RCBS Pro 2000 Owners: Why not the less expensive Hornady LNL AP?

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First off, the title is NOT to suggest you should have bought the Hornady :)

Both the RCBS and Hornady are top contenders for my next press (currently use a Lee Classic single stage). If the RCBS has an advantage(s) over the Hornady, then I have no issue spending the extra $100 or so. So my logic in asking is that several Pro 2000 owners must have thought there was an advantage(s) worth paying for. Granted, some Hornady owners may disagree but from what I see, these two presses more or less compete with one another with only subtle advantages/disadvantages.

So what say you Pro 2000 owners?
 
I like green better ;)

Really though I've always used rcbs all the way back to the early 90's with a RC. When it came time to upgrade to a progressive I stayed brand loyal.
And I really liked the idea of the aps strips over tubes.

Honestly if I were to look for a 2nd progresive, I'd look hard at an Lnl. I've got zero regrets with the pro 2k though.
 
Aps priming system is a plus, also pound for pound, you get twice the press with rcbs. Theyre both fine choices. Check ebay for something used if you're not in a hurry. They dont wear out. Ever.
 
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I have never owned one but I have also never owned a Sabb.

Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan, the list can go on and on, someone will always buy something. Even if it costs more and delivers less performance.

I have RCBS equipment but their progressive press lacks a lot, for what I do. For others it's a perfect match.

Could make the same argument for shoes, not one type is for all people.
 
I have both a Hornady L-N-L and an RCBS Pro2000. I like them both.

The APS priming system is better than the Hornady (or Dillon SDB for that matter). The Pro2000 is the only press that I prime cases on.

The indexing of the Hornady is better. Half a step on the up stroke and half a step on the down stroke shakes the cases less and spills less powder if the cases are full.

The RCBS rotates the cases such that the charged case is towards the back of the press. It is harder to look in the case to make sure there is powder there.

The case retaining system on the Pro2000's shell plate is better than the spring on the Hornady.

So, pick the color who best matches the decor in your reloading room.
 
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A great post I may go progressive one of these days .. Have a old Rock Chucker kit and love Hornady dies it is good to hear things about both company s Glad to know both are top shelf quality products .
 
I have no vested interested in what press a reloader purchases, I have the Pro 2000. No one could grasp the logic, I have 2 Piggy Back 11s. The shell holder plates for the Piggy Back press fit the Pro 2000, that was a $200.00+ savings.

I am the fan of anything that overcomes the cases ability to resist sizing, then there are powder measures, the uniflow fits both the Piggy Back and the Pro 2000.

Then there are powder lock out dies and powder dies.

F. Guffey
 
I have had both Hornady Projector and RCBS Piggy back two at the same time.
I had upgraded both presses to be as modern as possible.
When I was researching the move to a new progressive. I noted that the Hornady LNL AP and the Pro 2000 still use the same basic operation with refinements to improve some of the short comings of the older systems.

I chose the LNL AP for two reasons.
1st was the trade in from Hornady. Only cost me $200 for the upgrade.
2nd was the fact I prefer the case rotation on the Hornady and the deck space on the top. More room on top to attach dies and what not.

Had I not had the Projector, I may have went with the Pro 2000.
Hornady states they have a life time warranty, But it is not even on the same planet as the RCBS warranty.

RCBS fixes any RCBS product I have had no question no matter the age.

Hornady only warranty for the expected life of a product. The reason I needed to upgrade my Projector was because Hornady no longer supported it.
I had to trade it in.
 
I am the fan of anything that overcomes the cases ability to resist sizing, then there are powder measures, the uniflow fits both the Piggy Back and the Pro 2000.

The case activated drop systems between the Hornady and the RCBS are virtully identical. As a unit, they can be used on either press although I do not think the individual linkages can be interchanged.

One is licensed built from the other but I forget which way the license goes.

I put the Uniflow powder measure that came with the Pro2000 in a Hornady drop system and use it on the Pro2000 for reasons other than I feel one drop system is better than the other.
 
Thanks for the very insightful responses thus far. I appreciate each pointing out the technical differences mentioned. I can also appreciate brand loyalty if for no other reason.

Hmmm...I wonder if the red Hornady would clash with the red Lee press. Then again, the Pro 2000 would match my 505 scale perfectly. Sounds like there is no wrong choice.
 
I think RCBS customer service has an edge over Hornady. They are a no BS kind of warranty like the Blue guys. The RCBS is heavy cast metal the Hornady is lighter alloy.

Pluses and minus they are both good.

I prefer to keep dies all together on one die holder rather than individual screw in bushings. I you don't change calibers much then no big deal.

Perhaps go to this site and watch the videos may help you decide.

Click on the brand and there are many well done videos:

http://ultimatereloader.com/2011/01/16/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-feeder-loading-45-acp/
 
All we have is opinions......When I was looking for a progressive it was between the Dillon 650 and the Pro 2000. After a month or two researching, the Pro 2000 won out after I spent a day with each.

