Cosmoline
Member
I'm waiting to get my new marching orders from the NRA before I respond.
Real hunters and shooters need to stand up to the NRA
- Thread starter Dan from MI
- Start date
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Hkmp5sd
Member
Yet, let one politician say something disagreeable about blacks and watch the reaction of the NAACP. Let a professional athlete comment about personal feelings toward gays and watch the alphabet soups line up to rip him a new sphincter.
We were THERE ... and this is how it worked.
Here is a timeline, for those few souls who weren't online through the whole fiasco or who haven't been paying attention:
Zumbo posted to his blog late Friday night, at the beginning of a long holiday weekend (which turned out to be far longer than he had bargained for, I reckon!).
By Saturday mid-day, the sportsmen and hunters who read Zumbo's blog and were disgusted by his comments had alerted the rest of the online world.
By Saturday night, the blog had upwards of several thousand angry comments on it.
By mid-day Sunday, several sponsors had already pulled out (Remington chief among them), and the blog had a weasel-worded note from Zumbo's editor saying that Outdoor Life didn't necessarily endorse blah blah blah.
Sunday afternoon/evening, Zumbo went on GunTalk with Tom Gresham to try to do some damage control. Most people weren't buying it (you could check the threads here on THR about this to find out just how emphatically they were not buying it).
By Monday afternoon, there were several official announcements from various sponsors who had pulled out and Zumbo's blog was down permanently.
Tuesday morning -- the first day back at work for folks who'd had the holiday off -- it was all over but the clean up.
The NRA finally made some sort of an announcement about Zumbo on Thursday morning, after all the sponsors had pulled out and Outdoor Life had severed ties with Zumbo.
Now, given that timeline, exactly how it was that the (completely absent) NRA gave us all our marching orders, I just do not know.
These folks just cannot stand the knowledge that what we've got here is a genuine grass-roots effort to retain and expand our gun rights. They've played on astroturf for so long, they don't even know what the real thing looks like anymore!
pax
Here is a timeline, for those few souls who weren't online through the whole fiasco or who haven't been paying attention:
Zumbo posted to his blog late Friday night, at the beginning of a long holiday weekend (which turned out to be far longer than he had bargained for, I reckon!).
By Saturday mid-day, the sportsmen and hunters who read Zumbo's blog and were disgusted by his comments had alerted the rest of the online world.
By Saturday night, the blog had upwards of several thousand angry comments on it.
By mid-day Sunday, several sponsors had already pulled out (Remington chief among them), and the blog had a weasel-worded note from Zumbo's editor saying that Outdoor Life didn't necessarily endorse blah blah blah.
Sunday afternoon/evening, Zumbo went on GunTalk with Tom Gresham to try to do some damage control. Most people weren't buying it (you could check the threads here on THR about this to find out just how emphatically they were not buying it).
By Monday afternoon, there were several official announcements from various sponsors who had pulled out and Zumbo's blog was down permanently.
Tuesday morning -- the first day back at work for folks who'd had the holiday off -- it was all over but the clean up.
The NRA finally made some sort of an announcement about Zumbo on Thursday morning, after all the sponsors had pulled out and Outdoor Life had severed ties with Zumbo.
Now, given that timeline, exactly how it was that the (completely absent) NRA gave us all our marching orders, I just do not know.
These folks just cannot stand the knowledge that what we've got here is a genuine grass-roots effort to retain and expand our gun rights. They've played on astroturf for so long, they don't even know what the real thing looks like anymore!
pax
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Now, now, pax. Never let facts get in the way of a good squalling fit. 
Art
Art
Deanimator
Member
That should give you an idea of just HOW thoroughly the National Firearms Association was crushed out of existence. I'll bet barely 1 out of 100 HARDCORE gun rights activists remember them.
Kimber1911_06238
Member
I am primarily a hunter...but also enjoy target shooting. Anyone who thinks they are better than the "black rifle crowd" is just plain worng. We need to stick together and support our common cause. The antis are trying to split us up....the whole divide and conquer routine. Seems lately that some of the gun snobs are falling right into this trap.
