Really Poor Man's Brass Tumbler
- Thread starter therealsteamer
- Start date
- Status
Cloudpeak
Member
Thanks for the thoughts on lead and dishwashers. As I said, I will be buying a tumbler. I did not know about the lead content of the primers. Something to think about for sure.
However, I still don't think there would be any residue left in a dishwasher. The MSDS's solution to contamination is to flush or wash with water. It doesn't say to wash your clothes and then throw them away. I know part of my attitude is living to be 58 years old and spending a lot of that time listening to people telling you what's bad for you. You tend to get jaded after awhile. A lot of things we were told were bad for us now have been found to have some value. Reading a MSDS sheet can be scarey. Why would anyone cast their own bullets after reading the MSDS? Does everyone who casts and handles cast bullets use the full compliment of safety gear? Does every reloader follow the letter of the law, so to speak, in regard to disposal of the fired primers?
Thanks, Cloudpeak
However, I still don't think there would be any residue left in a dishwasher. The MSDS's solution to contamination is to flush or wash with water. It doesn't say to wash your clothes and then throw them away. I know part of my attitude is living to be 58 years old and spending a lot of that time listening to people telling you what's bad for you. You tend to get jaded after awhile. A lot of things we were told were bad for us now have been found to have some value. Reading a MSDS sheet can be scarey. Why would anyone cast their own bullets after reading the MSDS? Does everyone who casts and handles cast bullets use the full compliment of safety gear? Does every reloader follow the letter of the law, so to speak, in regard to disposal of the fired primers?
Thanks, Cloudpeak
gwalchmai
Member
Like I said, elemental lead is much less easily absorbed than compounds, esp if you wash your hands after handling it. The MSDS is for lead styphnate.
cracked butt
Member
Casting bullets is not a big problem, nor are lead bullets without cladding or jackets. Its the priming residue left on the fired brass that is dangerous. You don't s*&t where you eat, so why put poisons where you eat?
I'm not one to make light of the dangers of lead poisoning...but
If what's left in the cartridge case is a residue of what's been fired, coming out of the barrel in a big puff of smokeless that's as likely as not to be blown back in your direction...
...and if what's left in the washing machine and it's clothes after a wash and two rinse cycles is diluted on the order of a million parts (a residue of a residue of a residue of a residue so to speak, if we want to count them up)
...then, to scale protection realistically, we ought to at the least wear high filtration face masks and dispose of our contaminated clothing every time we go to the range.
And this is nothing compared to my exposure to toxic gasoline exhaust and carcinogenous diesel detritus and my way to the range.
Not to mention to dangers in standing downwind of a smoker.
It's a dangerous world, I guess.
(Actually, I understand the industry is doing something about replacing lead-based primers with ones less toxic.)
If what's left in the cartridge case is a residue of what's been fired, coming out of the barrel in a big puff of smokeless that's as likely as not to be blown back in your direction...
...and if what's left in the washing machine and it's clothes after a wash and two rinse cycles is diluted on the order of a million parts (a residue of a residue of a residue of a residue so to speak, if we want to count them up)
...then, to scale protection realistically, we ought to at the least wear high filtration face masks and dispose of our contaminated clothing every time we go to the range.
And this is nothing compared to my exposure to toxic gasoline exhaust and carcinogenous diesel detritus and my way to the range.
Not to mention to dangers in standing downwind of a smoker.
It's a dangerous world, I guess.
(Actually, I understand the industry is doing something about replacing lead-based primers with ones less toxic.)
therealsteamer
Member
Wow!
