Range report on German Ammo

[fmcdave]

I bought some German surplus 7.62x51mm ammunition and thought it was great. However, that was at a range that only allowed 1 round to be loaded at a time. I went shooting at another range which allowed more rounds and after about 100 rounds I was getting slam-fires. That shook me up some and I stopped. I hadn't cleaned the chamber (as I had not received the cleaning kit) and I was not sure what the problem was.

The good news is that I decided to put the remaining rounds through my vibrating case cleaner with a mixture of corn cob and walnut shell media (and a little case polish). I thought the rounds felt a little "rough" and thought that might be part of the problem. I fired off 80 rounds today and there were no problems.

Details:

Rifle:

• New M1A "Loaded" with match barrel

Ammo

• German Surplus in 200 round battle packs marked
  AB22
  20 PATRONE
  7.62mm x 51, DM111,
  Weichkern
  LOS MEN93H0004

Sequence of events:

• Brand new rifle
• Fired 200 rounds at a range that required one round at a time.
• No issues.
• Did not clean gun.
• Fired 200 rounds at a range which allowed magazines
  • First 120 or so had no problems
  • Had slam fires in the last 80 rounds and went to single shot.
• Did not clean gun.
• Tumbled 100 rounds to polish them up
• Went to another range which allowed magazines
  • Shot 80 rounds in magazines with no issues.
  • Cleaned the gun.

So I guess the bottom line is that I'll polish all of the rounds. I don't know if the Match parts of the Loaded M1A make it a little more sensitive. However, I thought I would share my experience.

I should also state that the rounds are pretty darned accurate, more so that me.
Dave

 

[Rosemead]

Boy you are brave. I would never shoot a new gun with out cleaning it before hand. Punch the barrel at least.

 

[Tim the student]

If I were you, I wouldn't shoot that rifle again until I gave it a really good cleaning. The whole rifle, not just the bore.

I doubt the slamfires were a result of your ammo.

 

[FC]

Boy you are brave. I would never shoot a new gun with out cleaning it before hand. Punch the barrel at least.

Agreed, I've never fired any gun that I have bought without giving it a thorough cleaning and inspection first.

I bet there is some crap in the firing pin channel causing the pin to hang up a bit that is causing the slam-fires.

 

[Ithaca37]

Dirty cases should not have anything to do with slam fires. Clean your weapon and make sure that the firing pin is properly free floating.

 

[Maverick223]

To echo the folks above it is always best to clean and thoroughly inspect a new rifle. Also, I have heard that loaded ammunition should never be tumbled as it might change the burn characteristics of the powder charge (by fracturing grains and/or removing the coating) thus increasing the burn rate and resulting in higher than normal pressures.

BTW, is that a semi-automatic or a straight pull rifle?

 

[fmcdave]

So, I was a little flip in my post. I did inspect and clean the rifle before I shot it. However, I am having a devil of a time getting the operating rod free. After much internet searching, I found this is a common problem. I took it to a friend of mine that has a SoComm and he couldn't get it out either.

As soon as I had the slam-fire, I spent about 2 hours trying to get the operating rod out. I watched every video and read all of the suggestions, but stopped short of using the "honk it with a screw driver" method. My Dad taught me that if you screw with something long enough, you will break it.

So, although I really wanted to look at the firing pin; I can't do it until I get that stinking operating rod out. I too suspect the firing pin hanging as it is free floating. But I am loath to use too much force to get the operating rod out.

I'm thinking of using a dremel with some polishing compound to break down the edges of the notch in the receiver (as that is the only thing I can reach). However, I have much concern over that strategy.

I would love to get some advice on this. I understand the advice I've been given on this thread and appreciate it...but I think I need a little help.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[Sport45]

I can't help you with the rifle other than recommending you keep the dremel away. That op rod went in with everything the way it is. It should come out too.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

be cool man - back away from that dremel. go online and find a break down page to peruse.

 

[tbd1966]

The German Patrone ammo is good ammo, if it is the stuff I have. Mine has a silver projectile and the boxes are marked the same as you described. From what I've been told this is some of the better surplus ammo to buy.

I agree with the previous posts regarding the cleaning of your weapon and potential obstructions with your firing pin.

My M1A op rod is the same as you describe. I've had it since 1984 and you have to hold your tounge at just the right angle before that sucker will slip out at the notch. Be patient. I wouldn't go prying anything in there to pop it out.

 

[crossrhodes]

Cmp site

Go to the CMP site and do a little searching on changing out the firing pin without removing the bolt or breaking down the rifle. I saw an article about fast FP change during competitions with the bolt still in the receiver.