I am a member of the NRA!
I am a hunter. I don't now nor have I ever owned an assault rifle, only bolt or lever-action, single shot, or black powder. I do own a shotgun with a synthetic stock, but it is camo, not black. I do own pistols.
Even if I never owned a gun, I would support the 2nd Amendment just as I support the 1st and all the others! The Constitution and Bill of Rights in reality list the responsibilities given by the people to the government, NOT the rights given to the people by the government. Your Senator, Representative, the President, Supreme Court Judges, etc. are merely hired help. At their best, they are almost as valuable as a good plumber. At their worst, they are the reason we need the 2nd Amendment, and the NRA.
I am a hunter. I don't now nor have I ever owned an assault rifle, only bolt or lever-action, single shot, or black powder. I do own a shotgun with a synthetic stock, but it is camo, not black. I do own pistols.
Even if I never owned a gun, I would support the 2nd Amendment just as I support the 1st and all the others! The Constitution and Bill of Rights in reality list the responsibilities given by the people to the government, NOT the rights given to the people by the government. Your Senator, Representative, the President, Supreme Court Judges, etc. are merely hired help. At their best, they are almost as valuable as a good plumber. At their worst, they are the reason we need the 2nd Amendment, and the NRA.
Professor K
Member
Whenever I see that title, or the "NRA is bad" my first thought it "wow, someone agrees with me that they compromise too much and stuff." Then the article is saying the NRA is bad for something they had no part of...
Liberal Gun Nut
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2006
- Messages
- 388
Most hunters own a pistol or a revolver, and the gun banning crowd does want to get pistols and revolvers. Even the Brady Campaign is ok with traditional hunting arms (traditional hunting rifles and shotguns) but nothing else.
Hkmp5sd
Member
This was a Lose-Lose situation for gun owners no matter what action was taken. If we remained quiet, the antis would use Zumbo as a poster child for how real hunters don't like black rifles. By pouncing on Zumbo, the antis can use Zumbo to smear us as unthinking NRA zombies.
The only good coming from this episode is that those that depend on the pro gun community for their livelihoods will think twice before making a similar statement, regardless of their actual beliefs. Proof of our combined power can be seen in how fast the magazine and other sponsers dropped the hot potato.
If Zumbo really wants to acquit himself, he would seek space in each newspaper running this or a similar article and print the truth behind his downfall.
The only good coming from this episode is that those that depend on the pro gun community for their livelihoods will think twice before making a similar statement, regardless of their actual beliefs. Proof of our combined power can be seen in how fast the magazine and other sponsers dropped the hot potato.
If Zumbo really wants to acquit himself, he would seek space in each newspaper running this or a similar article and print the truth behind his downfall.
Glad to do my part. Submitting a Letter to the Editor now.
Letter submitted - thanks to Pax for saving me some late-night research.
Mr. Schoenke, apparently, needs a review of the contents and timeline surrounding the blog article written by Jim Zumbo. Perhaps if he were more familiar with the article and that timeline, he wouldn't be given to such gross inaccuracies in his opinion piece. First the timeline:
Mr. Zumbo's comments are the same kind of prejudiced nonsense that went into the "Assault Weapons Ban", where the external accoutrements of your rifle - not it's capabilities or function - determined whether it was banned or legal. The response from gun owners on Zumbo's blog came as a direct result of Zumbo's prejudices about what does and doesn't have a place in "the hunting fraternity." In the end, it was his own haste and poor choices in wording that led to his downfall, not the NRA.
Respectfully,
M. McMahon
Safe Shooting Enthusiast
Zumbo posted to his blog late Friday night, at the beginning of a long holiday weekend.
- By Saturday mid-day, the sportsmen and hunters who read Zumbo's blog and were disgusted by his comments had alerted the rest of the online world.
- By Saturday night, the blog had upwards of several thousand angry comments on it.