Well,
this developed into more than I ever thought it would. Thanks for the input......................Steamer
Well,
this developed into more than I ever thought it would. Thanks for the input......................Steamer
The Bushmaster
Member
Let's get a grip people
I have a simple question...And it may seem like a stupid question (which I am famous for). But what are you people doing with those unfired and spent primers? Eating them? Just how much do you handle (fondle) them? I must admit that I rarely handle one myself. I read the MSDS and I don't understand what the problem is here. I, in my chosen field of employment (Oil spill recovery), do a lot of reading of MSDS and unless you are chewing on these primers or rubbing them all over your body, you have little to fear. As I said. I pick up the packet, dump them directly into the Auto Prime II dish, shake them a little to get them turned over, Mount them onto my press. When I punch the spent primers out they fall directly into a small bucket under the single stage press outside in the garage. Lead poisoning is the last thing that I would worry about unless you plan on getting shot some time soon. ...Let's not let paranoia run rampid here. This could cause another 9/11. Not to mention scare a lot of near paranoid people as it is. 
I have a simple question...And it may seem like a stupid question (which I am famous for). But what are you people doing with those unfired and spent primers? Eating them? Just how much do you handle (fondle) them? I must admit that I rarely handle one myself. I read the MSDS and I don't understand what the problem is here. I, in my chosen field of employment (Oil spill recovery), do a lot of reading of MSDS and unless you are chewing on these primers or rubbing them all over your body, you have little to fear. As I said. I pick up the packet, dump them directly into the Auto Prime II dish, shake them a little to get them turned over, Mount them onto my press. When I punch the spent primers out they fall directly into a small bucket under the single stage press outside in the garage. Lead poisoning is the last thing that I would worry about unless you plan on getting shot some time soon.
...Let's not let paranoia run rampid here. This could cause another 9/11. Not to mention scare a lot of near paranoid people as it is. gwalchmai
Member
Bushmaster, according to their posts, some of these guys are washing their brass in their washing machines and dishwashers (did you miss that?) Sure, the MSDS is scary, but why add more lead exposure than you have to, when it's so easy to avoid?
But I guess if someone wants to eat lead compounds it's none of my business.
But I guess if someone wants to eat lead compounds it's none of my business.
The Bushmaster
Member
Then gwalchmai...I ask you...Why are we reinventing the wheel. Vibrater and rotating tumblers are cheap as a grain of sand in Arizona. I realize that we or I will have a hell of a time conviencing these people who are trying to get themselves in trouble with their spouses by using their tools instead of buying a cheap case cleaner, and there are many and of good quality, like one that has been mentioned many times on this board. I AM sorry, but it just seems stupid to do so. It would probably be better for them to not clean their cases as others on here do( or do not). I know that I will hear that "I am not rich enough to afford a case cleaner" Well neither am I, but I have one never the less and it's a Lyman 1200 (18 years old) and it has never cost me a penny sense I got it. Just plug it in and forget. By the way...When I bought it they were never on sale like they are today and I paid $60 for it brand new.
Last edited:
You know, I kinda like the idea of a using a bucket with water and Simple Green to clean cases. I sounds even easier than using the washing machine.
But I can't help wondering about those guys who use tumblers. Wouldn't the media build up a toxic residue with each use? Seems to me the concentrated lead residue would be much worse than the rinsed and rinsed again residue left on a washing machine or dishwasher.
I did a little calculating, using pretty high allowances for residue. Since washing machines and dishwashers do get clothes and dishes clean, we've got to figure they don't act as filters to trap residue, and most of what is rinsed off goes down the drain. Still, using a ridiculously high 10% residue each time figure, I calculate that your clothes trap much less lead from cleaning 200 cases in a washing machine than they do when one round is fired against the wind on the range. I shudder to think how much lead particulate is stirred up each time you walk down to the target.
But I can't help wondering about those guys who use tumblers. Wouldn't the media build up a toxic residue with each use? Seems to me the concentrated lead residue would be much worse than the rinsed and rinsed again residue left on a washing machine or dishwasher.
I did a little calculating, using pretty high allowances for residue. Since washing machines and dishwashers do get clothes and dishes clean, we've got to figure they don't act as filters to trap residue, and most of what is rinsed off goes down the drain. Still, using a ridiculously high 10% residue each time figure, I calculate that your clothes trap much less lead from cleaning 200 cases in a washing machine than they do when one round is fired against the wind on the range. I shudder to think how much lead particulate is stirred up each time you walk down to the target.
