Ranger Bonded or Ranger T Series

[MikeNice]

I have been looking at ammo a lot lately. I have noticed that Ranger Bonded and Ranger T series seem to be about the same price. There is usually no significant difference in price.

So, is there any reason to by the older second generation T series (as opposed to SXT T series) instead of the Bonded ammo?

 

[AZ Five seveN]

Ranger Bonded and Ranger-T are two totally different bullets.

The Ranger-T expands slightly more while the Bonded penetrates slightly more. The Ranger-T is generally considered to be the better bullet.

FWIW: The SXT bullet doesn't meet minimum SD standards.

 

[randytrapper]

AZ Five seveN-"FWIW: The SXT bullet doesn't meet minimum SD standards."

Could you elaborate, possibly some test data?

 

[AZ Five seveN]

AZ Five seveN-"FWIW: The SXT bullet doesn't meet minimum SD standards."

Could you elaborate, possibly some test data?

Honestly, I did this research over a year ago. The sources I used have long left my memory.

What I do know is this: The current Ranger-T bullet is an upgraded SXT bullet that expands a bit more due to some small dimensional changes, and the "talons" or petals are a bit longer and do more cutting damage. The SXT bullet fails denim / heavy clothing tests.

Use this link as a guide.

 

[AZ Five seveN]

I need to add that the purpose of the Bonded bullet is to maintain weight and structure through barriers.

 

[randytrapper]

Thanks for the link, I've seen that before, or something similar.
LOL, I need to stop looking at the Internet. I realize they are old technology but I'm going to use them. I had '40 some' of the SXT's and ran them through my Kahr during break in, it liked them so I just ordered more, today. Minutes before I read your reply.

EDIT: I just re-read this and I'm mistaken. I was think you where talking about the newer Talon=SXT.. My mistake.

EDIT AGAIN: LOL, now I'm confused? I guess you where talking the SXT? IDK? I own them now.....

 

[AZ Five seveN]

Thanks for the link, I've seen that before, or something similar.
LOL, I need to stop looking at the Internet. I realize they are old technology but I'm going to use them. I had '40 some' of the SXT's and ran them through my Kahr during break in, it liked them so I just ordered more, today. Minutes before I read your reply.

EDIT: I just re-read this and I'm mistaken. I was think you where talking about the newer Talon=SXT.. My mistake.

Eh, I'm lost!

SXT =/= Ranger-T

The SXT is more similar to the Black Talon round of the 80's and 90's.

In chronological order: The Black Talon round was discontinued in 2000 and replaced by the SXT. The SXT was discontinued in 2007 and replaced by the Ranger-T.

Ranger-T > SXT > Black Talon

 

[randytrapper]

SXT is what I'm talking about. If they are discontinued there must have been alot of surplus? They are still available. Mine are coming from CDNN.

 

[AZ Five seveN]

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[AZ Five seveN]

One more point I need to add...

This is a direct quote from Dr. Roberts:

-- "Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's."

Hope that helps.

 

[Manco]

Ranger Bonded and Ranger-T are two totally different bullets.

Not all that long ago, they were of completely different designs, but the current Ranger Bonded bullets are essentially bonded versions of the current Ranger-T bullet design. The bullets used in the PDX1 loads on the civilian market seem (and are said) to be identical to Ranger Bonded bullets, and the loads are similar if not identical (by the way, the bonded 180 grain .40 S&W load is the current FBI load, if anybody cares). The Ranger SXT bullet is an older and poorer-performing version of the Ranger-T bullet, while the civilian SXT, if it's still being sold, uses bullets of a completely different and inferior design.

The bottom line: among the Winchester offerings, choose Ranger-T (not SXT), Ranger Bonded (of recent manufacture), or PDX1.

The Ranger-T expands slightly more while the Bonded penetrates slightly more.

I only go by terminal ballistics test results, but in general this is probably true. The FBI load mentioned above leans more toward penetration, per the FBI's preference, presumably (and I use it for the same reason).

The Ranger-T is generally considered to be the better bullet.