Why didn't I spend a day with the Hornady? Only one reason, and it had absolutely nothing to do any perceived lack of quality: I just personally prefer the notion of setting up die plates (Dillon or RCBS style) once, rather than gathering 4 or 5 die-filled Hornady bushings, every time I change calibers. But then I change calibers a lot and I'm limited to one press.

Dillon lost my purchase over the priming system, and the cost. the aluminum casting, and complexity and cost of changing calibers. The 650 is MADE for IDPS, and IPSC shooters who aren't interested in loading 3 calibers a night......or jmorris-types who can afford to have 4 or 5 presses set up more or less permanently for one thing. For those uses, they are hard to beat.....but then there's the Dillon 1050, and beat it it does, in spades.....and it's cast iron too! But the price is way out of my league.....and changing calibers every nite? That's not going to happen more than once with a 650, worse with a 1050.

The Hornady is a fine product.....just too complicated, harder to keep running smooth. There are some advantages for some with the "bushing" design over the die plate design....but not for me. I like Hornady's simple bullet feeders and I use a pistol version on my Pro 2000. (the colors don't clash, reminds be of Christmas!:))

Caliber changes on the Hornady are faster than Dillons, but slower than on the Pro 2000. Add the case feeder....even slower, but for a guy who wants to load multiple calibers per night it's better, just not great.....you still have to load and unload primer tubes and changing primer sizes is not the simple 10 second procedure found on the RCBS.

RCBS's APS system is a wonderfully safe priming system, IMO it removes one of the most dangerous aspects of reloading. You will never explode more than one or two primers at a time....no matter how careless you are at the crank. If you buy preloaded primers in strips, its also the fastest primer system. If you buy primers in bulk (dumbish if you don't) you don't even notice the very slightly higher price of primers. (worth every penny to me....change calibers by pulling a large primer strip out, pushing in a different strip.)

The RCBS press itself, is the only cast iron progressive outside a Dillon 1050. So it never breaks like Aluminum Alloy presses will...eventually...if they are well used. Its also the simplest press, fewest moving parts, and it works once set up correctly, with never a need to resync or readjust.

jmorris's Saab analogy might fit if it was some obscure brand, but this is RCBS, the company with the best rep and service in the business. Why isn't it as popular in sales as Dillon or Hornady? Cast iron price, and un-appreciated APS primer system (unfathomable to me), and what RCBS is worst at.....marketing. (shoulda added Dillon's 20 year head start at rotational progressives, and Hornady's free bullets in the reasons :rolleyes:)

But it's gaining momentum....when I first started hanging out here, me and Peter Eick were the only loud mouths making green Pro-2k noise. Now we have lots of friends.....I counted 60 something a few months ago....trouble is most don't post a lot. they're too busy loading without the troubles others have to post about. The presses just work.

PS. If you think the tube-fed primers aren't dangerous, just ask Hornady or Dillon why they have those big shields surrounding their primer tubes. No question they help, now instead of killing or maiming, now they just punch holes in the ceiling.....but do wear ear protection.
 
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^^^ what GW Staar said is dead on

I had the L-N-L for about 6 weeks, befor returning it. A good press but either it or me had issues, like the auto indexing spilling powder and a primer system that wasn`t reliable. That was my 3rd brand of progressives that never hit the mark for me. Almost went back to loading on a turret.

I ordered a PRO 2000, that was 12 yrs ago and it has been trouble free. I like manual indexing for control and ease of use, the powder mrasure and APS primer feed are better than the other types I have tryied.
It is just what what I thought a progressive should be.

BTW, I started to call and ask RCBS why they don`t sell a "spare parts kit" then realized, what would I do with it. :)
 
I went with the pro 2000 for a few reasons. It was on sale when I bought it. The caliber changes are very quick and easy which comes in very handy for me because I sometimes only load a couple hundred of a few different calibers at a time. The aps strips are amazing. So much better than loading them in a tube or priming off the press. The last few times I have bought primers pre loaded in the aps strips, they have been cheaper than standard primers. Picked up a few thousand CCI small rifle primers for $26/1000 the other day at cabelas when the small rifle not in aps strips were on sale for $33/1000.
 
I bought a Pro 2000 auto indexing because it was $393 shipped after rebate. That's was a couple of years ago when Kittery Trading Post had a 25% off sale on reloading tools. It was sort of an impulse buy since I already own Dillon and Hornady as well.
My biggest complaint with the Pro is that it would occasionally lockup upon ejecting a round. I could never get it to run 100%. My son uses it now.
Maybe I'll send it to GW Staar who is the indisputable guru of Pro 2000's...I'd rather have him work on it than RCBS.
 
Otto, having three presses you've found out what we all do.....there is no such thing as perfect machines, each press has minor quirks to overcome as part of the learning curve. Plus we sometimes find samples of brass that makes a press cough a little. Usually, you just toss such brass or fix it.

Quality control isn't perfect in this world either....and sometimes you just get unlucky. Lucky thing is RCBS will bend over backwards to make it work or make it right. Another on this forum got such an unusual Q.C. glitch and RCBS sent him a whole new shell plate assembly, right away.

