Range report: Ithaca 37 DSPS

[cgjunk2]

Well, I gave my new shotty a good work out today (my shoulder too!) A friend from work was nice enough to invite me to do some skeet shooting with him this afternoon, so I got up early to put a few through the barrel at the range, just so I could pattern it with some bird shot and give it a basic function test.

Things went fairly well at the range, the sights seemed to be close enough to POA-POI. I was kind of surprised at the spread with 7 1/2 (1 1/8oz) birdshot, but since is the first time I've shot shotguns, I have nothing to compare it to. At seven yards, I had about a 12 inch spread.

I shot 50 rounds at the indoor range. Man did this thing ever spit out those empty shells! I didn't have to clean any up at the range, because they were lauched about 45 degrees down and forward, and got chucked halfway down the range!

I did run into one problem though... The shotgun would eject live rounds when cycling the pump. However, even though a live round "fell out", the shotgun never failed to chamber a round. It really seemed like whatever holds the rounds in the mag wasn't retaining the rounds strongly enough. They basically just dropped out (they were not ejected out).

When shooting with only 2 or 3 rounds in the mag, I had failures less often. However, when shooting with a full mag of 7, I usually had around 2 of those rounds fall out as I cycled.

The shotgun seems fine at skeet, but this was my first time shooting skeet, so I'm sure I was the limiting factor. My friend said I did better than his first time out. I did get a good natured ribbing for bringing a "riot gun" to skeet shoot though

All in all, it was good day. My shoulder is a bit sore, so I know I got my money's worth

Tommorrow I guess it is off to the gunsmith at Gander Mountain to have the ejection issue looked at. However, if this is an easy fix, please let me know if this is something I can take care of at home. I would rather fix it myself than let go of my brand new toy.

Do you guys disassemble the action to clean after each time shooting, or just clean the barrel and lube the action?

Thanks

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Glad to hear you got the barrel off finally. The shell stops could be sticky and a little soak in a cleaner to work the could be all that's needed. Or, the spring could be worn and that's a pretty easy fix as well.

If you're handy and want to tinker, download the Ithaca tear down manual and take it apart and clean things up. If it's sat for a long time, you could have some junk and deposits in the gun slowing things down. It's not difficult if you're so inclined. However, you do have the warranty from the shop and if you trust their gunsmith, bring it back. We don't have Gander Mountain out this way, so I have no experience with them.

As for cleaning, for your gun it may need a good solid first cleaning. After that, I do not tear mine down all the way after going to the range. I will once a year, but not daily.

 

[cgjunk2]

Thanks,

I was looking at the teardown manual. A teardown is definatly in the works. Quick question though, is the mag tube itself removable?

 

[Kilrain]

The mag tube is not, as a general rule, removable. As I recall, it is screwed and brazed into the receiver. Removal is possible, but not usually necessary or recommended.

If you ever want to get rid of your Ithaca, let me know....

 

[Kilrain]

Also, regarding the live shells "falling" out during cycling, the culprit can only be a few things.

First, check the shell stop itself. Is it damaged, bent or otherwise F'ed up? Next, check the spring tension on the shell stop. Is the shell stop forcefully pushed out each and every time the gun cycles and adequately engaging the end of the shell or shell head. Lastly, check the spring tension on the magazine tube spring. Is there adequate tension to keep the shell firmly pressed against the shell stop, even during cycling and recoil. If none of those things present a problem, the gun may be need some work to correct the timing of the ejection/loading cycle. I can't think of anything else to check right off the top of my head.

Oh yeah, you might check your ammo also......you never can tell.

 

[cgjunk2]

Ok then, I'll take put down the pliers and stop trying to unscrew the mag tube . Just kidding. Good to know that it is fixed to the receiver.

The shell stop spring seems like it only provides light pressure. The magazine spring also seems like the pressure is real light, but then again, it is an extemely thin guage spring. They all look like they function fine though. This will have to be a project for the gunsmith I think. Thanks for the tips though, greatly appreciated.