The Bushmaster
Member
You will need a Tyvex suit, latex gloves, complete head gear with clear window and Tyvex boots. Or maybe a glass cage with highly filtered air supply. How about a plexigrass box with insertable gloves with all your equipment inside.
I am not saying that lead poisoning isn't bad. I just think we are getting a little carried away. I don't know of any hobby that doesn't have a little danger involved with it. Including stamp collecting. I play with an inharrently dangerous amimal and if I worried about the injuries that might occur I would not have had one hell of a 4 day weekend. Let's NOT get carried away here. O K??
I am not saying that lead poisoning isn't bad. I just think we are getting a little carried away. I don't know of any hobby that doesn't have a little danger involved with it. Including stamp collecting. I play with an inharrently dangerous amimal and if I worried about the injuries that might occur I would not have had one hell of a 4 day weekend. Let's NOT get carried away here. O K??
it really doesn't take much to get lead poisoning. im pretty new to reloading and the shooting sports and my lead lvl is 20.6 A friend of got tested with a lvl of 55. and another friend of mine has his lvl in the mid teens. now a lvl of 15-20 for an adult is not that bad. But for a child under 13 who's blood brain barrier is not completely developed this is REALLY bad. A little bit of lead affects children ALOT differently than adults. If you guys have kids the next time you take them to the doctor get thier blood tested.
Third_Rail
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2004
- Messages
- 4,979
This is my thinking as well. I wash my hands before eating after shooting, don't handle lead near food, eating areas, and whatnot. Seems to just be common sense for me.
gwalchmai
Member
I don't understand this worry about kids. I mean, like, can't you always just have more?
well as far as the primers go, there is a LOT of crud left there. I recently switched from a press that was very unreliable about getting the primers into the catch can to one that is basically 100%. They now drop into a bag attached to a catch tube. I KNEW primer residue was nasty stuff, but the ammount of gray-green fuzzy stuff coating the inside of that bag has me doing a serious clean up of the reloading area.
You go shoot 100 rounds outside, it's diffused into the air. Shoot it inside, and it's diffused into the MANY cubic feet of air being pushed through the range if you are smart. Reload at home and you deposit a relatively small ammount of crud for that 100 rounds. But you do it a LOT and it doesn't get diffused, it builds up.
Granted, shooting in a poorly ventilated indoor range is probably the worst thing you can do regarding lead poisoning and the shooting sports, but don't go eating off the floor around your relaoding bench, or more importantly near your case tumbler.
You go shoot 100 rounds outside, it's diffused into the air. Shoot it inside, and it's diffused into the MANY cubic feet of air being pushed through the range if you are smart. Reload at home and you deposit a relatively small ammount of crud for that 100 rounds. But you do it a LOT and it doesn't get diffused, it builds up.
Granted, shooting in a poorly ventilated indoor range is probably the worst thing you can do regarding lead poisoning and the shooting sports, but don't go eating off the floor around your relaoding bench, or more importantly near your case tumbler.
Where do you think the lead goes when you run your cases through a tumbler? It goes into the media. The media that is constantly shifting around under vibration. Do you honestly think that microscpotic particles of lead are going to STAY inside your tumbler under those conditions? No, they are going into the atmosphere around your tumbler ever time you open it, ready to be aspirated. I will keep lead going down the drain if i have a choice.
caz223
Member
Lead has a funny way of getting into the environment, and into your blood.
I did circuit board repairs for 5 years, basically soldering a minimum of 4 hours a day.
Add to that, I smoked a lot at the time.
Lead on hands, hands on cigarette, cigarette in mouth=lead in bloodstream.
Also, I shot a lot at the time, as well as reloaded.
You could see where I wouldn't want to increase my exposure by having lead in my drinking water, lead in my clothes, and lead on my tableware.
None of the techs that I worked next to seemed to think that lead was a laughing matter, either.
Handwashing seems to help a lot.
Lead takes a while to make it through barriers like skin, but it does eventually make it in.
Handwashing, esp before smoking, is highly recommended.
At least wear socks on your feet when reloading, and when you take a break or handle anything potentially containing hazardous materials, wash your hands, minimum.
