coosbaycreep
Member
I recently bought a new H&R/NEF handi rifle in .500S&W mag, and a used marlin 1895G .45-70. I've wanted both for a long time, because I've always wanted something massively powerful and brutal to shoot, and I've heard so many comments about how devastating both of these calibers are.
The .500 is the first gun I actually wanted enough to order and wait for. Normally I won't by anything that's not in stock, as I'm quite impatient and an impulse buyer. The main reason I wanted the .500 in the first place was because you can get 700 grain bullets from a company called Ballistic Supply. Unfortunately, the owners of B.S. had a death in their family and won't be open till February 1st. I didn't want to order from midwayusa and wait around for some "little" bullets to show up either, as I was extremely anxious to shoot this thing. So, finally I broke down and spent $65 on a box of 20 rounds from the local gunshop, which is the only place in either Coos or Douglas county Oregon that stocks ammo in this caliber that I could find. That's like $3.25 a round! The ammo is hornady 500gr.
The first time I shot it, I was nervous because I thought the recoil was going to be wicked. I was wrong. It doesn't kick bad at all, and I think that even most kids could shoot this thing without too much trouble.
I shot a water jug and some stumps, and while it blew big holes in stuff, it wasn't like an A-bomb going off or nothing either, which was what I was actually thinking was going to happen for some reason. It didn't penetrate through the stumps either, and some of them weren't that big.
The gun itself is boring, which is to be expected from pretty much any low cost single shot. The sights are really nice, it hit where I aimed, and the barrel on this thing is so big that it looks like a 20ga shotgun, but the ejector sucks. The manual says their new ejector isn't suppose to fully eject the shell, the way my old NEF 12ga does. In fact, it only ejects it about an 1/8 of an inch, and I have to use a knife or empty shells to get the shell out far enough to get it out. I guess that's good if you don't like picking up your brass after you shoot, but I wouldn't want to be hunting something big and ferocious, and be in need of a quick follow-up shot, because extracting the empty shell is quite a hassle.
The break action on the .500 is really stiff too. It doesn't have the "snappiness" that my 12ga does. I imagine it would get easier to open if I was to shoot hundreds of rounds through it, but with the cost of ammo, I'd have to sell a kidney just to shoot a few rounds through it.
The next day I took the .500, the .45-70, and my 3.5" 12ga out and shot an old log with all three of them. (I couldn't find any safe places to shoot around here that were any better, and here in Oregon, logs is what us country folk like to shoot. It goes good with all the drinking and inbreeding and whatnot).
I shot the .500 first, thinking that the day before was a fluke, and that today the recoil would knock me down and turn the log into splinters. It didn't. It felt just as mundane as the day before.
Next up was the marlin. I first shot one of the low power 405gr remingtons through it, and wasn't impressed. Then I shot a 325gr hornady leverlution through it, which I do believe is some of the hotter ammo available for .45-70, with the exception of Buffalo Bore. It kicked some, but not anything I'd be nervous or hesitant about shooting.
Surprisingly, the log I was shooting was seemingly unaffected by the bullets. I fully expected the log to plead for mercy as 3 foot wide holes were punched through both ends of it by my mighty bullets, but instead, there was just .458 and .500 diameter holes in it. No chunks of wood or anything went flying off or anything, and nothing penetrated all the way through either, but it was a big log, so I guess I can't complain.
Then I busted out the 870 with a 3.5" Lightfield IDS slug. This was going to be my first time shooting one of these slugs, but the few previous times I had shot some 3.5" 00 buckshot through it, the recoil was like getting ran over by a truck. In fact, this SOB kicks so hard that everytime I shot it, the forened would slide about half way due to the recoil. If it kicked any harder, it would eject the shells on it's own, simply because it kicks so bad....and because I'm a weakling and a coward.
Anyway, I went ahead and fired the slug. Lots of splinters and crap flew off the log, but the recoil wasn't nearly as brutal as it seemed after the times I shot the buckshot through it. The forend only slid backwards about 2 inches instead of halfway, so I'd say they're not as bad because they weigh less than the buckshot.
The slug was the only thing that was visibly impressive to shoot.
But now I have a dilemma. I have guns in two calibers that are known for being capable of killing almost anything that walks, will shoot through a herd of buffalo at 1000 yards, turn stumps into toothpicks, etc., but I'm not impressed...at all. I know I wasn't shooting the hottest ammo available for them, but neither were even close to living up to all the stories I've heard people tell about them for years and years. I'm pretty disappointed.