 

[fmcdave]

So, thanks for all of the input. I really appreciate the comments. I will park my dremel in the cabinent. I knew in my heart that was a bad idea. I'm hoping I can get the Op Rod out soon as I agree that I need to check out if the firing pin is binding. I will (do as my father taught me years ago) and try for an hour and then give up before doing something stupid.

I'm going to look for the CMP site as crossrhodes suggested and see if there is another way.

I will admit I am frustrated. I have taken apart a lot of rifles, shotguns, and pistols and have never had this problem before. That said, from what I have learned from the videos and forum posts...taking the Op Rod out is challenging.

So, thanks for the input!
Dave

 

[Maverick223]

I think that is a smart decision. BTW, you never responded to my previous inquiry...is it SA or a straight pull action?

 

[fmcdave]

Maverick223,
Sorry for the late reply, the M1A is a semi-automatic. I have not heard of the problem with cleaning loaded rounds in a vibratory cleaner. I have done this on all of my reloads to get the case lubricant off (like for 12 years). That said, I understand the theory behind the concern...I am a former engineer (engineers are kindasorta like Marines, they don't change mindset after leaving the service).
Dave

 

[Maverick223]

No worries, been outta town till tonight. I'm not much help WRT the matter at hand (the op-rod always came out with ease the few times I have fooled with one) but congrats on getting a SA in the UK. Anyway, I hope you have it sorted by now.

 

[Prentice]

German Ammo

Dave and I bought the same ammo; 7.62 x 51 having been told "it's the same as .308 Winchester". I also had a brand new Springfield M1A and had the same problems. By "slam-fire" I assume it's when the casing wedges between the breech and bolt and knocks the bolt roller guides out of the track.
1. Has anyone else besides Dave had this problem since 2011?
2. Did cleaning the ammo take care of the problem or is there a problem with the dimensions of the rounds?

Just bought another brand new Springfield M1A (after selling the other one - with full disclosure) and don't want to ruin it. Thanks!

 

[M1key]

I have owned several Springfield M1As. Had "doubling" issues with three of them right out of the box.

First thing I would check is trigger pull. Might be too light if doubling. Should break at 4.5 pounds.

Nothing wrong with DAG ammo. Polish it in a vibrating cleaner.

Good luck

M

 

[Swampman]

I'm not sure I completely understand the problem you're having. It sounds more like doubling than true slamfires to me.

If the problem IS doubling, send your trigger assembly to Bill Springfield at: wspringfield(at)comcast.net
He does an excellent job, returns work quickly and has reasonable prices.

On the off chance that you're actually getting slamfires, did you inspect the cases after you fired them?

I reload a fair amount of range pickup Berdan primed 7.62x51 and I've noticed a number of the MEN cases with holes corroded or burned completely through the case walls. The attached pics are of a once fired case with intact stab crimps.

I've read that the packaging used for some of this ammo contained high levels of acid that attacked the brass.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Boy you are brave. I would never shoot a new gun with out cleaning it before hand. Punch the barrel at least.

+1

Who knows what metal fragment could be in the bore from manufacturing, among other things? Good way to damage a new bore.

 

[jimbeaux82]

OP states that it was MEN ammo, not DAG. They are 2 different manufacturers providing ammo to the German Military. I have shot both without problems in my CETME, more DAG than MEN. Both are reported to be very high quality mil-surp ammo. Only wish I could find more DAG to buy.

After reading thru all of the posts, I think the issue is with the rifle, not the ammo.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Dave and I bought the same ammo; 7.62 x 51 having been told "it's the same as .308 Winchester". I also had a brand new Springfield M1A and had the same problems. By "slam-fire" I assume it's when the casing wedges between the breech and bolt and knocks the bolt roller guides out of the track.
1. Has anyone else besides Dave had this problem since 2011?
2. Did cleaning the ammo take care of the problem or is there a problem with the dimensions of the rounds?

Just bought another brand new Springfield M1A (after selling the other one - with full disclosure) and don't want to ruin it. Thanks!

No. A slamfire is when a round is fired immediately upon being chambered without the trigger being pulled. It can be somewhat common in rifles like the M1A, M1 Garand, SKS, etc. It is generally caused by the firing pin being stuck out beyond the bolt face when a round is chambered. This is possible because the M1A and M1 Garand have a free-floating firing pin. But it can also be caused by improper (too soft) primers being used in the ammo. I'm not an expert as far as the M1A is concerned so I don't know what to call the issue you seem to have had.