Range Report. I need your help. (pics)

[Covey Leader]

I went to the range again today with my Bushmaster. I am shooting open sights, Remington 223 55 grain FMJ, and my rest is a sand bag. I had really good groups at 50 yards. I stepped it out to 100 yards and my groups opened up quite a bit again. I dont know if i am using the right targets for 100 yards open sight shooting. Last week i used a crosshair target and someone on here recommended i try a black circle bullseye. I did that but i am still having a problem aquiring my point of aim at 100 yards. I am pretty new to the AR world so all advice is greatly appreciated.

What am i doing wrong? Are there better/bigger targets to use? Please give me any advise you can. Thanks.

My rest


Targets


50 Yards


100 yards

 

[Byron]

Covey,I have a similiar Bushmaster. A couple of things come to mind.There seems to be a left and right disperson with some in the center. Use the same pressure pull on the trigger and avoid making it shoot. That is when the trigger squeeze gets to a certain point,some have the tendency to pull harder in the last part of the squeeze. The Remington is good ammo. Try different bullets or reload for greater variety. Byron

 

[rat31465]

Get a rear sand bag to rest the buttstock of your carbine on and learn how to properly use it for adjusting your windage and elevation while shooting. A good front rest and rear sandbag will be a big help in eliminating shooters error. Something like the ones in the links below will be a good investment for a long time to come as long as your shooting.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RIBBRBOB&item=BAG34&type=store
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RIBBRBFB&item=BAG07&type=store

 

[alemonkey]

One thing that helps a lot when using open sights is to aim at the bottom of the target and adjust your sights up to hit dead center. The very bottom of a black bullseye is a much more precise aiming point than trying to aim at the center.

 

[Covey Leader]

Thanks for the tips. Is there a certain style target you guys use for open sights? If so, can you please post a picture or link to it?

 

[taliv]

the one you've got looks just fine.

can you describe your sight picture? i.e. how you're aligning the front sight, rear sight and the target?

does seem a little weird that your 100 yrd groups are that much bigger than your 50 yrd groups.

you're not doing something crazy like shooting a 22lr conversion kit and not telling us, right?

 

[Domino]

Covey,

For iron sight shooting I MUCH prefer some sort of square (4-8MOA at 100 yards) since it makes it much easier to line up the front sight. Your front sight is square on top, so you just aim at the bottom of the square until the two line up perfect and then shoot. I usually just make them myself with a magic marker and paper.

Maybe something like target number 10116 on the link would work...
http://www.targetz.com/targets08.htm

 

[Covey Leader]

how you're aligning the front sight, rear sight and the target?

I am trying to put the very top(flat part) of my front post in the center of the target.

Im pretty sure i jerked a few shots today due to not being completely familiar with the trigger pull. Its seems a bit heavy. Maybe a smoother trigger would help?

 

[SoCalShooter]

Covey, I doubt there is anything wrong with your trigger, if its not a two stage trigger you should probably change it out to a match trigger or a tactical match trigger from Geisselle or rock river arms. Two stage is the way to go, I have rock river's in my guns and I just ordered the Geisselle tactical trigger.

More practice is also what you need you can put a black dot on you wall about 10 feet away and practice aligning your sights and smoothly moving the trigger to the rear to make it go off. Dry fire will not hurt the weapon it puts some where an tear on the rifle but nothing really more than live fire would do.

Next CONCENTRATION at some point you stopped concentrating on the front sight, if you can see the whole picture your not concentrating on the front sight.

Well thats all I have for now, also if you have DCM matches or High Power rifle matches in the area where your at you should go to them and see if they will help you out and watch what your doing right and wrong.

 

[alemonkey]

I am trying to put the very top(flat part) of my front post in the center of the target.

I'd say that's your biggest problem. Place that front post right at the bottom of the target and you'll tighten things up, because you'll have a consistent aiming point.

 

[gazpacho]

Just out of curiosity, what is the barrel twist of the Bushmaster? 1-in-7 or 1-in-9? 55gr ammo should soot well in a 1-in-9 barrel, but groups may uffer ina 1-in-7 barrel.

 

[jonc]

any chance you are using the big peep hole and not the small one?

 

[taliv]

right, so some folks do a "center hold" like what you're doing, but for now, why don't you try a 6 o'clock hold (aka 'pumpkin on a post') and see if that helps.
(edit: when you switch, your groups won't be centered up obviously, but don't sweat that for now... don't chase the holes around the target either. just try to do the same thing every time you pull the trigger)

dry fire is also highly recommended

however, despite the fact that your gun MAY be capable of very small groups, it is configured to mirror a fighting rifle. if your intention is to use the gun away from the bench (or marksmanship competitions), i would NOT put a 2-stage trigger in it.

if your technique is correct, you can shoot a heavy, creepy trigger and get good groups. of course, an expensive match trigger will make it easier, but they are also fragile.

 

[SwampWolf]

I don't think a six o'clock hold is any more "precise" or "consistent" as a middle of the bull hold is so much as the sights are so much easier to see and distinguish when they are superimposed on a contrasting background, i.e., black on white as opposed to black on black. Also, as others have noted, focusing on the front sight is vital in getting good groups.