- By mid-day Sunday, several sponsors had already pulled out (Remington chief among them), and the blog had note from Zumbo's editor saying that Outdoor Life didn't necessarily endorse Zumbo's opinion.
- Sunday afternoon/evening, Zumbo went on GunTalk with Tom Gresham to try to do some damage control.
- By Monday afternoon, there were several official announcements from various sponsors who had pulled out and Zumbo's blog was down permanently.
- Tuesday morning -- the first day back at work for folks who'd had the holiday off -- it was all over but the clean up.
- The NRA finally made some sort of an announcement about Zumbo on Thursday morning, after all the sponsors had pulled out and Outdoor Life had severed ties with Zumbo.
Mr. Zumbo's comments are the same kind of prejudiced nonsense that went into the "Assault Weapons Ban", where the external accoutrements of your rifle - not it's capabilities or function - determined whether it was banned or legal. The response from gun owners on Zumbo's blog came as a direct result of Zumbo's prejudices about what does and doesn't have a place in "the hunting fraternity." In the end, it was his own haste and poor choices in wording that led to his downfall, not the NRA.
Respectfully,
M. McMahon
Safe Shooting Enthusiast
Last edited:
Selfdfenz
Member
LGN
Oh please.
How can BC be "ok" with "traditional hunting rifles and shotguns" yet in favor of banning the ammunition those firearms use?
Best,
S-
Oh please.
How can BC be "ok" with "traditional hunting rifles and shotguns" yet in favor of banning the ammunition those firearms use?
Best,
S-
molonlabe
Member
All you need to know about this group is here.
The leaders of the AHSA are:
Ray Schoenke, founding president. A former football player for the Washington Redskins, Schoenke ran for Governor of Maryland as a Democrat and has given "millions" to Democrat politicians and causes according to a January 19, 1998 Washington Post article. Among the groups that Schoenke has donated to are two that actively lobby to ban firearms: Handgun Control, Inc. and America Coming Together. Schoenke was on the Governor's Commission on Gun Violence in 1996.
Bob Ricker, executive director (google for info)
John E. Rosenthal, president of the AHSA Foundation and Founder of Stop Handgun Violence, a leading Massachusetts-based gun-banning lobbying group.
Joseph J. Vince, Jr., a member of the Board of Directors is the former chief of the BATF's crime guns analysis branch. Currently, he is a principal of Crime Gun Solutions. HCI has hired Crime Gun Solutions in order to support numerous gun control laws, to support HCI's lawsuits against firearm dealers and he was a signer on a letter submitted to Congress opposing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
Jody Powell, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board
A. Austin Dorr, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board
The leaders of the AHSA are:
Ray Schoenke, founding president. A former football player for the Washington Redskins, Schoenke ran for Governor of Maryland as a Democrat and has given "millions" to Democrat politicians and causes according to a January 19, 1998 Washington Post article. Among the groups that Schoenke has donated to are two that actively lobby to ban firearms: Handgun Control, Inc. and America Coming Together. Schoenke was on the Governor's Commission on Gun Violence in 1996.
Bob Ricker, executive director (google for info)
John E. Rosenthal, president of the AHSA Foundation and Founder of Stop Handgun Violence, a leading Massachusetts-based gun-banning lobbying group.
Joseph J. Vince, Jr., a member of the Board of Directors is the former chief of the BATF's crime guns analysis branch. Currently, he is a principal of Crime Gun Solutions. HCI has hired Crime Gun Solutions in order to support numerous gun control laws, to support HCI's lawsuits against firearm dealers and he was a signer on a letter submitted to Congress opposing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
Jody Powell, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board
A. Austin Dorr, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board
Last edited:
Titan6
member
Here is another one that offends my sensiblilities with all of the lies he packs in
'Zumbo was professionally assassinated by NRA hysteria for simply uttering a single and — many hunters would say — reasonable point of view.'
--- Which word? Ban? Terrorist? Ugly? He said a lot of words and I don't know any hunters that find it a reasonable POV.
