Reality Check: The very politically incorrect truth about the Second Amendment

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The British were armed for the most party w/ muskets. The militia was armed mostly w/rifles! A better weapon than the musket! That would lead us to believe that the founding father's wanted the militia to have weapons better than our foes! Just a thought!
 
The British were armed for the most part w/ muskets. The militia was armed mostly w/rifles! A better weapon than the musket!

I hate to nitpick, but that's historically incorrect. Both sides were primarily armed with muskets; rifles were specialist weapons. The problem with rifles as weapons of general issue was that they took too long to load, and they weren't adapted for bayonets. The tactics of the day meant that a large volume of fire at close range was paramount. If that didn't settle the issue, a bayonet charge did.
 
The European armies knew all about rifling. It was viewed to be a net hinderance than an advantage for the traditional method of waging war at the time.
 
In the opening phase of the revolution, most militia were armed w/rifles. Later as they captured muskets &received training they did use muskets. The rifle was a hunting tool, a musket didn't have the range or accuracy for the farmers that became militia at the beginning. I hope we are not reduced to hunting Firearms. Let us hope that reason will prevail & we keep our rights. The militia has been given a bad reputation by the government &crazy people that claim to be militia to cover their insane crimes & plots. They are law's that cover the illegal things they do. Leagle Militia help by being volunteers in the community. Most have not been taught to see it that way. But we are shown a different side. We need to show the truth about them & show them in a positive way. JMO
 
Gun confiscation=instant revolution. Sorry, but to say you are going to confiscate guns will end this country as we know it and throw us into some crazy turmoil. These politicians seem to act without thinking all of the time. To even bring that up is a huge mistake on their part. I am sorry but that is just not something to discuss.



Yes, I believe they would. They had the technology of their time equal to that of their foe. So, yes I believe they would and I believe that is truly what the 2nd amendment was intended for.
I have hoped the same thing... that a situation like that would cause a revolution but with what i have to look at surrounding me at stores, schools, colleges, events, and on and on it seems unlikely with the track record of gun usurpation, and other usurpations, that have taken place. Basic case in point, sadly people are content with being slaves, people like us would most likely not stand for something like that but this is why educating the people is important! A stand cannot be taken with a few people scattered across the country. As I have said I pray that people would gain a care and consciousness about all God given rights and I do my best to educate people on the matters at hand but we are in a bad way in this country as far as our founding fathers wanted, so in reality if most of these people do not care where we are as a country today, what would a gun confiscation tomarrow do for them. Even some people that are armed unfortunatly are not willing to die for their God given rights, we as responsible gun owners have a lot of work to do to wake the population of this country up.
 
Originally Posted by SilentStalker
Gun confiscation=instant revolution. Sorry, but to say you are going to confiscate guns will end this country as we know it and throw us into some crazy turmoil.

I have hoped the same thing... that a situation like that would cause a revolution but with what i have to look at surrounding me at stores, schools, colleges, events, and on and on it seems unlikely ... Basic case in point, sadly people are content with being slaves

First off, this thread is over a year old and much to Yeager's dismay, no revolution has taken place :rolleyes:

This is a minor pet peeve of mine, but I think a lot of people who say its time for a revolution have no idea what a civil war would actually entail.

First off, a lot of people just shoot as a hobby. If the government made the possession of golf clubs illegal, would you start killing people? Like it or not, that's how a lot of people see guns - something fun to spend money on, but not worth their life to keep a few around. Of course guns are a bit different in that they can be used for protection, so I would expect some people to keep a pistol hidden on the off chance that they need it, but those people aren't gonna fight, they're gonna keep their heads down and not draw attention to the fact that they're breaking the law.

Now let's take a look at what a modern civil war would look like in the US. Your target is not someone who looks strange, lives thousands of miles away, speaks a different language, and has a different culture. Your target is the guy down the street who is exactly like you. He has a wife, two kids, and one of those annoying little dogs that his wife wanted him to get. He has a mortgage on a nice house, a few cars to pay off, and a list of credit card bills from buying his daughter a doll house for Christmas. And you're gonna put a bomb underneath his car because he happens to work for a guy that gives him a badge and tells him to protect society.

