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Real world plinking 25 yard 22LR ammo comparison with hot barrel (Ruger 10/22 Collector #3 break in)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by LiveLife, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Great post and report. I like the gun. I have never heard of that version. Did you shoot it any with the open sights? I am more interested in a gun like this for open sight shooting. When shooting for groups did you just aim at the paper and fire one shot and use the bullet hole for the rest of the group? I have done that many times instead of using a target dot. But a target dot lets you see if you are drifting or pulling when shooting and seems to keep you more focused on a particular aiming spot.
     
  2. GE-Mini-Gun

    GE-Mini-Gun Member

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    As mentioned, to me it’s interesting that the newer guns do not seem to be as “hardy” as the older models…the newer ones have the plastic trigger guard/trigger housing (if I remember correctly), mine is all metal. The barrels seems to fit tighter into the receiver as well…at least as I’ve noticed with the few current models I’ve installed parts on for friends. Same thing with the Mark I series pistols, the older ones seem to run better than current models and this is coming from a guy that has a MKIV 22/45.
     
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  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    This is 10/22 Collector #3 the "Man's Best Friend" newest edition in OD Green and comes with ghost ring rear sight, front sight wing protectors, modular stock with longer length of pull better suited for adult shooters, factory picatinny rail scope mount, "Collector's Series" engraved on the bolt, metal "Man's Best Friend" plaque and $25 gift certificate. It is still sold by PSA for $199 - https://palmettostatearmory.com/rug...nd-collector-series-rifle-od-green-31115.html

    Yes. The factory ghost ring rear sight on the picatinny rail scope mount comes all the way back for longer sight radius and I like it better than the regular blade rear sight.

    I have several scopes and those with mil dots, I initially referenced the dots for my aim point but after scopes were zeroed, I often used the first shot as my reference aim point if shot was centered on the cross hair. I could use 6-8 dots on target in future testing.

    Goal of this thread was to chronicle what a typical new production 10/22 will shoot various cheap bulk ammunition at plinking distance as trigger broke in under "real world" condition of minimal cleaning and lubing.

    10/22 is left stock other than plastic shim (which many could make readily at no cost) to free float the barrel with dry patching of bore to better reflect "real world" break in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  4. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    I think you reached your goal. Sounds like the new 10-22 is just what the old 10-22s were. A good field use gun. They do all I ever wanted from a hunting/survival type of gun. If I am after more accuracy I have a 77/22 made around 1986 IIRC that will shoot 10 shot groups under an inch for as long as you want to shoot them. Most groups are 5/8s to 3/4s inch with cheap Federal Blue Box ammo bought from WM. Then there is the Marlin model 39A that shoots like a target rifle to go along with the 77/22. But my stainless steel 10-22 in black plastic stock probably gets shot the most.
     
  5. Picher

    Picher Member

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    Without boring people with my 10-22 accurizing methods, one of the first things to do with a 10-22 is to shim the barrel/receiver joint to make a better connection and use Loctite Stud and Bearing Mount liquid on the barrel, receiver, and shim to eliminate all movement there. Upward pressure at the forend and epoxy pads at front and rear of the receiver improve accuracy also.
     
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  6. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Go ahead and bore me. I would love to hear what you are doing especially if you have pictures to go with it. Or better yet start a thread on 10-22 accurizing. I would like to hear more on the Loctite Stud liquid on the barrel/receiver joint.
     
  7. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I meant for this thread to be "real world" plinker leaving the 10/22 essentially factory with only minor work like a plastic shim that can easily be made from scrap plastic laying around the house (I am using plastic packaging that came with Home Depot ratchet tie downs). I had thought about doing a trigger job for this 10/22 but in the spirit of "real world" plinking, I decided to leave the factory trigger alone to chronicle factory trigger accuracy.

    This really is for "real world" practical plinking accuracy using cheapest bulk ammo available. Of course, sky is the limit for modifying and accurizing the 10/22 and this is not that thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  8. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Barrel shim part 2:

    In range test #6 when I saw vertical elongation of 50 yard Aguila group, I started pondering what could have caused the vertical stringing.

