Range Report: 2 1/2" S&W Model 19

[Stephen A. Camp]

I did this report a good while back. Today, I got around to chronographing various loads from that revolver. I will no longer use nor recommend Federal 125 gr .357 Magnums in the shorter-bbl'd revolvers.

Hello.

I've always had a "thing" about this particular version of S&W's "Combat Magnum." Foolishly, I let a couple of older ones get away in trades and currently have the 2 1/2" Model 19-6. While I do like the little thing and it has a very good DA pull, I do kind of miss the pinned bbl and recessed chambers. Oh, well, at least it came with a smooth trigger-face.

This one's not been shot much over the years I've owned it; it seemed that simply "having" it was enough. Today, I decided to try some "serious" work with it.

The Revolver: Other than sticking a set of Eagle Secret Service checkered stocks on it, the gun's stock.

With a proper holster, the gun can be easily carried and concealed, but have kind of a "business-like look," should it have to come out.

Ammunition Used: The following loads were used today at distances from 10 to 25 yards.

Two full-house .357 Magnum loadings were used:

Remington 125 gr SJHP
Federal 125 gr JHP (Both of these are advertised at 1450 ft/sec. I suspect they're doing around 1350 to 1375 ft/sec out of this gun.)

One mid-range .357 Magnum load was fired:

Remington 125 gr Golden Saber (About 1150 ft/sec)

One handload was tried. It's a moderate load that can be used quite a bit for practice, but feels like a "magnum" rather than a light thirty-eight.

158 gr CSWC
Starline Cases
Winchester SP Primer
7.0 gr. Unique
Est. Velocity: Around 1100 ft/sec

Since some folks prefer to carry a hot .38 Special load, I also tried the gun with Remington's +P .38 Spec 158 gr LSWCHP.

Continued...

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

...

Shooting: Except for the double-action 10-yard "test," all shooting was done single-action, two-hand hold, standing.

The first thing I needed to do with this revolver was to determine where the POI would be for the various loads as there's quite a bit of latitude in both velocity and bullet weight. I fired 3 shots at this target from 15 yards. The pistol's sighted in for the Remington 125 gr SJHP and I wanted to see where to hold for the groupings to follow. While it kind of looks like "hen scratching," you can see the varying POIs for the same POA.

10 Yards: Now knowing the slight variations in POA, I fired single-action groups at 10 yards. Each group consists of a cylinderfull.

Note that the lightest-recoiling round of all made the largest group! Don't know if this particular revolver just doesn't "like" dead soft lead or if it's a combination of that plus the slight "jump" the shorter .38 makes in the .357 Magnum's cylinder chambers. I'm sure there's some human error in there, too.

15 Yards: Also 6-shot groups fired single-action, standing w/2-hand hold. Note that the .38 Special load at the lower right doesn't quite group as tight. Yup! I did let a couple of the other loads go when I shouldn't have, but I knew it at the time. ALL of the .38 shots felt "good."

Top left moving clockwise: Handloaded .357, R-P 125 gr SJHP, R-P .38 Special +P 158 gr LSWCHP, R-P 125 gr Golden Saber, with the middle group being Federal 125 gr JHP.

25 Yards: Twelve shots were fired at this distance in the same manner described previously. Six were Remington 125 gr SJHPs while the other six were the handload. You can tell which were the SWCs by the cleaner cut holes in the target and even if you can't, it becomes obvious that the human error is greater than the difference in the two loads' points of impact.

10 Yards, Double-Action: There's little doubt that this revolver's primary purpose is self-defense. For that reason I fired two 6-shot groups with it double-action @ 10 yards. The loads are again the Remington full-house 125 gr JHP and the handload. At this distance, one can see some differences in POI vs the same POA, but unless shooting at 1" dots, it makes little difference. Accurate shots can still be had allowing for use of the hotter factory JHP while practicing with the handload. At least that's the way I see it.

