR flying brass and THEIR lack of consideration for others.

Let's reverse that and question whether it's appropriate for people to complain about what firearms other people should own. It's just a fact that firearms eject to the right, some more forcefully than others. Why not just accept that? If you're shooting a bolt action or a revolver and the semi shooter on your left bothers you, then ask the person to swap spots with you. Any considerate person would do that and if they didn't you'd then have an actual reason to call them inconsiderate.

 

[Bovice]

I get hit with brass all the time, and I don't cry about it on THR.

 

[Bullnettles]

I would have to agree with the TS argument. If you go to a range, be prepared, and I don't mean prepared to whine. Wear the proper attire THAT THE OTHER GUY IS PROBABLY IN and you won't have a problem. If you do, move and quite whining. This is sad it's an actual argument. I'll been burnt, but you know what? I dealt with it. Grow up people.

 

[frankge]

don't know about brass but my AK throws steel like a pitchers fastball - I do use a screen unless there is someone obnoxious or unsafe next to me

 

[CraigC]

Let's reverse that and question whether it's appropriate for people to complain about what firearms other people should own. It's just a fact that firearms eject to the right, some more forcefully than others.

I really don't care what other people own. I just care about where their brass lands. If it bounces of my head, I don't care. If it bounces off my $1500 custom Ruger, I have a problem. I'm not "whining", I'm talking about a stranger DAMAGING MY PROPERTY.

I still believe that those who have participated in the military or HP shooting kind of "get it", and those that have zero tolerance, don't.

Nope, I wouldn't expect somebody shooting in that setting to care. If I was shooting guns that either didn't belong to me, or those that had already seen military use, I wouldn't care either. In the real world, folks work hard for the money they spend on their guns and don't particularly care for some idiot throwing brass all over the place putting dents and dings in their property. I don't. As an example, I have a very lovely custom Ruger .44Spl that has a perfect little half crescent shaped indention in the cylinder flute from someone else's flying case.

How do I handle such situations? I don't set up directly to the right of anyone shooting an automatic. If I'm shooting and one shows up next to me, I either ask him to move to another position or I move. Luckily, these days I shoot on my own property so I don't have to endure inconsiderate people.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Whether it pisses you off or not, each one of us found out the first day we ever shot a semi-auto that brass can be tossed a few yards. No one is walking into this with their eyes closed. You show up to a range where you can't get far enough away from someone else? Go home. Or stay and deal with the brass.

 

[KodiakBeer]

If it bounces off my $1500 custom Ruger, I have a problem.

"Hey buddy, your brass is landing on my $1500 Ruger - could we switch spots so I'm on your left?"

Problem solved.

 

[CraigC]

Problem solved.

Try reading the whole post next time.

Problem solved, for real.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1541/Product/AR_15_M16_BRASS_SAVR_BRASS_CATCHER

For all you "TS" guys who don't seem to understand where I'm coming from, anytime you wanna go to the range let me know. You can buy a new car or truck and I'll buy a new rifle. We can get setup to shoot, I'll lay my rifle across sand bags to your right. You can shoot for two hours, slinging brass all over my new rifle and I'll be in the parking lot throwing rocks at your brand new vehicle.....for a little perspective.

 

[9MMare]

I've only shot at 2 ranges, mostly at an indoor urban one.

In my experience, not that many other shooters 'shower' brass sideways. Those that do, I dont find it hard to time my shooting bouts in between theirs. We all have to reload, examine our targets, re-think our positions, etc. Mostly we just grin to each other and I usually get the same courtesy (in timing) from the other party.

I also find it an opening to meet other shooters, learn about their guns, etc. Of course, I'm still fairly new to shooting.

 

[Flobert]

Hi new member here and: Wear a tight collar and you won't get hot under the collar!

 

[9MMare]

I personally don't mind if someone else's brass hits me or rolls my way as they shoot; it doesn't even happen that often. Usually the person either asks if they should move or they apologize if a shell hits me. I don't really mind it and I don't remember anytime anyone that has been rude about it. I haven't had a problem with MY brass hitting anyone ELSE, so I guess that's that. .

Same here.

And I'm pretty sure my brass bothers no one but me. Unfortunately, my 9mm often sends brass straight back in my face. It was distracting during IDPA practice, but I've learned to expect and ignore it.

 

[9MMare]

As I said before, CraigC, can you relate to having participated in high power shooting, or a military rifle range? The attitude that you interpret as "TS" is one of hard corps rifle shooting basics by professionals....is there any reason to expect less from a civilian range, or should we expect civilian shooters to not be so thin skinned? ..