    Then when I got ready to disassemble the 10/22 for second cleaning, I noticed something I missed previously. When I initially applied the 0.85" by 1.00" shim, I essentially raised the barrel and receiver just below the V block, thus making a seesaw. When I applied some pressure up and down on the barrel, I felt slight movement at the back of the receiver. Hmmmm ... I need to eliminate this play.

    If you recall from range test #6, I had slight barrel contact with left inside of stock. I also need to address this as well.

    So I cut the shim right behind the Take Down bolt hole and applied a cardboard shim (cut from Federal ammo box) on top. My intent is to create a very narrow triangle from V block to back of receiver (where it contacts the stock) when I tighten the Take Down bolt. Here's the cut shim and cardboard piece on top (BTW, plastic shim is 0.070" thick and cardboard shim is 0.030" thick).

    [​IMG]

    Cutting the shim off behind the Take Down bolt and adding a cardboard shim definitely removed the play at the back of the receiver. It also raised the barrel enough that a strip of copy paper now moved freely around the barrel. To test results of these changes, I did not do any cleaning/lubing and proceeded to range test #7 for 25/50 yard testing.

    If this produces better groups, I will fabricate a more permanent stepped/angled shim.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Range Test #7 - 25 / 50 yard testing with "elevated" plastic shim (Round count around 2460):

    = See Post #33 for why/how the barrel shim was modified =

    For range test #7, Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match and Winchester 36 gr LRN XPert were added. Also, NEW Federal 36 gr CPHP Walmart 550 round red box on the right (Lot # 16A092) was added in addition to OLD Walmart 550 round red box on the left (Lot # 14E011).

    [​IMG]
    NOTE: For range test #7, I used both dots and circles and found once you shoot the dot out, you are essentially hovering the cross hair in the hole. :D So using circles as aim point was more practical. ;)

    [​IMG]

    Left target (25 yard testing):
    • I used NEW Federal 36 gr CPHP Walmart 550 round red box to warm up the barrel (Don't ask me why I started shooting with top right :D). First group shot high so I made adjustment to the scope. Initial shots went into a single hole and 5 shot group would have produced slightly larger than 1/2" group. Maybe the elevated shim is working to hold the back of receiver tight.
    • #2 - Group was lowered but still need more adjustment on the scope. Like group #1, formation of tight 5 shot group but subsequent shots opened up the group.
    • #3 - Fairly small group compared to OLD Walmart red box. Need a little bit more adjustment to the scope.
    • #4 - POI essentially at POA and I am happy with the tight group as barrel warmed up.
    • #5 - Of course, just as I was celebrating the tight #4 group, I get vertically elongated group next (Price we pay for bulk "loose" packs)
    • #6 - Very tight group with 2 holes to the right. Nice.
    • #7 - Still happy with the group
    Right target (25 yard testing):
    • OLD Federal 36 gr CPHP Walmart 550 round red box - Two groups were shot with fairly tight group size (compared to shim #1).
    • New Federal 36 gr CPHP Walmart 550 round red box - #1 group size was tight but #2 group size opened up. Likely the random mix of rounds I picked out of the box. Yeah, loose bulk ammo ... :D
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - I decided to shoot this ammo as a confirming group after getting larger NEW Federal group. Better than expected, tight group on par with CCI SV 40 gr LRN with single hole to the left.
    • Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match - As anticipated, initial shots were going into single hole but subsequent shots opened up the group
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Confirming group produced very small group size with one hole to the right.
    • Winchester 36 gr LRN XPert - I was surprised to see this group size as I just about gave up on Winchester 40 gr CPRN M22/Winchester 36 gr CPHP ammo. For range test #8, I could test them again to see how they do.