'Returning from a weekend hunting trip in which he witnessed people using semiautomatic, military-style weapons to hunt varmints, Zumbo dashed off a column for his blog on Outdoor Life in which he played devil's advocate, suggesting these weapons are not appropriate for hunting.'
--- Nothing in the above parargraph is true. Zumbo had not returned, the weekend had not started, he had not seen (or claimed to see) people hunting with military style weapons. He was not playing devil's advocate and he did not 'suggest' anything.
'The reaction was swift — and brutal. The NRA whipped up a frenzy on the blogosphere, where a rabid fringe element of the hunting community denounced Zumbo in the harshest terms, even attacking his patriotism. Bowing to the intense pressure, Outdoor Life magazine fired Zumbo from his writing job, where he had won a huge following. The gun-company sponsors of Zumbo's highly rated weekly television show promptly pulled their support, thus killing the program. The NRA very publicly suspended all ties with Zumbo and cited the incident as a warning to anyone — "even fellow gun owners" — who might cross its powerful lobby.'
--- Except for the NRA part and highly rated show part this is all true. You reap what you sow.
'This incident is regrettable not only because it publicly humiliated an honorable sportsman, but also because it suggests that hunters and shooters are vindictive, close-minded zealots. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hunters and shooters are passionate about the Second Amendment, but we are not fascists. We recognize that reasonable people can disagree on reasonable issues.'
--- The incident is not regrettable. Pro 2A people are close minded zealots when it comes to calling for bans and calling someone a terrorist for the type of weapon they shoot. Fascists want to take the guns away not work to keep then. People can disagree on a wide range of issues including guns, but hypocrites deserve scorn.
For instance, in a 2003 hunters poll by Field & Stream, the majority of hunters (67 percent) considered assault-styled rifles as not legitimate sporting arms. The NRA knows this, which is why it moved so quickly to preempt any debate — and threaten any sportsman who dared express another opinion.
--- I have not seen this single poll but am curious. I wonder what 'assault style rifles' are or how they were defined for the poll. I am also sure the NRA went around the country and gave all the sportsmen a good talking to.... 'Yo, you mention the whole assault weapon ban thing and we come back and burn your garage down'....
'When the NRA can destroy a man like Zumbo for making a single observation that is actually embraced by a majority of sportsmen, it's time for all genuine sportsmen and women to ask a few basic questions:'
--- Liars like to repeat the same lie over and over again. It comforts the sheep.
If the NRA's leaders can turn on a hunting legend like Zumbo simply for engaging in a reasonable and rational discussion of a growing issue, what can they do to you and me? Is this the type of organization sportsmen should look to for leadership? Is this the organization political candidates should cozy up to?
--- Again with the same lie. And what discussion? Zumbo called a bunch of people terrorists and called for a ban not a debate. If he called for a reasonable debate he probably would still have a job and some sponsors, and might have learned things the easy way. I don't see the NRA as leaders at all. They work towards similar goals but they owe me little and I give them little. And a politician will cozy up to a rattlesnake if he thinks it will garner him a single vote. That is on them.
I count eleven lies. No reference to the article. No reference to Zumbo activities since that day. We all know that the antis as a group are a bunch of liars. I will go ahead and lump him and his group in there with him.
'Zumbo was professionally assassinated by NRA hysteria for simply uttering a single and — many hunters would say — reasonable point of view.'
--- Which word? Ban? Terrorist? Ugly? He said a lot of words and I don't know any hunters that find it a reasonable POV.
'Returning from a weekend hunting trip in which he witnessed people using semiautomatic, military-style weapons to hunt varmints, Zumbo dashed off a column for his blog on Outdoor Life in which he played devil's advocate, suggesting these weapons are not appropriate for hunting.'
--- Nothing in the above parargraph is true. Zumbo had not returned, the weekend had not started, he had not seen (or claimed to see) people hunting with military style weapons. He was not playing devil's advocate and he did not 'suggest' anything.