To get funding, you'll be working with regular criminals (likely drug dealers because of the profit margins), and to get weapons you'll be working with other smugglers and gun runners (like biker gangs). You won't be working with your local FFL who you've known for years. Once all your "law abiding gun owners" see this, they probably are not going to want a part in the revolution. By fighting in a modern civil war, you would be a terrorist by every meaning of the word.

That's what a modern civil war would look like, not the romanticized idea of coming home a hero to your family after a week of fighting a hundred miles away. And thats also why people dont like to talk about how the second anendment was created to enable another revolution - because a modern civil war would be so horrible that people don't want to contemplate even the possibility of it happening.

For a real civil war to not only begin, but be sustainable, murdering your neighbor has to look like a better option than the status quo for a sizable portion of the population. That's not gonna happen in the US unless a lot of things go to hell.
 
We do not ever want to be faced with the need for a revolution in this country. It would be ugly as sin and would require an immense amount of pain and suffering. A separating of the Wheat from the Chaff as I have heard it told.

A revolution today would not be fighting in the streets. It would not be rolling guns battles. It would not be Syria. Our military is too advanced and to assume the bulk of it would be on our side folly. Sure we might get some deserters from the officers rank and a bunch of grunts but the chances of getting what we would really need would be little if not almost non-existent.

On any given day there are a multitude of groups that think revolution would be a great idea and they range from White Racists Skin Neo-Nazi types, to raving dangerous Progressives and Communists. It wouldn't be the good guys versus the bad guys. It would be the Tyrants versus the wanna-be Tyrants versus the Communists wanting to be tyrants versus the racists wanting to be tyrants, versus the religious right wanting to be tyrants, versus the Classic Republic types versus the revolutionaries of all different makeups, etc. etc. etc. etc..

It'd be bad and most folks aren't willing to give up there easy lives (even poor ones) to start a fight that would take possibly decades to resolve that would shut down our medical care system (little to no anti-biotics, no treatments for the seriously ill), risk mass starvation, mass homelessness, the destruction of entire cities as they burn from arson and neglect. And then we would have to hope that foreign powers wouldn't get involved in the middle of it. Not to mention that our boys in the Nuke Silos and subs would hopefully not push the red button at a tyrant's command.

I mean I'm cool with all of this. I'm a SOB of the ugliest character so it wouldn't bother me all that much. I have my kin and means to have a good shot at getting through it all but best believe it would be hell on earth if we had another revolution. Best believe it would come down to those being prepared to do evil having a better chance at victory than everyone else. And to get it all rolling right you would have to bring about the collapse of our economy first where folks reverted back to precious metals and barter to get things thus eliminating the power (in part) of the 1% and reducing the utility (if not eliminating) of welfare so the poor disenfranchised masses would have no choice but to loot and murder to feed themselves and their families.

If we got lucky, we'd only have to reduce the populations of New York City, D.C., Maryland, Massachusetts, Los Angeles, Hollywood, New Jersey, and Washington to get things back on track the right way. But rarely does one ever get lucky in war i.e. Korea, the American Civil War, Germany's Invasion of Russia during WWII, Vietnam, etc. etc. etc..

And while were at it let's just invade Mexico and annex them (giving all their people improved minimum wage, 2nd Amendment rights, and eliminating the Narcos) so we put to rest all those headaches.
 
I agree with the OP that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to give the citizenry the means to resist a tyrannical government, by enshrining their right to arms equal to those of any standing army, but unfortunately, the Supreme Court doesn't agree with this interpretation. Justice Scalia, writing the majority opinion in the Heller case, treated the Militia Clause as a mere nullity (excess verbiage) that had no effect on the substance of the Amendment. To him, the Amendment came down to personal self-protection, and arms that went beyond that (for example, machine guns) could be prohibited as a "reasonable" exercise of governmental power.

Taking that in the third person, not necessarily the poster espousing it:

The view that the Supreme Court has the only power to "interpret" the Constitution is false. Congress can simply pass another law - which has led us to the present situation.

Since the Court bases much of their decision making on a "case law" viewpoint, the more laws that restrict our rights, the more "right" they see in doing so.

Let's not forget that the Court justified segregation and slavery for many decades. Were they absolutely right in those decisions? No. A court composed of Constitutionalist judges can and has reversed erroneous views of the law and corrected wrongs their predecessors inflicted on us.