    [​IMG]

    50 yard testing:
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Produced a very respectable group. I noticed the cross hair move a bit with each heartbeat and I was "trying" to shoot between heartbeats. :D
    • Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match - Started with a nice group but subsequent shots opened up the group size
    • Federal 38 gr CPHP 275 round Field Pack - As initial shots hit high, I remembered from previous range tests that 38 gr CPHP Field Pack hit high. Few clicks on the scope and started shooting another 10 round group. I am quite happy with the group size.
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Confirming 50 yard group #1
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Confirming 50 yard group #2
    • Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match - To my surprise, group opened up. Perhaps it's time to inspect the bore and do a cleaning if needed.

    Summary (Round count around 2700)
    :

    I think there is definitely something to elevated and shortened shim for reducing movement of the rear of the receiver and I will be fabricating a better shim. For range test #8, I will do a second cleaning/lubing along with inspection of the bore. If I can get small enough groups at 50 yards, I will do a 75 yard testing.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  10. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Good idea. I asked because on your earlier pictures I didn't see any particular aiming point.
     
  11. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    That is just AM-22. They are like Crackerjacks, except the surprise in the box is the number of subsonic shots. It's one of the few ammos that can shoot .4's or 1.5+", depending on which cartridges are pulled from the box. Dented bullets and uneven drive bands can easily account for those windage flyers.
     
  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I am seeing this general trend between loosely packed 275/325/525/550/555 bulk boxes vs 50 round boxes that better protect the rounds.

    However, what surprised me was tight groups Thunderbolt produced consistently even though it is loosely bulk packed.

    BTW, smallest groups are currently produced by CCI SV LRN, CCI Blazer LRN, Aguila LRN, Aguila CPRN, Armscor CPHP which are all 50 round boxes. (What's odd is the Federal Champion LRN which is 50 round boxed that really has not produced good accuracy for me)
     
  13. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    im just going to say thanks for doing this instead of liking everything......Ive got a few thousand of those armscore and they shoot 1.5" or so @ 50yds from my 3 .22s. Surprisingly good actually.
    The other ammo thats worked well in all of my guns (of what you dont have listed, i still like cci sv and blazers) is the federal hunter match.
     
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  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    You are very welcome.

    Yes, the purpose of this thread was to showcase the "real world" groups using the cheapest available bulk ammo (and increasing number of more premium ammo for comparison) as the factory 10/22 broke in while documenting EVERY GROUP shot, not just the smallest groups.

    I am hoping to report realistic comparison among different brand ammunition while showing the effects of changes made like free floating the barrel.

    :D:D:D

    I was quite dismayed by the initial groups I got with Federal 36 gr CPHP and other 22LR ammo I have quite a bit of on hand that I stocked up.

    But I am happy to report that by Range Test #7, I am getting consistent enough groups that I am enjoying plinking with these ammo as I only need minute-of-soda cans at plinking distances of 15-30 yards and minute-of-2 Liter bottles at 40 to 50 yards.

    I plan to modify the barrel shim a bit more / secure the back of the receiver to see how small I could reduce the group size.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  15. Pat Riot
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    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    LiveLife, I would also like to thank you for the work and effort you are putting into this.

    I find it interesting that the ammo you are having better results with is the same ammo that my new S&W 63 and my old 10/22 does really well with. I have to admit I never expected Aguila to outshine pretty much all other ammo in all of my .22 firearms, except for CCI SV.. My standby for best groups always seems to be CCI Standard Velocity.
    I guess blue collar guns like blue collar ammo. I have never had much luck with Eley or Federal Gold Medal ammunition in regards to accuracy.

    Thank you again.
     
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  16. Picher

    Picher Member

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    The 10-22 has only one action screw, so significant forend upward pressure and shims to stabilize the sides of the action are necessary for good accuracy. (I understand that you don't want to do a complete accurizing job for whatever reason; however, do you have accuracy goals for 50 yard shooting?)
     
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  17. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    The original intent of this thread was to keep the 10/22 essentially stock and only make modifications/changes that are easy to do and low cost for "average" 10/22 shooter for more "real world" display of accuracy.