They're pretty similar in most respects, so if what you say is true then the reasons probably are that they expand a bit more (a top priority for most people) and sprout six razor-sharp "talons"; the bonded bullets also have "talons" but they're filled in with lead (I guess the bonding works) so they're not as pointy and sharp. The bonded bullets do indeed hold together better when penetrating barriers, but the Ranger-T manages to hold together fairly well, too.

 

[Blue .45]

The Ranger SXT bullet is an older and poorer-performing version of the Ranger-T bullet, while the civilian SXT, if it's still being sold, uses bullets of a completely different and inferior design.

I wish I had seen this thread before my latest ammo purchase, The names are so similar it's confusing. The worst part is, I could have gotten Gold Dot's for the same price as the Ranger SXT I recently bought. Oh well, I'll know better the next time.

 

[Manco]

I wish I had seen this thread before my latest ammo purchase, The names are so similar it's confusing. The worst part is, I could have gotten Gold Dot's for the same price as the Ranger SXT I recently bought. Oh well, I'll know better the next time.

Don't feel so bad--it looks to me that the Ranger SXT (intended for the LEO as opposed to the civilian market) is just a slightly older version of the now-vaunted Ranger-T. It's probably nearly as reliable an expander (yeah, my warning made it look bad, but I was trying to get people to avoid it), and it also has the talons if you like those--they're all incremental product improvements over the basic Black Talon design (which as I recall was pretty effective back in the day). The civilian SXT and the old Ranger Bonded loads are really the ones to avoid these days (although they work as well as they ever did, just not as well as the modern/updated designs).

 

[randytrapper]

I'm anxious to see what I actually get.
There is a thread and photo I seen online where a fellow got a box of RA9SXT and a box of RA9T in the same order?
I ordered from CDNN. I have a older catalog from them and I made my order off of that ad. What I ordered is listed as Winchester Ranger:
"9mm 147 grain hollowpoint FAMOUS TALON BULLET SXT Jacketed Hollowpoint"
There is no reference to an item number. I'll find out in a few days. I bought 6 boxes.. With shipping they where $132.92.. That's .44 cent's a round

 

[hotpig]

Ranger SXT was basically a repackaged Black Talon. In 1996 or 97 if I remember right Winchester started putting the Ranger SXT in a 50 round box and went to a brass case. The bullet still had the black lubalox coat.

1998 Ranger T started production and the Ranger SXT was fazed out over time. It took about two years to get all of the loads switched over to the T. Many people are still confused because the Ranger box still had large SXT written on the flap. Ranger T is still a SXT so I guess that was their reason not to change it.

The original Ranger T went out of production in 2008 and was replaced by the T-Series Enhanced. This is their current offering.

2006 the Ranger Partition Gold was replaced by the Ranger Bonded.

2008 The Bonded round started fazing in the PDX1 bullet. The RA9B and the RA9BA still have not been converted over to the PDX1 bullet yet.

I will not address the dozens of other Ranger loads since they are not part of this thread. In the last two years there has been a release of the old Ranger SXT load minus the black lubalux. I did not stock any because many would confuse it with the Ranger T ammo.

 

[Blue .45]

Thanks Manco, I usually get Federal HST or Remington Golden Saber. I found a better price on the Ranger's, so I thought I would give them a try. As long as they perform better than FMJ. they will do for now.

I'm anxious to see what I actually get.
There is a thread and photo I seen online where a fellow got a box of RA9SXT and a box of RA9T in the same order?
I ordered from CDNN. I have a older catalog from them and I made my order off of that ad. What I ordered is listed as Winchester Ranger:
"9mm 147 grain hollowpoint FAMOUS TALON BULLET SXT Jacketed Hollowpoint"
There is no reference to an item number. I'll find out in a few days. I bought 6 boxes.. With shipping they where $132.92.. That's .44 cent's a round

Yep, this is what I have. I ordered them from ammunition to go. Looks like you got a better price.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-9mm-winchester-ranger-talon-147gr-sxt-hp-ammo/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

 

[randytrapper]

Just a update:

I received my ammo I ordered from CDNN. It is the RA9SXT.