One more question though (ok, not really). My receiver has 4 small screws along the top of the left side of the receiver. They look like they are just access holes maybe for lubing? They don't seem to hold anything on, or adjust anything. Could they be for mounting something? Kinda clueless on this one because I have seen pictures of other Ithaca 37s without these screws...

 

[Kilrain]

They are most likely for mounting an optic, probably for slug hunting. There are also diopter type rear sights for shotguns but I'm not sure about needing four screws. My money would be on a receiver scope mount of some kind!

 

[Kilrain]

Are they like this?

 

[Lone Star]

Elmer Keith noted in his classic, "Shotguns" that early M37's sometimes dropped a shell out of the magazine when unintended.

I presume this was remedied by about 1940, so your problem can probably be fixed by a GOOD gunsmith.

Lone Star

 

[cgjunk2]

Kilrain,

The holes are about that same size and spaced about the same, but they are on the left side of the receiver (near the top of the left side, not on the top).

The holes do not go straight across either, the the one nearest the barrel and the one nearest the buttstock are about 1/2 inch lower than the middle two.

Hmm, is this a bonafide mystery we have on our hands?

If there is an easy way to post pictures, let me know and I'll put one up.

 

[cgjunk2]

Lonestar,

I'll let you know if the gunsmith at Gander Mountain is of the good kind or not when I get it back

I'm a bit leary of letting it go, but hopefully it won't turn into a fiasco having to send it back multiple times. At least it's not like having to take a car in for warranty work. If I have to take it back several times for the same problem, at least I can drive myself back home

 

[cgjunk2]

Hmmm...

Took the shotgun to Gander Mountain and was a bit surprised by what the gunsmith said. First thing he asked after I explained the prob was if I wanted to sell them back the gun.

I said "no, not at all, I would like it fixed." Then he said, "Because we might not be able to fix it...if we can't get parts." I told him that the Ithaca websight seems to have many parts in stock, so I was hopefull they could get parts."

I'm still hoping this smith is one of the "good" kinds. We'll see...

 

[Gunsnrovers]

If they give you any lip, talk to the manager and keep working up the food chain. You have a warranty on a shotgun with READILY available parts. Ithaca may not have the parts for your older 37, but Numrich Arms and various other parts houses will have everything they need.

 

[cgjunk2]

I got my shotgun back from Gander mountain a few days ago. The gunsmith said he could not reproduce the problem, but he replaced the mag spring with one he cut down to size because the original seemed kind of light. He thought maybe the spring wasnt putting enough pressure on the round against the shell stop. He said the shell stop geometry was ok. He said he put around 14 rounds through it and did not get any dropped shells.

I took it out shooting yesterday and the problem is still there. I think I got a dropped shell on the first mag. And it kept doing it just as consistently as before. So in my view, the replaced mag spring has not helped in the least. I "made" some dummy shells just by cutting down empty ones to their original length, and was able to get dropped shells even with the lighter dummy shells.

I can't really figure this out, when doing some exploration with the dummy shells, I could not jostle out a round even by poking it around with my finger while it was in the mag. The main shell stop held just fine. The secondary shell stop (postive shell stop) seemed to be doing its job as well as I can tell (not being a gunsmith and all). The shells were being dropped as the action was cycled, so something in between there is messing up.

The thing that I am suspect of at this point is the carrier (the thing that both guides the new shells into the barrel and ejects the empties). When the carrier is at the lowest position, I can tell that one prong is not on an even level with the other. It almost looks like one prong was bent down a bit (or one pushed up). But I do not know if it is supposed to be this way, or if this is screwed up on mine. Could one of you with 37's check to see if both prongs are even? If they are supposed to be even, could this cause the issues I'm having?