If we are hoping to introduce more new shooters in America, and bring our families, including young people, to shoot, I think a little courtesy is worthwhile, as well as giving the new shooters a positive experience.

I'm pretty sure almost none have participated in what you mentioned...nor should that be a criteria for anyone to relate to when starting or participating in shooting, IMO.

Once hooked, hopefully they'll be willing to take the good with the bad. And maybe develop that 'thick skin.'

 

[Dookie]

I have a very lovely custom Ruger .44Spl that has a perfect little half crescent shaped indention in the cylinder flute from someone else's flying case.

This is a question, not being a smart ass, to much. I am trying to figure out in my mind how hard or fast a flying case would have to hit a hardened steel to actually indent it. If it was brass I don't see it happening, steel, maybe. But if it happened, and I have zero reason to doubt you, it almost sounds like the cylinder has soft steel.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Some folks would have us believe that showering brass is intentional and/or avoidable. It isn't. Some guns just throw brass. If you bring a high dollar gun (I'm sorry, your $1500 Ruger may not approach some of the $2000 plus high power rifles used by the best in the country for HP matches, and those guys will "sacrifice" -expose them to brass hits- their guns to be able to be on the line and shoot), and you are worried about external dings, better plan accordingly. If you air your complaint to the range owner/operator on most ranges, or, as I said, the professionals who shoot in national matches etc, they will probably tell you that sometimes "brass happens". As I said, you don't ever have to AGREE with the concept of allowing for "brass showers", but, by and large, the people who shoot more than you do don't have a problem with it. You MAY have a problem with that.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

You got into a sport you know can be dangerous to equipment and even your body. If the risks aren't worth it, you can always take up chess. You knew this from day one. You saw brass being thrown from pistols and rifles your first day you shot with other people. You could have backed out. You could go to a range where there aren't many people. You could go to the range at a time of the day there aren't many people.

If you choose to go to a range where there are a lot of people shooting semi-autos, you accept the risks. There are other sports for you to drop $2K into without risking your toys or feelings getting hurt. To me, even getting physically burned isn't even worth whining about, since I knew it could happen going in, and the fun of shooting is more than worth it. I have probably $2,500 in my AR-15. I know others have a lot more. But running through the sand, shooting, crawling, getting dusty, dirty, scratched, burned, and sweaty is worth it. That's what the weapons are for.

Again, if you expect the shooting sports to be more akin to golf, perhaps you should take up golf. Or at least find a range and a time of day you can be extra careful about your toys. The rest of us are here to shoot, and we know what it entails.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

9mmare, I have trained a lot of "newbies" in concealed weapons cert classes, where you get zero experienced shooters along with master class pistol shooters. It it part of the "experience" to get them acquainted with handling a pistol, and sharing the range line with maybe 20 other shooters. Revolvers, semi-autos, showering brass, people screwing up and sweeping others, etc, we have it all. Brass occasionally hitting a shooter to the side is not uncommon. We do not stop the exercise to make sure no one gets hit with a MOSTLY harmless piece of brass. We do advise that anyone having a PROBLEM with it step back and wait to shoot when the person whose brass is pelting them finishes. To all, remember this, you are on a shooting range, on a shooting line, and others besides YOU are shooting. You have got to KNOW that some guns EJECT THEIR BRASS and that ranges are not going to STOP ejecting brass, or those shooting guns that do. IT IS PART OF SHOOTING, and part of shooting on a range you share with others. Granted, some guns are more gressive than others in this regard, and if it is abnormal, or extremely offensive, then reasonable people should be able to come to reasonable terms for helping or fixing the "problem". But to expect to be able to cause a cease and desist all the time over a flying brass is also unreasonable, based on the nature of the weapons and common shooting ettiquette by current PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.

 

[9MMare]

But to expect to be able to cause a cease and desist all the time over a flying brass is also unreasonable, based on the nature of the weapons and common shooting ettiquette by current PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.

I never even implied such a thing. Your comments seem a bit extreme.

My comments were regarding this:

As I said before, CraigC, can you relate to having participated in high power shooting, or a military rifle range? The attitude that you interpret as "TS" is one of hard corps rifle shooting basics by professionals....is there any reason to expect less from a civilian range, or should we expect civilian shooters to not be so thin skinned? ...

I dont see how such criteria would or could be related to by people just learning...who may not even have been exposed to a gun before or heard one shot in person.