Lawmakers and judges can, have, and will make bad decisions. The people can, have, and will support them doing it. Once the population is informed to the point that they see things need to be changed, and desire it, then they can make those changes. That doesn't always come peacefully. In American history, the case could be made that those who were actually right had to literally fight and overcome with the tools of war to enforce it. Those in the wrong refused to relinquish their power and oppression.

It's how the nation was first formed, and how we kept it one Union. The record is clear.

If we want to talk about having the 2A to protect our rights against a tyrannical government, then it follows that there will be some who can and will take direct action to protect them.

In today's political climate, it's considered problematic, even dangerous to suggest. That's why we don't see much conversation about it. Nobody wants to be the lightning rod for a very powerful opposition's response. At the very least, the general public will quickly view that person as some kind of patriot kook. At worst, the BATF will arrest you, seize your arsenal, and you find yourself rendered as a terrorist without benefit of rights or counsel. Nobody knows you are missing, and your family is hindered at every opportunity to speak out about it.

Be careful what we suggest is the proper interpretation. No sense being a martyr, unless that is something your survivor's can exploit to advantage.
 
I think the likelihood of outright revolution in this country is very slim even if draconian gun laws are passed. I base this on the following: If you can't even get 40% of the population out to vote, what makes you think they will take to the streets?
 
Telekinesis said:
...I think a lot of people who say its time for a revolution have no idea what a civil war would actually entail....
And anyone you imagines that a revolution would be a way to improve things has not learned the lessons of history and is indulging in wild fantasy.

Just remember that historically revolution as a mechanism for fostering freedom has a really lousy track record.

To illustrate that we of course have the French Revolution. We also have the Paris Commune of 1870. How about the Russian Revolution? The Chinese Revolution that gave us Mao, perhaps? How about the ouster of Basitsa in Cuba? Pol Pot in Cambodia? Anyone know what's happening in what used to be Burma? And let's not forget Iran. I'm not sure that things are all that swell in Egypt or Libya these days. Then there have been the various revolutions, often protracted, taking place with dismaying regularity in one third world country or another. The vast majority of revolutions wind up simply replacing one despot with another.

The American Revolution was unique. At the time of the Revolution each Colony was substantially self governing, at least with regard to internal matters. Each Colony had its own well developed administrative and governmental infrastructures. Many of the leaders of the Revolution were already active in local, political affairs.

At the same time, our Revolution wasn't as much a revolution as it was ejecting an occupying force. Once the British were displaced, we were able to build on a solid foundation of already existing and functional public institutions. And to a large extent the folks who were running local affairs before the Revolution continued to do so after.

Basically, the system wasn't torn down. The then existing system continued under new management. The once colonies continued as they had, just without oversight by the Crown; and through political process they agreed to loosely join together under the Articles of Confederation.

When the Articles of Confederation proved unworkable, they were replaced byt the Constitution. That replacement was accomplished by political process, not by revolution.
 
Point is that the original intent of the 2A was to protect ourselves from a Tyrannic Government that could potentially become corrupt and turn on its own people. We do not hear much discussion about this reasoning which IMO counterproductive.

Unfortunately the language isn't clear what the intent was. The SCOTUS has tried to define the intent which is their job but in my opinion they have failed. They pretty much have limited it to one's right to defend themselves with a hand gun in their home and that's where it ends. Also they have left it so states can control most other aspects of firearm ownership so they don't have to take the heat. Your scenario seems more likely given the situation at the time and later writings by those who drafted the document. So if they were honest they would just come out and say it's intent was for a defense against your own government and you can have an M16 to do it because we want a level playing field and we know your gov't is going to use one if you try to overthrow it. Everyone is going to say SCOTUS supports revolutionary activists but in reality that's what happened in the colonies in the 1700's. A bunch of people who were tired of their gov't replaced it. So 2A can't really help you if you look at the most likely intent. Using the 2nd A as a defense for having an M16 probably is in line with the true intent of the 2A writing but the SCOTUS isn't going to back you up on that. If the SCOTUS isn't going to admit that's what it means the document isn't worth much more than the paper it's written on.
 
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