It was still kind of wet at the range from previous rains, so I fired a round or two for "scientific mud testing" for expanision! As stated in previous reports, this has little validity I'm sure, but I find it interesting and perhaps others do, too.

The expanded bullet/cartridge @ left is the Remington while the other's the Federal JHP.

Sorry, forgot the toothbrush to clean off the mud!

Observations: While I do like this little thing, one might ask if the K-frame snub in this caliber is an anachronism? After all, with the mid-range defensive .357 loads, ballistically we're in the 9mm +P "ball park," with some of them beating us in velocity from 3.5 to 4" bbl pistols. Many handguns, including some of the 9mms, are flatter, lighter, and easier to shoot well. For me, this revolver's too large for any hope of pocket carry and the adjustable sights go against that as well as they could truly snag coming out of a pocket. If carried as a belt gun, I do think the 4" version is just about as easy to conceal unless one insists on waist-length jackets and that extra 1 1/2" of bbl makes the gun MUCH easier to get good hits with. Yet, one could also carry the light, flat Commander in .45 ACP...
Hmmmmmmmmmmm? What's it good for, then?

Well, some folks just like 'em. "Right" or "wrong," I just plain like this thing. I'll bet there are some others out there, too. Whether it's ego or whatever, I just plain enjoy trying to kind of keep my "hand in" with various types of handguns.

While it would NOT be my first choice as a defensive arm, I'd much rather have it than many other handguns commonly toted for protection. The gun's versatile as are all revolvers in this caliber; one can shoot everything from mid-range .38 wadcutters to std velocity .38, to +P .38, to mid-range Magnum, to the real thing! Select the load that's right for you and set the sights. Nice.

Some folks just don't trust automatics. While I think a 4" gun has more to recommend it, this one MIGHT be the choice and it can be shot fairly accurately. It made me "work" and that might just be a benefit when shooting my other longer-bbl'd revolvers.

....and you can roast weenies in the muzzle flash if you're hungry!
Bahahahahahhahaha!

This one's on constant "house duty." I trust it and think it would do fine in the home defense scenario. I can lay my mitts on this one pretty quickly and think it would handle most felonious assault type situations.

The full-house magnums are the way to go in my opinion. Yes, they do have sharp recoil, but really are not all that bad. Mine stay's loaded with Remington 125 gr SJHP. IF that's too much, go with the mid-range defensive loads, but I'd sure try and stay at least at that level. The step downward to the .38s is just a bit much, at least to me, in an all-steel, K-frame revolver.

Best.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Chronograph Results...

Hello. I finally got around to chronographing some factory rnds as well as one handload from the same Model 19 snub used in the original "Range Report."

Ammunition: The ammunition below was choronographed from the 2 1/2" Model 19 with average velocities based on 12 shots, two-cylinders-full, fired about 10' from the chronograph.

.357 Mag Remington 125 gr. Golden Saber:
Average Velocity: 1141 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 161 ft/sec
Std. Deviation: 49

.357 Mag Handload:
158 gr Rucker CSWC
7 gr. Unique
Winchester SP Primer
New Starline Case
Average Velocity: 1100 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 76 ft/sec
Std. Deviation: 22 ft/sec

.357 Mag Federal 125 gr JHP:
Average Velocity: 1058 ft/sec !!!!
Extreme Spread: 204 ft/sec. !!!!!
Std. Deviation: 67
(This is the largest extreme spread I've ever seen in this caliber and with this factory load.)

.357 Mag Remington 125 gr SJHP:
Average Velocity: 1243 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 80
Std. Deviation: 28

.357 Mag Winchester 110 gr JHP:
Average Velocity: 1166 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 112
Std. Deviation: 40

Since some folks like to carry Plus P .38 Special ammo in the smaller .357s, the following two .38 Special loads were chronographed as well.