Concerning the trigger pull, I noticed that your rifle is configured in a more "tactical" (for lack of a better word) mode than, say, my National Match AR-15 rifle is. A good trigger is essential to scoring well in the Service Rifle matches I compete in. Last year at Camp Perry, I did an informal, non-scientific poll to see which trigger most competitors were using and the Rock River 2-stage NM trigger came out on top. Almost nobody was using the "stock" trigger their rifles came with. However, as taliv noted, a "target" trigger may not be the best choice for a "fighting" rifle. That said, there is no doubt in my mind that a good trigger is important to improving your marksmanship skills. A good barrel makes the rifle shoot better. A good trigger allows the shooter to shoot better-so long as he squeezes it right.

 

[rob_s]

What is your purpose in shooting? Are you trying to improve for some other purpose, or is this your end-goal?

Thinking of it like exercise, a football player may run as part of his workout, but it's not his end goal. Contrast that with a runner who runs to improve his running.

Personally, I think you need to learn to shoot from prone unsupported. Get away from the bench, get your legs spread apart and your heels down, find natural point of aim, watch your breathing, and learn to control the trigger.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Lookit, the target pattern can be, and probably IS here in this situation, a large contributor to the fall off in accuracy from 50 to 100. Reason being comes down to contrast. You've got an all black target with nothing but little yellow lines separating the rings. What you want and need with open sights is a dark black CENTER BULLSEYE surrounded by white or cream color - that can make all the difference in your aim/hold at that distance (100 yards), which is a LONG way for iron sights for shooting with precision as you're trying to do.

And yes, you want your hold at the very bottom tangent line of the bullseye. That's what I do anyway. This works fine and dandy as long as your bullseye size remains roughly the same. But if you utilize this method and are getting hits with a 2" bullseye, and then you switch to a 3" bullseye, then your hits will be 1/2" low, and 1" low with a 4" bullseye. What I do is I always imagine a 2" bullseye, regardless of the actual size of the bullseye, and hold at the (real or imaginary) bottom of the 2" bullseye.

 

[Threeband]

I agree with rob s.

Get away from the bench!

Check this out: good stuff!
http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_the_M1_Rifle

 

[SwampWolf]

Get away from the bench!

Why? The "bench" will teach you things nothing else will. Shooting from a bench/rest properly will isolate problems you could never sort out otherwise. As referenced earlier, I'm a dedicated Service Rifle Competitor and shoot plenty from the offhand, prone and sitting positions. But if I'm trying to narrow down problems with the rifle, I head for the bench first in order to obviate the human factor. I'm not trying to find out how well (or poorly) I'm shooting. I'm trying to ascertain the capability of the rifle.

 

[Realbigo]

I agree that the bench is the best place to get optimum results, and to isolate your problems so that they can be solved. One question though. In your pic, we cant see the magazine base. You arn't resting the rifle on it are? I had a similar problem the fiirst time I qual'ed w/ a M16, and a 30rd mag.

 

[jbkebert]

More practice is also what you need you can put a black dot on you wall about 10 feet away and practice aligning your sights and smoothly moving the trigger to the rear to make it go off. Dry fire will not hurt the weapon it puts some where an tear on the rifle but nothing really more than live fire would do.

When you do this exercise balance a quarter or washer whatever on the rifles barrel. If you can squeeze the trigger and keep the quarter balanced your trigger pull if fine. If the quarter falls consistanly you are jerking the trigger. Might invest in some snap caps to go along with this practice routine.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I didn't happen to notice if your front hand guard was resting enough on the sand bags or not. Place your non firing hand under the hand guard and gently pull back a bit. Leave the magazine well alone. i would worry too much about the six O:clock hold too much. You just want the bullet to go where the top of the front sight post is.

Don't concentrate on the rear sight post That comes extremely naturally. Forget the rear sight post. Focus your eyes like you are reading small print on the front post and at the same time you have to try and half/forget the target. Your groups will get smaller.
To get a good fitment on the shoulder. Point the rifle 45degrees off to the right and up. Then fit it to the shoulder. Rock the weapon and the shoulder to the target. Shoulder and Butt of the rifle will fit alot better. You will get a better and more consistant cheek weld.
When shooting take a deep breath and relax. Relaxed shooters will shoot better. let out a one half breath and either line up the front post from the right side to the target and squeeze. From the left and squeeze. Coming up from the bottom and squeeze. I bring the post to position of target area and squeeze the trigger. I almost never hold the front post too long.

 

[Rimmer]

With that much spread at 50yds you just need a bunch of trigger time. Nothing more.

 

[wally]

The photos aren't taken at the same magnification, but by my using the target center X-ring as a ruler, the group spread at 100 yards appears to be about 2X the spread of the group at 50 yards. It looks a lot worse since you are putting .223" holes into 4X the area.

So I'd say until you can tighten the groups at 50 yards you are mostly wasting your time at 100 yards. This may require better ammo or better shooting or both.

--wally.

 

[fireman 9731]

Go plink with it!

If you are fairly new to that gun then you need to get very familiar with it before you try to wring every bit of accuracy out of it.

Go somewhere you can just shoot fun stuff, no targets or pressure and just shoot anything and everything, the ground, berms, whatever. It will help you get familiar with your gun as well as help you a lot with sight picture and point of aim.

 

[Covey Leader]

any chance you are using the big peep hole and not the small one?

Im using the small aperture.

Reason being comes down to contrast.

Good Point, thanks

What is your purpose in shooting? Are you trying to improve for some other purpose, or is this your end-goal?

To have fun and become more accurate with my rifle.

One question though. In your pic, we cant see the magazine base. You arn't resting the rifle on it are?

No, its only a 10 round magazine

Thanks for all the help guys