Another thing to think about.
If you smoke, airborne particles (Like lead from running tumblers!) are attracted to the flame on the end of your cigarette.
A burning mass, even one that small, generates a static charge that attracts airborne particles to the end of the cigarette, right next to your face, and I wouldn't count on cigarette filters to minimize your risk.
Also, proven fact, that airborne particles can and will REMAIN airborne for 24 hours or more with NO air movement, and will definately collect on anything that generates static electricity, like your clothes, hair, socks, cigarettes, etc.
I did circuit board repairs for 5 years, basically soldering a minimum of 4 hours a day.
Add to that, I smoked a lot at the time.
Lead on hands, hands on cigarette, cigarette in mouth=lead in bloodstream.
Also, I shot a lot at the time, as well as reloaded.
You could see where I wouldn't want to increase my exposure by having lead in my drinking water, lead in my clothes, and lead on my tableware.
None of the techs that I worked next to seemed to think that lead was a laughing matter, either.
Handwashing seems to help a lot.
Lead takes a while to make it through barriers like skin, but it does eventually make it in.
Handwashing, esp before smoking, is highly recommended.
At least wear socks on your feet when reloading, and when you take a break or handle anything potentially containing hazardous materials, wash your hands, minimum.
Another thing to think about.
If you smoke, airborne particles (Like lead from running tumblers!) are attracted to the flame on the end of your cigarette.
A burning mass, even one that small, generates a static charge that attracts airborne particles to the end of the cigarette, right next to your face, and I wouldn't count on cigarette filters to minimize your risk.
Also, proven fact, that airborne particles can and will REMAIN airborne for 24 hours or more with NO air movement, and will definately collect on anything that generates static electricity, like your clothes, hair, socks, cigarettes, etc.
cracked butt
Member
I don't know what is so tough about common sense.
Tumblers- unload them outside or in your garage so the lead particles stay out of the house, better yet, do all of your tumbling in the garage or workshop, not in the house.
Washing machines, dishwashers- the idea of 'dilution is the solution to pollution' that some people are using requires that the pollutant be soluble.
Do you know for sure that lead priming compounds and residues are water soluble? Before I installed a water softener in my house, the dishwasher would leave a very fine film of mineral deposits on my dishes, these minerals were previously dissolved in the water. Who's to say that you won't have a very fine residue of lead on you dishes when you run the washers after a few hundred pieces of brass were run through.
Clothes- clothes in a washing machine soak up a lot of water- when you dry the clothes, where do you think the stuff that was previously dissolved in the water soaked into the clothes goes?
Yes we all take risks in life, but smart people don't take risks where the danger is much higher then the reward.
Tumblers- unload them outside or in your garage so the lead particles stay out of the house, better yet, do all of your tumbling in the garage or workshop, not in the house.
Washing machines, dishwashers- the idea of 'dilution is the solution to pollution' that some people are using requires that the pollutant be soluble.
Do you know for sure that lead priming compounds and residues are water soluble? Before I installed a water softener in my house, the dishwasher would leave a very fine film of mineral deposits on my dishes, these minerals were previously dissolved in the water. Who's to say that you won't have a very fine residue of lead on you dishes when you run the washers after a few hundred pieces of brass were run through.
Clothes- clothes in a washing machine soak up a lot of water- when you dry the clothes, where do you think the stuff that was previously dissolved in the water soaked into the clothes goes?
Yes we all take risks in life, but smart people don't take risks where the danger is much higher then the reward.
Having worked in a rubber and chemical Co. for 35 yrs. I worked around a lot stuff that was dangerous if not handled right and tend to be cautious about anything poisonous or considered a carcinogin. although I know lead is highly poisonous I really don't know the dangers of using houseghold appliances for brass so have no comment on that BUT even though my wife is very supportive of my shooting and reloading she would ???? a brick if she caught me using her clothes washer or drier(she's the dishwasher) for any of my reloading activities.
The Bushmaster
Member
And you want to live, don't you Bakert...Me too...
- Status