'The reaction was swift — and brutal. The NRA whipped up a frenzy on the blogosphere, where a rabid fringe element of the hunting community denounced Zumbo in the harshest terms, even attacking his patriotism. Bowing to the intense pressure, Outdoor Life magazine fired Zumbo from his writing job, where he had won a huge following. The gun-company sponsors of Zumbo's highly rated weekly television show promptly pulled their support, thus killing the program. The NRA very publicly suspended all ties with Zumbo and cited the incident as a warning to anyone — "even fellow gun owners" — who might cross its powerful lobby.'
--- Except for the NRA part and highly rated show part this is all true. You reap what you sow.
'This incident is regrettable not only because it publicly humiliated an honorable sportsman, but also because it suggests that hunters and shooters are vindictive, close-minded zealots. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hunters and shooters are passionate about the Second Amendment, but we are not fascists. We recognize that reasonable people can disagree on reasonable issues.'
--- The incident is not regrettable. Pro 2A people are close minded zealots when it comes to calling for bans and calling someone a terrorist for the type of weapon they shoot. Fascists want to take the guns away not work to keep then. People can disagree on a wide range of issues including guns, but hypocrites deserve scorn.
For instance, in a 2003 hunters poll by Field & Stream, the majority of hunters (67 percent) considered assault-styled rifles as not legitimate sporting arms. The NRA knows this, which is why it moved so quickly to preempt any debate — and threaten any sportsman who dared express another opinion.
--- I have not seen this single poll but am curious. I wonder what 'assault style rifles' are or how they were defined for the poll. I am also sure the NRA went around the country and gave all the sportsmen a good talking to.... 'Yo, you mention the whole assault weapon ban thing and we come back and burn your garage down'....
'When the NRA can destroy a man like Zumbo for making a single observation that is actually embraced by a majority of sportsmen, it's time for all genuine sportsmen and women to ask a few basic questions:'
--- Liars like to repeat the same lie over and over again. It comforts the sheep.
If the NRA's leaders can turn on a hunting legend like Zumbo simply for engaging in a reasonable and rational discussion of a growing issue, what can they do to you and me? Is this the type of organization sportsmen should look to for leadership? Is this the organization political candidates should cozy up to?
--- Again with the same lie. And what discussion? Zumbo called a bunch of people terrorists and called for a ban not a debate. If he called for a reasonable debate he probably would still have a job and some sponsors, and might have learned things the easy way. I don't see the NRA as leaders at all. They work towards similar goals but they owe me little and I give them little. And a politician will cozy up to a rattlesnake if he thinks it will garner him a single vote. That is on them.
I count eleven lies. No reference to the article. No reference to Zumbo activities since that day. We all know that the antis as a group are a bunch of liars. I will go ahead and lump him and his group in there with him.
feedthehogs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2003
- Messages
- 1,801
Does anyone have a link to a transcript or archived audio for when Zumbo was on gun talk?
Hunters Versus Shooters: An Unnatural Divide
This is beyond comical, it's dangerous. We have so many sportsmen/women who have no idea what they are saying (arguing), and they unwittingly endanger our very 2nd rights.
As I stood at Dunham purchasing my Mosin 91/30 and M-44, a gentleman and his wife walked in. He was looking at the Yugo SKS 59/66. The worker at the counter, while he owns one, knows precious little about them. As I detailed all of the SKS 59/66 rifle's specifications and potential uses, his wife walks over. He looks at his wife and asks, "Hey Hun, ya want me ta keep an assualt rifle in the house?"
The wife not even looking at him walks off, "Hell no! We don't need no damned assault rifles in the house. If you can't use it fer huntin' what the hell ya need it for? Now let's go!"
I stood there thinking to myself, the Constitution doesn't protect your right to hunt. That's why we, in Michigan, just lost our "right" to hunt dove. The antis put it on the ballot, and that hunt is now gone! Hunters themselves shot-it-down. Their motto was, "Real men don't hunt doves!" These hunters are going to loose their rifles eventually. Conversely, the Constitution does protect my rights to possess arms for defense, or just to bare period.
