Rcbs die question-300blk. case gauge

[Reefinmike]

Hey all, Im trying to piece together my midway order and have a few questions. Im loading 300blk, currently I have lee dies but Im having problems with freshly converted brass so I need the RCBS SB die set.

1- are shellholders universal? Im not familiar with rcbs products. will my lee #4 shellholder be compatable with the rcbs dies?

2- Im needing a decapper/expander for .310/311 lead cast bullets. Will the one for 7.62x39 work? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/38...77x58mm-japanese-arisaka?cm_vc=ProductFinding I bought a 7.62x39 decapper expander for my lee die set and it was too long to fit in the die and function properly.

3- I'm torn on whether I need to order a case gauge. I could see how they would be handy to have on the bench when dialing in dies and working out any kinks at first but is there any reason I cant just use my AR's chamber as a case gauge?

Thanks for any help guys.

 

[MaterDei]

Hi, reefinmike.

I'll give your questions a shot.

1. Lee shell holders will work fine in your RCBS press.

2. I'm not certain on this one and will let others answer. My guess would be that, no, your 7.63x39 decapper/expander will not work but am just guessing. Don't take my word for it.

3. A caliper and your AR chamber will work just fine as a case gauge. No need to purchase a dedicated gauge.

Good luck!

 

[Reefinmike]

1- I know the rcbs dies will thread into my LEE press. Im wondering if a lee SHELLHOLDER will work with rcbs dies. I only know lee dies, but with lee sizing dies, you set them up by having the shellholder hit the mouth of the die with a slight cam over. If a rcbs shellholder is taller or shorter than a lee shellholder, I see this being a problem.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

With rcbs dies I have used rcbs and Lyman shell holders without any problems. I have had problems with the same holders and Hornady .22 TCM dies. The only way to know for sure it to try.

A case gauge is a handy tool. I use one from Sheridan. The slotted gauge lets you see what is wrong.

For more info: www.300blktalk.com/forum

 

[Paddy]

If you are converting your own brass from 223 Then my Amatuer opinion is you need the case gauge and the sheridan is the best. Lot of stubborn brass out there.

 

[gojuice101]

I load 300blk and I do not have a case gauge. I got the Lee trimmer because I was converting 223 brass. That allows me to make sure the case length is correct. But I reload all my calibers without a case gauge for any of them. You can reload just fine without one. Since you are having problems, it might be worth it to you though. I've converted many pieces of 223 brass from different manufacturers and never ran into a problem.

 

[jmorris]

The Lee shell holder will work with other dies.

You don't need a case gauge but they are handy.

My Lee die didn't quite size enough to form brass when I bought it, had to turn .010" off the end of it.

You could expand with a 7.62x39 die if you wanted to.

 

[mstreddy]

ReefinMike,

One thing to check is the headstamps. There are some out there that have thicker bodies, that result in thicker neck/mouth areas and will give problems. The 300blacktalk forum has a list of known good/bad brass. I've encountered the issues on MKE brass, it's too thick and results in out of spec ammo that has problems chambering.

I just ordered the Sheridan Slotted case gauge for the 300 Blackout as I'm getting ready to form a large batch of 223.

 

[rg1]

I can only recommend either Hornady or RCBS standard die sets. Haven't needed small base for 2 BLK's. I do like the Hornady Headspace Gauge set that works with your calipers to measure the amount you push the shoulder back and also to measure fired brass from your gun. My Hornady and RCBS sizers will push the shoulder back to "zero" and a little more with cam over. I prefer the roll crimp seater die for bullet crimping. I've seen no need for small based sizing dies. Just to check your shellholder, measure from the top where the die contacts to the shelf the case sits on. It should measure .125".

 

[Reefinmike]

Yes, I do sort by headstamp and weed out all the thick brass. mainly cbc, ppu, wolf. If I miss a piece, it is very easy to tell when pulling the expander ball back out of the case and they stick out like a sore thumb if you try to trim them in the wft.

for my trial runs, Im using only converted FC/LC brass.

and yes, I am needing the sb die. Its pretty embarrassing trying to hammer out a loaded round that got stuck in the chamber out of battery at the range. some cases are simply not sized down enough with the lee sizer.