Looking at the ballistics on all the different loads available for them at midway isn't very inspiring either. .45-70 seems to have a little more velocity with the bigger bullets than the .500, but it's with a smaller diameter bullet, and the cost for the hot .45-70 is comparable to the .500.
All .500 ammo prices are freaking insane. I don't have room for reloading equipment even if I wanted to reload (which I don't), so that makes shooting either an expensive proposition, with neither caliber really offering much more performance over the other from what I can tell.
At this point, I don't even know if I'll bother ordering any of the hot (and super expensive) ammo for either, as I don't think the performance increase will be a big enough factor to justify the costs.
Despite the ejector, I think I like shooting the handi rifle more than the guide gun though, but the marlin does have a really smooth action for that long of cartridge case. My winchester 94 .30-30 takes twice the effort to eject the shells that the marlin does. (I've tried ejecting the shells real fast from the shoulder like in the old cowboy movies with the .30-30 a few times, and I didn't do too good. It's sloppy and seems to bind or something).
The 870 provides enough recoil to satisy my masochism, but Lightfield is the only manufacturer of 3.5" slugs I can find, and I have a smoothbore barrel anyway.
So, now I'm thinking about getting something bigger and more painful to shoot. I originally got the 870 because it's the most powerful thing you can get for the money. The next best thing I can find for the price is probably either a T/C or a Ruger No. 1, in either .375H&H, .416, or .458 lott.
I don't hunt, and don't have any legitimate reason for getting anything like that, except for the fact that I want one. Over half the guns I own now I don't shoot enough to even justify having. I was planning on buying a .308 combat rifle when the prices cool off a little, or when I sell my AR, but considering what it'd cost me to shoot a semi-auto .308, and how little I even shoot in the first place, I'm thinking about just getting a dirt cheap elephant gun instead.
For those of you who have shot the hottest factory .45-70/.500S&W ammo (buffalo bore, etc), do you think their performance is good enough over the loads I've already shot to bother buying? Is there any other ammo brands for these calibers that are hotter than B.B., but still safe to shoot in my guns, and don't cost more than $3.50-$4 a round?
What about cheap elephant guns? Is there anything other than t/c or single shot rugers that are chambered in something powerful? It's got to have open sights, and be under about $850 or so.
How would a .458Lott compare to a 3.5" slug, both recoil wise, and what it will do blocks of wood, water jugs, engine blocks, rabid chipmunks, etc.?
I've always wanted a .375H&H too, but I don't see that offering much more performance than the stuff I've already got, especially with factory loadings.
The .500 is the first gun I actually wanted enough to order and wait for. Normally I won't by anything that's not in stock, as I'm quite impatient and an impulse buyer. The main reason I wanted the .500 in the first place was because you can get 700 grain bullets from a company called Ballistic Supply. Unfortunately, the owners of B.S. had a death in their family and won't be open till February 1st. I didn't want to order from midwayusa and wait around for some "little" bullets to show up either, as I was extremely anxious to shoot this thing. So, finally I broke down and spent $65 on a box of 20 rounds from the local gunshop, which is the only place in either Coos or Douglas county Oregon that stocks ammo in this caliber that I could find. That's like $3.25 a round! The ammo is hornady 500gr.
The first time I shot it, I was nervous because I thought the recoil was going to be wicked. I was wrong. It doesn't kick bad at all, and I think that even most kids could shoot this thing without too much trouble.
I shot a water jug and some stumps, and while it blew big holes in stuff, it wasn't like an A-bomb going off or nothing either, which was what I was actually thinking was going to happen for some reason. It didn't penetrate through the stumps either, and some of them weren't that big.
The gun itself is boring, which is to be expected from pretty much any low cost single shot. The sights are really nice, it hit where I aimed, and the barrel on this thing is so big that it looks like a 20ga shotgun, but the ejector sucks. The manual says their new ejector isn't suppose to fully eject the shell, the way my old NEF 12ga does. In fact, it only ejects it about an 1/8 of an inch, and I have to use a knife or empty shells to get the shell out far enough to get it out. I guess that's good if you don't like picking up your brass after you shoot, but I wouldn't want to be hunting something big and ferocious, and be in need of a quick follow-up shot, because extracting the empty shell is quite a hassle.
The break action on the .500 is really stiff too. It doesn't have the "snappiness" that my 12ga does. I imagine it would get easier to open if I was to shoot hundreds of rounds through it, but with the cost of ammo, I'd have to sell a kidney just to shoot a few rounds through it.
The next day I took the .500, the .45-70, and my 3.5" 12ga out and shot an old log with all three of them. (I couldn't find any safe places to shoot around here that were any better, and here in Oregon, logs is what us country folk like to shoot. It goes good with all the drinking and inbreeding and whatnot).