    I also wanted to illustrate the change in accuracy as the factory trigger broke in and smoothed out and why I am posting round count with each range test (2700 rounds so far and there's a point of diminishing return as rifling continues to wear ... another real world issue and we'll discuss barrel replacement when that happens).

    I figured using free scrap plastic packaging to free float the barrel was something feasible/doable for the "average" 10/22 shooter and next want to address better securing the back of the receiver to see if group size decreases.

    And the reason for me posting all 10 shot groups (And not occasional smallest groups) is to show accuracy trend of cheapest bulk ammo as 10/22 breaks in and minimally modified. So I am interested in what the worst shooting ammo does just as best shooting ammo.

    As I already posted, once most consistently accurate ammo is identified, I will do some "smallest" group shooting at 50 and maybe 75/100 yards. Accuracy goal? I will be happy if I get close to 1/2" at 50 yards but I will let "real world" dictate what happens on target.
     
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  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Range Test #8 - 50 yard testing with taped receiver (Round count around 2700):

    For range test #8, temporary cardboard piece on top of the shim from range test #7 was replaced with another piece of plastic held with electrical tape. To tighten the play at the back of the receiver, electrical tape was applied at the back. It was a snug fit, but with proper alignment, dropped right in with a little encouragement.

    Barrel was cleaned with Hoppes #9 solvent and slight gunk build up at muzzle crown was cleared and dry patches pushed through. Bore was clean without any leading (This barrel has yet to see a bore brush)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Left target (50 yard testing):
    • Federal 40 gr CPHP Walmart 550 round bulk red box - Groups, rather shotgun patterns were all over the place with flyers. Hmmmmm ...
    Right target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - 10 round groups were more encouraging. 5 round groups were shot from the same magazine so combine them for 10 round group.

    [​IMG]

    Left target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Surprising groups.
    Right target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Then the groups opened up
    • Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match - Not too bad group
    • Remington 40 gr LRN Thunderbolt - Definitely higher velocity pop

    [​IMG]

    I wanted to try something and removed the second piece of plastic on top of the shim.

    Left target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Just with the shim and electrical tape over back of receiver produced very small clusters.
    Right target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Then the groups opened up

    [​IMG]

    Left target (50 yard testing):
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Some promising groups
    Right target (50 yard testing) - Decided to finish up the shooting session with 10 shot groups to include Auto Match and Thunderbolt:
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Both groups started out tight then groups opened up
    • Federal 40 gr LRN Auto Match - Second group is the smallest I have gotten with Auto Match so far at 50 yards
    • Remington 40 gr LRN Thunderbolt - Second group is the smallest I have gotten with Thunderbolt with flyer at 2 o'clock

    In hindsight, I should have shot some confirming groups with Federal 36 gr CPHP Walmart 550 in the middle and at the end of the range session. Oh well, next time.

    Well, I guess depending on which rounds you happened to grab out of the loose bulk boxes, for range test #8, Auto Match and Thunderbolt produced the smallest 50 yard 10 round groups with Aguila producing some promising small groups. Of course, they are the "smallest" groups I got for this range test but since this is a "real world" testing, I am posting all the groups shot.

    Summary (Round count around 2960)
    :

    I may modify the shim for range test #9 but will definitely keep the electrical tape on the back of the receiver. I am happy about 50 yard Auto Match 1" 10 round group and Thunderbolt sub 1" 9 round group with one flyer.

    So far, I am encouraged with the progress made with this essentially stock 10/22 (Bought for 25-50 yard plinking with minute of soda can) and look forward to further testing with higher end ammo in upcoming range tests. And I am happy to report that during the 2960 round testing, with the exception of occasional Winchester M22 misfires, all the other brand/model ammunition tested reliably fired including the dreaded Thunderbolt. :D

    And the barrel only cleaned with Hoppes #9 solvent 3 times with dry patches (Actually Kleenex Viva paper towel) WITHOUT bore brush remains shiny clean without any leading.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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