Range Report, .58 cal smooth bore TC Trapper.

[Ugly Sauce]

Just some fun stuff, but food for thought. I have found in the past that one can shoot some pretty undersize ball in a Muzzle loader. I had the idea earlier of trying some .530's in the Little Beast.

So, I chewed some up, and loaded them up double-ball over 100 grains of 2fg Swiss. The load was: a wax wad over the powder, a chewed .530" in a .023" patch, a wool wad, and then another .530" in a .023" patch. The bore on the Little Beast is spot on at .580", the patched ball went down nice and easy, but not fall-down-the-barrel easy. Easy to load in a fouled barrel easy.

The first shot out was a single bare-ball load, 100 grains 2fg, chewed .570", with wax wad over the powder, and wax wad over the ball to hold it in. That shot was at 50 yards, and is the hit on the cardboard to the right of the top/upper paper plate. Not "great", but not crazy bad. It was already loaded in the barrel from my last hike. That load groups okay at 25 yards, minute of grizzly face for sure, and without flyers.

I shot the first .530" chewed double-ball at 35 yards, it is on the bottom plate.

Loaded up a second load, moved the target back to 25 yards, and it is the snake-eyes on the bottom of the upper plate. I'm not sure/I wonder if either one of them was a fluke, seems like a big difference in spread with only around 15 yards or so difference in yardage. Perhaps the spread is not consistent. Luckily none went far enough right to hit the dawg. Patches from both loads looked/were normal and in good condition. All the wads pretty much went all the way to the target.

Which load would you guys shoot grizz in the face with? Single .570" ball over 100 grains of pixie dust, or two .530" balls over the same? Would the single .570" penetrate deeper? More overall damage with the two .530's? And a greater amount of lead? Recoil with a single .570" ball is not "too bad" in that light gun. The double .530" ball load on the other hand, again in a six pound gun, has a pretty ferocious kick, with a total of 440 grains of lead, compared to a .570" ball's weight of around 278 grains. (or something like that) However, recoil is not a factor, as it's only going to be shot once. Don't think Grizz will let me reload.

Okay, the dawg, Sir Charles Mackenzie-Lopez, aka "Charlie", says: "thanks for listening".

 

[windini]

Which load would you guys shoot grizz in the face with? Single .570" ball over 100 grains of pixie dust, or two .530" balls over the same? Would the single .570" penetrate deeper? More overall damage with the two .530's?

Hypothetically speaking - since I would not be likely to encounter Mr. Grizz here in Appalachia! - I would go with the single .570 ball. Your test seems to show a wide variation in spread between shots. Without extensive additional testing/patterning to confirm the "snake eyes" result is more likely than the "dawg is safe" result, I'd be leery of facing off with brother bruin with only one shot.

My 2 cents. But I enjoyed your post & pics!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I agree. The next step will be to shoot several double-ball loads to get a better idea of the variation. Was in kind of a hurry today so I just grabbed the four balls, patching, wads, powder, caps, etc. And had to go to the garage to chew the balls!!

I too am leery of such an encounter, but my love of wandering the North woods with an old smoke pole is great. And, statistically, the 80 mile drive up North is more dangerous than the chances of actually having to shoot grizz. I've had two encounters with grizzly bears, and they both ran off at high speed, like I was the devil himself. !! Thank you for your two-cents. I shall spend it wisely.

 

[woodnbow]

Single ball. Heavier, deeper penetration. In your shoes I might even experiment with 20 or 30:1 alloy. Seems like Samuel Baker did that in Africa with his big bore dangerous game rifles. He didn’t want any expansion at all hoping for a long straight penetration through 2 to 4 ton beasts. His rifles were .80-.95 caliber or so. 3-400 grains of push powder.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Single ball. Heavier, deeper penetration. In your shoes I might even experiment with 20 or 30:1 alloy. Seems like Samuel Baker did that in Africa with his big bore dangerous game rifles. He didn’t want any expansion at all hoping for a long straight penetration through 2 to 4 ton beasts. His rifles were .80-.95 caliber or so. 3-400 grains of push powder.

Not a bad idea. If I'm going to play ball with Grizz, and only one inning, might as well be hard ball. !!! I need to cast up some ball and bullets anyway. I suppose if a sub-caliber double-ball load was superior, Baker and his pals would have used it.

 

[Patocazador]

Why not two .570 balls with thin patches ... and a thick shoulder pad?

I have always thought that's what "loaded for bear" always meant.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

That's what I shoot in my "Zouave Trapper", .58 cal. I'm not sure about a double ball load in the TC pushing that much lead. Which would be over 550 grains. The "Zouave" has a much thicker stock (wrist) and breech, plus in the past when I was young and dumb I "proofed" it with heavier loads than that. I shot a 565 grain slug over 120 grains many times. These days...not so brave. So, I'm a bit leery of doing that. Recoil, no concern.. But, I may up the charge from 100 to 110 grains, for a single ball. That's gonna hurt enough. On both ends.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Heck I didn't even know this "double ball" thing is something people did. I assume this is only safe because it's a smoothbore?

 

[hawg]

I would go with a single hard ball with a heavy powder charge but remember hard lead doesn't shrink as much when it cools as soft lead does so your balls will come out bigger. Is there any reason to use "chewed" balls?

