re-stocking, need input for ar

[dakotasin]

seems that last weekend's 3-day dog foray has depleted my supplies a bit. so, i went on a reloading binge, and am trying to re-stock. i got everything set except for the ar-15.

i found a great load for the ar using h-322 and sierra 63 grain smp's. unfortunately, while i can still get the smp's, it is a mail-order proposition only - none of the local guys stock 'em anymore. no matter, 60 grain v-max's shoot tight - even better than the smp's, but now i need powder. was using aa 2230, but that stuff is driving me nuts. goes from safe to blowing primers w/ no warnings, and only .3 grains between safe and primers stuck in my magazine. so, i figured i'd switch to h-322 and be happy. trouble is, that stuff is $170/8lb locally, and is only available at one place - nobody else stocks anymore than 1-pound cans, and i need to load several thousand pieces, ie, 1-pound jugs aren't gonna do the trick.

so, i am on the hunt for a new load for the ar-15. got 1100 v-max's to start, and am gonna go get a few more today, since i need a stupid shellholder anyway. but, the problem is the powder. i'm going to mail order that, so powder options are open. bullets i want to keep local, since it seems i need bullets more often than i need powder.

so what powder seems to meter well, run an ar-15 appropriately, and is prairie dog accurate to at least 500 yards? my contenders list right now is h-322, h-335, h4895, and 2230c. i am a little leary of 2230c because of my piss-poor experience w/ 2230, but i'm willing to try it if it is the best.

any input?

 

[redneck2]

Varget

 

[taliv]

uhh, 2230c may or may not be prairie-dog accurate, but i don't believe it's billed as such. it's reputation is closer to "surplus military powder": pretty good and very cheap

also, i can't imagine .3 grains of any powder would take you from "safe" to blown primers with no warning. something else is going on, for sure.


varget works well in ARs. VV140 and 540 have great reputations in ARs.

 

[dakotasin]

thanks for the input.

yes, .3 grains was all it took to make a mess. i spent lots much time w/ sierra and accurate trying to sort thru the problem. at any rate, the problem is repeatable w/ 2230 and 63 smp's, and i did try other powders, including gross overloads, and i never got that problem w/ the other powders. at any rate, it is a done deal now, and i appreciate your input.

by your definition of 2230c as 'pretty good', is there any way to quantify that, maybe in terms of 'as accurate as...' or something?

 

[trickyasafox]

i like 26.4 grains of 748 with a 55gr fmj

 

[milanuk]

25.5gr H335 or 26.5gr Win748 have been 'favorite' loads of mine (and alot of others)... both kind of seem to fall into the category of 'if your gun doesn't shoot w/ these, get your gun fixed!

I've been using 23.5gr AA2230C behind a Hornady 75gr BTHP for NRA Highpower... no problems. E.S. and S.D. were absolutely attrocious, but it still hammers the X @ 300yds so... dunno. Very tempted to just forget what I saw on the chrono and keep loading and shooting it at 200/300yds, but then what is a non-issue for me (as far as velocity spreads affecting my score) might be a different thing altogether for someone shooting supported w/ a scope and bipod...

Do a search on this board for AA2230C... one of the guys here has been posting a pic or two of a pretty good group he got w/ AA2230C and a cheap Hornady 55gr spire point bullet.

Monte

 

[P0832177]

My first thought is www.powdervalleyinc.com for mail order. But, I would think you might want to look at Ramshot TAC. It is supposedly what BHA uses in their 223 and 308 lineup? I love the consistent charges I get from the Dillon Powder Measure or the RCBS Uniflow. Powder Valley has it in 8# for 93.xx plus shipping and Haz Mat would still beat 170.00...

 

[1911 guy]

Another vote for Varget

I like to keep things simple, so I use Varget to load for both my .223's and my .308. I've found Varget loads that do well in both.

 

[dakotasin]

po8- i never thought of tac (considered benchmark, but never tac)... and bha shoots thru my ar incredibly accurate. do you have any sort of a reliable source for the bha using tac? or, what makes you think it is what bha uses?

thanks for the help!

 

[Powderman]

Check out www.gibrass.com

for some good deals on milsurp powders for all of the military calibers--good deals on brass and bullets, too!

Here are some examples:

WC844--military ball powder, works great through powder measures, loads using H335 data, and is used for 5.56 ammunition. $72.00 for an 8 lb jug.

IMR 4895--the powder of choice for cartridges like .30-06 and .308, and many others. Extruded powder; $80.00 for 8 lb.

Need bullets? How 'bout that M193, 55 grain ball, or the 62 grain M855 ball? He's got that, and at good prices. Maybe some 147 gr. FMJBT, or 150 grain spitzers? Those are in, too.

And, for the accuracy folks, he has a quantity of 173 grain .30 caliber match bullets. Same ones loaded in Lake City Match, and 7.62 Special Ball.

Check out the brass, too!

I have done some good business with Jeff Bartlett. He is a great businessman and a gentleman, and I highly recommend him. Give him a shot!

 

[KS1911]

That is weird. I have been using the 2230 as well. I have changed my loads from the low to the high ranging over 1.5 grains. Heck, accurate uses a range of almost 2.5 grains for low to high loads. That is strange that you getting that kind of results. Maybe I missed it, but what kind of brass are you using.

I would second the varget for another powder to try.

 

[redneck2]

Yeah, forgot to ask about brass. I have a friend that shoots high power competition. He used Remington brass and had the heads pull off. Called RRA and the first thing they asked was "It's Remington brass, isn't it???"

Now, if they know right off the top, I suspect there's a problem HTH

 

[dakotasin]

ks- federal brass. i've been loading for about 7 years, and currently load for most of my guns, except for half a dozen or so (covers about 25 different cartridges). so, this behavior w/ 2230 was new to me... i'd have to dig my notes up to give you exact numbers, but i do remember that not only could i not even make it to the listed max load in my sierra manual, the minimum load was plenty hot. using accurate's numbers (which are more conservative than sierra's), the max load still blew primers, and the start load was about right. however, i wasn't getting very good load density at 19-ish grains of powder. accurate told me that they have a tolerance of +/- 3% lot-to-lot variation, making it mathematically possible for one lot to be 6% faster/slower than another. sounds good, except my numbers were far more than 6% off from either company's data. sierra told me that this was the first problem they had heard of w/ their manual.

so, to do an elimination process, i loaded w/ h-322 and had no problems. i ran the h-322 data well beyond the listed max, and still had no problems. the brass was prepped at the same time, w/ the same settings, the powder was thrown and trickled on the same scale w/ the same zero, bullets were seated to the same c.o.l., and primers came from the same box of 1000.

the bottom line: sierra says the powder i got is unusually hot, far beyond accurate's claim of +/- 3%. accurate claims that sierra's data is faulty, and is in fact, just too hot. i believe that the powder is the problem, and that it might even be mislabeled.

as far as other loadings go, everything has been predictable and reliable, and i have had no problems working up to or over max. factory loads run just fine. as far as i can tell, the problem is w/ the powder.

now that i got that story out of the way again, let's talk about ramshot tac...

 

[landon74]

I like H335 for .223 loads in my AR.... meters well, plus I use it for .308 as well....

 

[KS1911]

dakota,

Thanks for the extra info. I'm no expert by any means. I would be beating my head against the wall if I was having results like yours. I just bought a new 8 lb. batch of 2230 a couple weeks ago. Hope it's not a bad batch!

 

[Master Blaster]

http://www.wideners.com/searchview.cfm

114.00 plus hazmat and shipping.

I like varget