 

[mstreddy]

Mike,

I've only loaded around 500-600 rounds, so not an expert as some here. I'm using Hornady die set, and my first batch was with converted brass that I bought from a user here. That batch had a mix of FC, LC, WCC and some MKE. Some, not all of the MKE gave me grief as mentioned above. Like you, at the range and not able to chamber the rounds. Luckily they didn't get stuck too bad, but wouldn't go into battery.

Have you tried to chamber a sized case with no bullet? Maybe that can help you in determining if it's sizing issue vs a loaded round issue. Maybe the brass length, OAL, etc...

 

[Reefinmike]

mstreddy- of course I've played around with sized cases in the chamber. it is a sizing issue, not a case length or bullet depth issue. a sharpie colored case shows the problem area. At least for initially converting brass, I have no doubts that I need the sb dies. I may be able to use my lee dies after initial forming.

Its not the brass brand that is causing issues, I junk any mke, ppu, wolf, s&b cbc etc etc. they simply dont form well due to thickness. im only using fc/lc stamp for now.

 

[Paddy]

One thing at helps me when forming new brass is I "double tap" the case by forming, then I rotate the case 180° in e she'll holder and run it through again.

One question for people suggesting using the rifle chamber to check sizing, how do you do this? It's dark and deep, and to really check you need to close bolt, and at that point it might be seriously stuck in there.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

One thing I forgot. For loading lead .300 AAC and 7.62 I size with the expander from the die set. Then I run the brass through my .32-20 expander which opens the neck and bells.

 

[Reefinmike]

Paddy- drop em in and listen for plunk. Round should freely drop out when held upside down
Jesse- currently im using a 357 mag/max powder through expander die body with a 30 carbine expander insert. Im well aware this is not a true expander. Im just using it to bell the case a hair and throw powder.

A member on 300blktalk just suggested i call rcbs for a proper expander. Dies ordered, case closed. Thanks for the input all.

 

[Sunray]

Hi. The shell holder has nothing to do with fitting or not fitting the dies. The shell holder holds the case on the press. The brand of dies used makes no difference. The brand of press might though.
"...I'm loading 300blk..." .300 AAC Blackout? Uses .308" bullets. .309" cast. Although I'm seeing guys on 300blktalk talking about .310 and .311" cast. Same guys saying they go in at .311" and out at .310" and don't work well anyway.
Like MaterDei says, use your calipre as a case length gauge.

 

[rg1]

From all I've read about 300 BLK dies I'd still say it's more than likely an issue with the Lee sizer. Too many complaints with them in 300 BLK. Small based dies should solve your problems but shoulder set back still needs to be measured. A good sizer die should form and size in one step and not need separate steps. Thicker cases causes necks to be oversized. Necks should measure .334" diameter or less with a loaded .308 bullet. You can run your BLK cases through a .223 Rem sizing die if you think your .300 BLK cases have body sizing problems. Your .310-.311 bullets may be making the necks too large in diameter. Thicker brass and oversized bullets may make your necks larger than .334" and prevent or jam the neck in your chamber. LC brass makes the thinnest necks of all I've loaded. I've read that rifle loaders shooting lead bullets often use Lyman's M expander die to help seat lead bullets.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/40...r-m-die-30-caliber-short?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Read the reviews under this article as some say you need to modify this die or use shims for it to work in .300 BLK but all seem to say it makes seating lead bullets much easier. I have no experience with lead bullets but if all else fails with your lead bullets and too large necks you may need to size your lead bullets and Lee's bullet sizer die works well and they have .308 and .309" sizers.
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/

 

[oldpapps]

"I have lee dies but Im having problems with freshly converted brass"

The questions first:
Head/shell holder will work.
Use the regular Decapping/expanding rod but get one of the neck belling/expanding dies (Lee has one that is cheap and works very well when dealing with lead/coated bullets).
A gauge is nice but not required.

Now to your problem.
I use Lee 300 BlackOut dies and have found that I get better results if when converting brass that I go for a very tight/hard cam over during the sizing step and will full length size a second time. I also deprime cases before converting them.
Unless you have one of those very tight chambers, your Lee dies will work just fine. I have never had a true need to use small base dies but I do know some weapons that need them. Also, before I convert .223/5.56 brass, I anneal it. I can't say that it is needed but I only convert old 'shot' .223/5.56 brass that has ran its normal life. Split or crunched case mouths being the common cause with unknown numbers of previous loadings. Thus my desire to anneal.