 

[Appalachiannative]

I would go with a single hard ball with a heavy powder charge but remember hard lead doesn't shrink as much when it cools as soft lead does so your balls will come out bigger. Is there any reason to use "chewed" balls?

I have no idea what he means by "chewed" either. I wonder if it's kinda the same idea as a rifled slugs

 

[woodnbow]

Heck I didn't even know this "double ball" thing is something people did. I assume this is only safe because it's a smoothbore?

People do it in rifles too. Personally I think it’s easier to just load a bullet of the weight you need rather than two balls. Or get a bigger gun.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I have no idea what he means by "chewed" either. I wonder if it's kinda the same idea as a rifled slugs

Chewed balls are roughed up, kinda like the dimples on a golf ball. Supposed to help with aerodynamics.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Chewed balls are roughed up, kinda like the dimples on a golf ball. Supposed to help with aerodynamics.

Well that seems weird. I always figured a perfectly round ball helped. Of course hand cast balls have that point on em from where the lead flowed into the mold

 

[Appalachiannative]

People do it in rifles too. Personally I think it’s easier to just load a bullet of the weight you need rather than two balls. Or get a bigger gun.

Seems like one of the balls would be a flyer

 

[dave951]

Well since y'all think Mr Griz can only be vanquished by lots of powder and lead, better safe than sorry. Praise tha Lawd and pass the ammonition.

 

[hawg]

Well since y'all think Mr Griz can only be vanquished by lots of powder and lead, better safe than sorry. Praise tha Lawd and pass the ammonition.

View attachment 1192755

That would at least get his attention.

 

[hawg]

Well that seems weird. I always figured a perfectly round ball helped. Of course hand cast balls have that point on em from where the lead flowed into the mold

Mine just have a little flat spot. Load it at the top and no worries. Load it at the bottom and kiss accuracy goodbye. I've never tried it but I kinda doubt any improved accuracy with "chewed" balls.

 

[woodnbow]

Mine just have a little flat spot. Load it at the top and no worries. Load it at the bottom and kiss accuracy goodbye. I've never tried it but I kinda doubt any improved accuracy with "chewed" balls.

I probably chewed lead paint as a child, so no, not gonna chew on any
lead ball… (any wonder @Ugly Sauce acts the way he does from time to time?)

 

[hawg]

I probably chewed lead paint as a child, so no, not gonna chew on any
lead ball… (any wonder @Ugly Sauce acts the way he does from time to time?)

Put them in a rock tumbler lol

 

[Appalachiannative]

Mine just have a little flat spot. Load it at the top and no worries. Load it at the bottom and kiss accuracy goodbye. I've never tried it but I kinda doubt any improved accuracy with "chewed" balls.

That's the same thing I'm talking about. Better choice of words than mine. My ol man says that flat spot is the "point toward enemy"

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I probably chewed lead paint as a child, so no, not gonna chew on any
lead ball… (any wonder @Ugly Sauce acts the way he does from time to time?)

Time to time??? Ha!!! It's a full time thing.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've decided to put the double .54 ball load on hold for a while. I do think that although the two .54's give two wound channels, and that a 220 grain ball is no slouch, and times two is 440 grains of lead, the bigger heavier single ball is going to penetrate further, and for Grizz I think that's a better way to go.

I ran some hard-ball in .58" (.570") yesterday, strangely they measure about the same, right around .570", but the weight difference is substantial. The hard ball weighing 263 grains, and the soft-ball going 280 grains. Perhaps I can do some shooting with them tomorrow. Those suckers are hard, and I can tell right now that they sure don't slide down the bore (with thin patching) like a soft lead ball does. Getting one stuck (patched) in a fouled bore would be a real possibility. A chewed bare-ball option only, after the first shot. ?

 

[woodnbow]

I've decided to put the double .54 ball load on hold for a while. I do think that although the two .54's give two wound channels, and that a 220 grain ball is no slouch, and times two is 440 grains of lead, the bigger heavier single ball is going to penetrate further, and for Grizz I think that's a better way to go.

I ran some hard-ball in .58" (.570") yesterday, strangely they measure about the same, right around .570", but the weight difference is substantial. The hard ball weighing 263 grains, and the soft-ball going 280 grains. Perhaps I can do some shooting with them tomorrow. Those suckers are hard, and I can tell right now that they sure don't slide down the bore (with thin patching) like a soft lead ball does. Getting one stuck (patched) in a fouled bore would be a real possibility. A chewed bare-ball option only, after the first shot. ?

What’s the alloy?

 

[windini]

I shot a 565 grain slug over 120 grains many times.

I believe that's called the KamiKaze Load!

However, could be very useful if Griz teamed up with Mountain Lion for the attack. For right-handed shooters, the recoil would spin you clockwise and the swingin' muzzle would whack Ms. Stalking Lion in the chops as the ball dealt with Griz.

 

[woodnbow]

I believe that's called the KamiKaze Load!

However, could be very useful if Griz teamed up with Mountain Lion for the attack. For right-handed shooters, the recoil would spin you clockwise and the swingin' muzzle would whack Ms. Stalking Lion in the chops as the ball dealt with Griz.

Very useful indeed. A 520 grain .45 caliber bullet pushed by 120 grains of 1.5f Swiss will dissuade the most insistent Grizzly. The recoil isn’t as bad as you might think.