We need to find a way to educate these people who do not understand that there is factually no difference. RKBA is what it is. I wonder if we should begin a national campaign to hold public informational meetings? Open a discussion among hunters and shooters, with the purpose being to educate them about the latest styles of ARs and their enhanced capabilities.
This is beyond comical, it's dangerous. We have so many sportsmen/women who have no idea what they are saying (arguing), and they unwittingly endanger our very 2nd rights.
As I stood at Dunham purchasing my Mosin 91/30 and M-44, a gentleman and his wife walked in. He was looking at the Yugo SKS 59/66. The worker at the counter, while he owns one, knows precious little about them. As I detailed all of the SKS 59/66 rifle's specifications and potential uses, his wife walks over. He looks at his wife and asks, "Hey Hun, ya want me ta keep an assualt rifle in the house?"
The wife not even looking at him walks off, "Hell no! We don't need no damned assault rifles in the house. If you can't use it fer huntin' what the hell ya need it for? Now let's go!"
I stood there thinking to myself, the Constitution doesn't protect your right to hunt. That's why we, in Michigan, just lost our "right" to hunt dove. The antis put it on the ballot, and that hunt is now gone! Hunters themselves shot-it-down. Their motto was, "Real men don't hunt doves!" These hunters are going to loose their rifles eventually. Conversely, the Constitution does protect my rights to possess arms for defense, or just to bare period.
We need to find a way to educate these people who do not understand that there is factually no difference. RKBA is what it is. I wonder if we should begin a national campaign to hold public informational meetings? Open a discussion among hunters and shooters, with the purpose being to educate them about the latest styles of ARs and their enhanced capabilities.
For Zumbo to have said what he said today, is alienating to all gun users. He knows the times in which he lives. If he doesn't, then our representatives really do need to take note. Zumbo, like most of our reps had spent so long having guided hunts in places normal folks could never dream, getting free crap all the time and living a dream that he quit living in the real world. For him, everyday was much much different that it was for us.
I am sorry that Zumbo was "destroyed" but I don't feel that people should be entitled to my money if they see life differently. ESPECIALLY gun magazines and what not.
I am sorry that Zumbo was "destroyed" but I don't feel that people should be entitled to my money if they see life differently. ESPECIALLY gun magazines and what not.
USMC - Retired
Member
It's been said before but bears repeating: Whenever we see these types of attacks it is just another example of the old "divide and concur" strategy. They want nothing more than to pit the hunters against the target shooters and the target shooters against the CCW folks and them against the hunters and so on. Heck, they even try to pit traditional black powder shooters against in-line shooters! The old saying "we must all hang together or we shall certainly hang separately" could never be more true. I'm like a lot of the folks here in that I love to do it all. From black powder to black rifles and bow hunting to high power match shooting there is hardly a weekend that goes by that you won't find be with some implement to send a projectile down range in my hands and hardly a day goes by when I'm not somewhere in town taking care of daily business with a means to defend myself close at hand. Unfortunately, folks like us are the exception not the rule. Too many shooters are focused on the one kind of shooting they do and are only concerned when that sport is threatened directly. It's up to us to spread the word, get folks involved, bang the drum and beat the bushes. Take some time to search out these folks and show them the light. Get involved, Join every gun rights group you can, get others to join, don't take no for an answer! We can't do anything to change the minds of the anti-gun crowd but we can make an effort to educate our own and those that have not made up their minds yet! Most importantly don't bite at the bait these folks throw to cut one fish at a time out of the school.
MD_Willington
Member
I find this quite true, when I was handing out flyers that detailed HR1022, a few of them said, "well this can't be right, scoped rifles, old shotguns..."
I had to explain:
"yes your model 70 with a scope is the equivalent to a military sniper rifle"...
"yes an old beat up Ithaca model 37 is the equivalent to a WWI trench sweeper"...
Some just said, "can't be true", some said, "well I've never been interested in those", pointing at AK & AR pattern rifles.
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