.38 Spec Federal 129 gr Plus P HydraShok:
Average Velocity: 846 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 80 ft/sec
Std. Deviation: 30

.38 Spec Remington Plus P 158 gr LSWCHP:
Average Velocity: 858 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 68
Std. Deviation: 24

The biggest surprise to me was the extremely low velocity from the full-house Federal 125 gr JHP from this revolver as well as the high inconsistency shot for shot! From this same box of ammunition, average velocities in longer bbls have been much higher and much more consistent. It appears that at least in this revolver with this lot of Federal ammo, the load is very inefficient and should be avoided.

It also becomes obvious that while not so fast/potent as in even slightly longer bbls, the .357 Magnum does offer significantly more promise than does the .38 Special loads tested.

Best.

 

[BigG]

Thanks! I had a nickel 2 1/2" Model 19 that I let get away.

 

[Blueduck]

The numbers on the Fed 125 were stunning, somethings really wrong there.

Maybe a bad lot???

 

[Coltdriver]

Stephen,

Thanks for your report and writeup.

You have one pretty pistol there. The Model 19 does have a serious business look to it and I think the grips you have on it are the best looking grips for any model of S&W revolver.

So many pistols, so little time

 

[Hutch]

I'm with Duck. Loooong time ago, I chrono'd that load (still in the red/white box) in a 2.25 inch SP101, a 3" 65, a 4" (uhhhh I forget), a 6" m28 and a 10" Contender. The SP101 was about 1250, IIRC, 1600 in the M28, and (gasp) a right at 2000FPS out of the Contender. Reckon if your ammo is a bum lot, or if Federal went all wobbly on that load? I haven't chrono'd anything of the 357B load in the silver box. I'd hate to think all my .357 carry ammo was dreck!

 

[ACP]

Thanks, Mr. Camp. As soon as my M19 is back from the gunsmith
-- squib load from a local reloader plugged the barrel -- I'm going to try those Golden Sabers.

BTW, did you have any ammo failures with the Winchester 110-gr. JHPs? Is that the white box stuff? I once had two or three bad primers in a box of 50. And, yes, those duds did get a second chance under the firing pin...

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. No, these were sold under the name of Winchester's "Super X." There were zero failures to fire with any of the ammo used today.

Best.

 

[popeye]

Mine

 

[MikeJ]

Thanks for the in depth report Stephen. I have the 2 1/2" 66 and dearly love it. I keep it as my "office" gun and currently have it loaded with 125 grain Speer Gold Dot .38+P's but am interested in trying the Golden Sabers. Do you still get as much blast from these as the full power 125 grain versions and is the noise level as loud? By the way those grips are beautiful. What is the wood they are made from? Thanks, mike

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The Eagle Grips are their "Secret Service" model and are checkered rosewood. (See www.eaglegrips.com, if interested in options and pricing.)

Frankly, I'm not sure if they're as loud as full-house magnums or not. Blast did seem "more" than with either of the +P .38 Specials tried, but I really wasn't focusing on that and was wearing hearing protection.

Best.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Looks like the perfect gun/load if you're ever attacked by a pack of clay golems...

 

[Dave Williams]

Great Report

Thanks Stephen.

popeye, nice looking piece.

I've always wanted to pick up a 2 1/2" 19 or 66. One thing I've noticed is you NEVER see one for sale. People tend to hang on to these things.

Dave

 

[caz223]

Another excellent range report.
I never considered the model 19 pretty until just now.

 

[10-Ring]

Well done....AGAIN! Finding a 2 1/2" 19 would go perfect w/ the 4" I just bought. Thanks for the report, keep up the great work!

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Glad ya'll liked the post.

Best.

 

[Lone Star]

Mike J-

I've used both Golden Sabers and the discontinued medium-velocity "regular" Remington .357 ammo.

I THINK the noise may be less than hotter magnum ammo, and the recoil is definitely less. The stuff shot to the sights of my four-inch M66 (set for 158 grain loads), and was very accurate.

I'd say to try it. Of course, it only approximates a hot 9mm ballistically, but that isn't to be sneered at...

Lone Star