Ideally, I would like to take it to the gunsmith again, but I'm not sure how I'll be recieved. Especially since he said he could not reproduce the problem (can't imagine how he could not reproduce it). Also, his work didn't even seem that great on the little he did with it. He cut a spring down to size to fit the Ithaca and did not dress the cut ends, so they end up digging into the metal of the mag cap and made it nearly impossible to get the cap off the first time. I ended up sanding and bending down the snipped end just so I could get it back off again later. He also didn't engage the barrel lug onto the end cap when he reassembled the gun. I don't know what would have happened if I would have fired it that way, maybe nothing, but something this simple did get away from him. So overall, I wasn't really impressed with his work. He did talk the talk, and seemed like a nice guy, but I guess that doesn't count that much when you're fixing guns.

Sorry for the long post. If anyone has read this far and can help me out a bit I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Kilrain]

I'll check my Ithaca 37 when I get home and get back to you.

Or, you could just give it up and sell it to me for cheap.....

Just kidding, I'll check and get back to you.

 

[cgjunk2]

Thanks...

You know, when the gunsmith asked if I wanted to sell it back to the store, I wonder if he said that so he could go and buy it for himself...

 

[Kilrain]

Well, I checked mine and both "prongs" of the carrier are definitely even with each other. Check the photos for further........





If you need anything else, just ask, I'll try to help!

 

[enfield]

One of my M37's did this when I first got it (used). A gunsmith fixed it for me and got it right the first time. I don't know what he did but I think it involved the shell stop.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

I assume you're back East as there are no Gander Mountains that I am aware of here in the West. Good thing is that Ithaca's are much more common there then on the Left Coast. Try to find a smith who knows 37's. I'm not a believer that all smiths can do all things.

I know it's painting with a broad brush, but my gut instinct is that his skill levels may be limited based on his where and for whom he's working.

 

[Wags]

I can't believe the GM Smith cut down another mag spring and didn't even file of the sharp end and bend it downwards out of the way. Plus putting it back together incorrectly i.e. the magazine/barrel cap. This guy is not someone I'd want "learning" Ithaca Mod 37's on my gun and dime.

The shell ejection problem could be a number of things. My guess is the shell stop and spring could possibly be replaced. I'd go with a new spring first.

Also, sounds like the carrier may have been bent around during the years. If possible, find another GM that is familiar with Mod 37's. Or try the process of elimination starting with new springs.

Keep us posted. You have a fine shotgun with a problem that is probably very simple and parts are galore.

 

[cgjunk2]

This guy is not someone I'd want "learning" Ithaca Mod 37's on my gun and dime.

Thankfully, in my situation, he is doing warranty work. Although while I am not losing money by having him work on it, I may be risking my shotgun (which is a real consideration). I'm kind of leaning towards taking the hit and just not having him work on it again, and hope to be able to fix this thing on my own. Parts will be expensive, but what can you do? At least it seems I got the shotgun for a reasonable price (160 bucks).

Kilrain, thanks a bunch for the pictures. In my description of the carrier concerns, I may have not been clear enough. On my shotgun, it seems that one prong clears the receiver before the other one does. It seems that in your second picture, the prong on the left clears the receiver before the one on the right does (please tell me if I am seeing an optical illusion here). Interestingly, on my shotty, the prong on the right clears the receiver ever so slightly before the prong on the left. Just the opposite of yours. But the difference in amount is less (if that makes sense).

Perhaps this is my problem. If these prongs have anything to do with actuating the release of the main shell stop, then this may be my problem (I wonder if this is what the infamous "timing" refers to?). I may just take this thing apart and see if the carrier is "bendable." I'll keep you guys updated... If any of you have any more ideas, keep them coming please...


Thanks

 

[Kilrain]

cg,

I'm back at work again. I'll check it when I get home and post a reply.

 

[cgjunk2]

Kilrain, what kind of finish is that on your Ithaca?

 

[Kilrain]

Factory nickel. Extra cool, which is why I bought it when I had the chance!

 

[enfield]

If it's the same nickel I have on my DSPS, it's not too durable. I need to have mine refinished due to rusting on the barrel. It's pretty, but I'd rather have Parkerizing.