On to your glitch: (1)does the ejection wire catch the ejecting case due to too flat an angle or (2) is the case not sliding smoothly out of the shell plate or (3) does the shell plate not get mounted correctly so that the pawl doesn't turn it normal smooth as butter?

Case 1 is cured by changing the angle of the ejection wire so that the cases slide off it every time. (loosen allen screw, turn wire, re-tighten) If that doesn't cure it, then it may be (Case 2) that you have a few cases that don't slide easily in and out of the shell holder. Shell holder may have some flash somewhere, or more common, misshapen, damaged or thick-rimmed case heads cause the binding. You may have investigate and watch which cases/shellplates do it. IME, non-mainstream brass, or slammed brass from AR ejectors, usually are the culprits. If I want to use such brass, I just polish the shell plate a little to make more clearance, and/or fix the brass with a file. I did find one of my 6 shell plates with a little flash (that's minor and one took 30 seconds of scraping & burnishing to fix it.

Case 3 usually means that the shell plate is screwed down with the index pawl crammed between shell plate index holes......do that a few times and you will ruin the pawl....that means a call to RCBS to get you a few free extras...

Case 3 is part of the learning curve.....once learned, it's never repeated.
Here's a link with a short video at the end to describe a simple way to screw down shell plates and keep the indexing ball and pawl in the recesses where they belong.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/356317_How_to_set_a_RCBS_Pro_2000_shell_plate_easily__Video_.html
 
The angle of the ejection wire is kind of an art. Is there any gudance on an angle to start with? If brass hangs on it, i just change the angle a couple degrees either way and its good until i change callibers.
 
my wire seems to have a flat spot from the set screw, so any time i change plates and re tighten it goes back to the same spot, which works perfectly.
 
fwiw,
I bought the Pro-2000 in early 2002 and paid right at or slightly less than $300 for the whole kit from Grafs. I was buying a lot of high end reloading gear(Sinclair Intl sends me a Christmas Card;-) and found the Pro 2000 to be about the most bang for the buck I have ever received... I like the way it loads and RCBS has always been good to me. The powder lock out die is heaven sent and the unit just keeps on working. I have yet to convert it to an auto indexing unit, however, it does just fine as is. It also strikes me as one hell of a lot of green cast iron for the money...

The day we mounted it to the bench I decided to set it up and load with it. I had never loaded on a progressive, nor had my uncle, however, we were cranking out .45 ACP rounds that functioned in any of the 20 1911s that lay in the safe drawers. My uncle, coming from a different generation, was awfully impressed. As he had been for years with RCBS gear since the 60's...

Oddly enough if I did not have this unit on my bench I would buy a full meal deal Dillon Super 1050. I've even come close to doing so on several occasions. That said I don't shoot enough to tax the Pro 2000 and won't bring much as used gear. Not to mention having to pay to have it shipped anywhere would be expensive. Not to mention that it does exactly what I ask of it every time.... Hard to kick her out of bed if you know what I mean...;-)

Never worked a great deal with Hornady gear. Aside from their Magnum Sonic Cleaner which is a Made in China POS... Like some of their engineering but they were always approximating something that SEEMED a little better built from someone else... Not likely to buy anything from them after the Sonic Cleaner either. Found an industrial place that sells Made in USA units bigger than the POS from Hornady for about $35 more. Neat idea but poor execution...imho

Regards, Matt.
 
Per GW staar's case#2 problem.
A little valve grinding compound, a drill, and a scrap shell casing.
Will smooth up a shell plate real nice and quick.

100_8215.jpg
 
Thanks for the additional responses guys!

GW Starr said: "RCBS's APS system is a wonderfully safe priming system, IMO it removes one of the most dangerous aspects of reloading. You will never explode more than one or two primers at a time....no matter how careless you are at the crank.

PS. If you think the tube-fed primers aren't dangerous, just ask Hornady or Dillon why they have those big shields surrounding their primer tubes. No question they help, now instead of killing or maiming, now they just punch holes in the ceiling.....but do wear ear protection."


I'm convinced :)
 
On to your glitch: (1)does the ejection wire catch the ejecting case due to too flat an angle or (2) is the case not sliding smoothly out of the shell plate or (3) does the shell plate not get mounted correctly so that the pawl doesn't turn it normal smooth as butter?
Thanks for the reply GW. Without hijacking this thread with my issues, I will say that I've tried all three of your suggestions.
I've even ordered new parts from RCBS (eject wire, case retaining springs and detent ball spring).
The failure of brass ejecting is intermittent (1 in 20). This makes it difficult to pinpoint the exact cause.
When I get a chance to sit down with Pro 2K again I'll diagnose it some more and might even PM you. Like I said, my son is using it now.
One thing is for sure, this press is built like a tank.
 
Otto: It sounds like the issue with your (and your son's) Pro 2000 can not be resolved easily. At this point, it may be better to just part ways with it. I'll take one for the team here and humbly accept the broken press. No need to pony up for postage either...got ya covered. ;)

OK...back to reality. I hope you're able to fix the glitch :)
 
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