 

[springmom]

Well. Yeah, if I'm getting pelted with every single bloody piece of brass, it's going to cramp my style. At that point, the thing to do is to talk to the other guy (often my husband, ROTFL) and say, hey, let's alternate; you shoot a mag, I shoot a mag. Nobody (even my husband! ) has ever refused. People will usually do the right thing, if given the opportunity without being insulted or threatened.

Jan

 

[russ69]

In the legal sense, let's talk about property/personal damage. I think a judge would conclude that there is a reasonable expectation that some brass might be ejected onto a person or a persons property when shooting at a range. Because this expectation exists, all people at the range have assumed the risk that some damage/injury could occur. It's no different than a foul ball at a baseball game.
In other words, you have to protect your own property or person to insure safety for yourself. It's your responsibility, not the other shooters. Would it be the other persons responsibility if their guns were too loud or their bullet jackets bounced off the backstop? No, that is the risk you assume.

Thanx, Russ

 

[JohnKSa]

You can shoot for two hours, slinging brass all over my new rifle and I'll be in the parking lot throwing rocks at your brand new vehicle.....for a little perspective.

That's not any kind of reasonable perspective.

What is happening to the rifle is something that happens inadvertently at every range in the country and that is an expected issue that one must deal with if they choose to shoot at a public range. No one is intentionally damaging the rifle, brass flies at the range and if a person goes to a range expecting that he can escape ever being hit by brass or if a person takes a rifle to a range expecting that he can keep it from ever being hit by brass he will be disappointed because his expectations are unrealistic.

The best a person could do would be to never set up to shoot except on the far left of the line. If a person sets up anywhere else then he can expect that some brass will come his way from time to time. A person who can't tolerate that prospect shouldn't shoot at a public range.

What is happening to the car is vandalism. Someone is intentionally damaging property. One does not park a car and expect that it will be pelted with rocks nor is a car being pelted with rocks a normal issue that one expects to deal with in the parking lot of a shooting range. It's not even roughly comparable to accidental damage to a firearm due to flying brass.

At shooting ranges there are loud noises and there is flying brass. It is unreasonable for a person to go to a shooting range and complain about noises and flying brass. It is even more unreasonable to go to a shooting range and get irate at other shooters because their guns make noise and throw brass.

I try not to shower other shooters with brass but sometimes my brass will land on the shooter next to me just as the brass from the shooter near me will land on me. It isn't fun, but it's part of the cost of shooting at a public range--it's CERTAINLY not equivalent to intentionally damaging another person's property.

 

[msb45]

To be clear I'm not in the TS camp. But out of 200 rounds I may find a half dozen cases in my shooting stall. It happens.

To me the situation is a combination of mixing long guns and handguns along with people not shooting "over the line". With all hand guns if you project your weapon over the line brass will generally fly across the shooters in line and not into the shooter. Standing back will put it INTO the shooter. Standing in the right place is my act of courtesy to avoid the issue. It is also a matter of safety. The firing line should be strictly maintained to also avoid muzzle sweep. TEACH this to all new shooters!

With mixed long and hand guns the ejection port is closer to the adjacent shooter. Thats where distance and line position make a bigger difference.

As for practice I'm not playing GI Joe or Rambo. I'm doing normal defensive pistol shooting. I realize there may be bench rest shooters, hunter's sighting in, or plinkers. Let's not get into whose Kung Fu is more powerful. We need to band together against anti-gunners, not give them fodder.

 

[Bluehawk]

SharpDressed..
I was in the Army...I don't recall ever being pelted by brass during qualification with the 1911A1..the M14 or the M16...were we in different countrys' services??
The only time I ever was pelted was M60 MG practice and only because we were lying so close to each other on that one particular day...and my loader to the left was getting the bulk of it!
It's common courtesy to know where your brass is landing if you have someone in it's path and to ask to switch places if it appears to be a problem. Folks with the TS attitude most likely have the same feelings for others when away from the range and are not worth knowing.

 

[bigfatdave]

The best a person could do would be to never set up to shoot except on the far left of the line.

I have a gun that throws to the left

 

[KodiakBeer]

I hate it when somebody stands in the place I want my brass to land. It's just poor manners...

 

[thorazine]

It's VERY ill-mannered, particularly when the brass gets hot.

This reminds me of the one time I was told by a gray hair that my guns were "too loud".

Brass showers and big bangs are just part of shooting.


Golf is an option if you don't like it. =P