I shot the .500 first, thinking that the day before was a fluke, and that today the recoil would knock me down and turn the log into splinters. It didn't. It felt just as mundane as the day before.
Next up was the marlin. I first shot one of the low power 405gr remingtons through it, and wasn't impressed. Then I shot a 325gr hornady leverlution through it, which I do believe is some of the hotter ammo available for .45-70, with the exception of Buffalo Bore. It kicked some, but not anything I'd be nervous or hesitant about shooting.
Surprisingly, the log I was shooting was seemingly unaffected by the bullets. I fully expected the log to plead for mercy as 3 foot wide holes were punched through both ends of it by my mighty bullets, but instead, there was just .458 and .500 diameter holes in it. No chunks of wood or anything went flying off or anything, and nothing penetrated all the way through either, but it was a big log, so I guess I can't complain.
Then I busted out the 870 with a 3.5" Lightfield IDS slug. This was going to be my first time shooting one of these slugs, but the few previous times I had shot some 3.5" 00 buckshot through it, the recoil was like getting ran over by a truck. In fact, this SOB kicks so hard that everytime I shot it, the forened would slide about half way due to the recoil. If it kicked any harder, it would eject the shells on it's own, simply because it kicks so bad....and because I'm a weakling and a coward.
Anyway, I went ahead and fired the slug. Lots of splinters and crap flew off the log, but the recoil wasn't nearly as brutal as it seemed after the times I shot the buckshot through it. The forend only slid backwards about 2 inches instead of halfway, so I'd say they're not as bad because they weigh less than the buckshot.
The slug was the only thing that was visibly impressive to shoot.
But now I have a dilemma. I have guns in two calibers that are known for being capable of killing almost anything that walks, will shoot through a herd of buffalo at 1000 yards, turn stumps into toothpicks, etc., but I'm not impressed...at all. I know I wasn't shooting the hottest ammo available for them, but neither were even close to living up to all the stories I've heard people tell about them for years and years. I'm pretty disappointed.
Looking at the ballistics on all the different loads available for them at midway isn't very inspiring either. .45-70 seems to have a little more velocity with the bigger bullets than the .500, but it's with a smaller diameter bullet, and the cost for the hot .45-70 is comparable to the .500.
All .500 ammo prices are freaking insane. I don't have room for reloading equipment even if I wanted to reload (which I don't), so that makes shooting either an expensive proposition, with neither caliber really offering much more performance over the other from what I can tell.
At this point, I don't even know if I'll bother ordering any of the hot (and super expensive) ammo for either, as I don't think the performance increase will be a big enough factor to justify the costs.
Despite the ejector, I think I like shooting the handi rifle more than the guide gun though, but the marlin does have a really smooth action for that long of cartridge case. My winchester 94 .30-30 takes twice the effort to eject the shells that the marlin does. (I've tried ejecting the shells real fast from the shoulder like in the old cowboy movies with the .30-30 a few times, and I didn't do too good. It's sloppy and seems to bind or something).
The 870 provides enough recoil to satisy my masochism, but Lightfield is the only manufacturer of 3.5" slugs I can find, and I have a smoothbore barrel anyway.
So, now I'm thinking about getting something bigger and more painful to shoot. I originally got the 870 because it's the most powerful thing you can get for the money. The next best thing I can find for the price is probably either a T/C or a Ruger No. 1, in either .375H&H, .416, or .458 lott.
I don't hunt, and don't have any legitimate reason for getting anything like that, except for the fact that I want one. Over half the guns I own now I don't shoot enough to even justify having. I was planning on buying a .308 combat rifle when the prices cool off a little, or when I sell my AR, but considering what it'd cost me to shoot a semi-auto .308, and how little I even shoot in the first place, I'm thinking about just getting a dirt cheap elephant gun instead.
For those of you who have shot the hottest factory .45-70/.500S&W ammo (buffalo bore, etc), do you think their performance is good enough over the loads I've already shot to bother buying? Is there any other ammo brands for these calibers that are hotter than B.B., but still safe to shoot in my guns, and don't cost more than $3.50-$4 a round?
What about cheap elephant guns? Is there anything other than t/c or single shot rugers that are chambered in something powerful? It's got to have open sights, and be under about $850 or so.
How would a .458Lott compare to a 3.5" slug, both recoil wise, and what it will do blocks of wood, water jugs, engine blocks, rabid chipmunks, etc.?
I've always wanted a .375H&H too, but I don't see that offering much more performance than the stuff I've already got, especially with factory loadings.
