Reason for short magazine tube

[andrewdl007]

I always liked the look of the winchester lever action rifles with the short magazine tubes. I always wondered why someone would choose those over the full length magazine tube. I guess most people weren't fighting off bandits with their rifles so they didn't need a whole lot of rounds, but why not get a rifle with the capability for extra rounds?

 

[TheHappyGunner]

With no basis for these theories, here are some of my thoughts:

1) To me, the short magazines seem more fit for hunting. A cut down mag tube means less weight, even if only a little. When lugging around a rifle that already weighs around 8 pounds, I would think any less weight would be ideal for a hunter!

2) Also for the purpose of hunting, it could be a round limit for sporting? I'm not sure of other hunting regulations nationwide, but here in PA a maximum of 5 cartridges can be in a long gun at any time for the purpose of hunting. For shotguns, it's three rounds. It's common here in PA to find a shotgun with a plug in its magazine limiting it only to a 3 round capacity, when it could otherwise hold 5 rounds. Maybe the short magazines (often referred to as button mags) serve the same "purpose" as the shotgun plugs.

Not sure of any other reasons that the button magazines were an option on many Winchesters. I like the look of them, but I love the look of a full length magazine tube

 

[Grunt]

I would suspect both for weight and balance issues.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Weight, balance, aesthetics, less magazine tube to get dented/damaged.

But for a combat weapon, speaking pretty much on shotguns hear, it is my firm belief that nothing less than a magazine as long as the barrel will do. Any benefits of better balance etc. for the short tube are not worth the decreased mag cap for a gun that holds so few round to begin with. JMHO.

 

[eastbank]

no shell limit in a big game rifle in pa.,must be manualy operated. i have several friends who use 8-10 shot magazines in remington 760-7600,s (i don,t know why). eastbank.

 

[VVelox]

I don't buy the weight/balance part given how light the additional tubing and spring are.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Maybe just a matter of preference...just like pistol grip versus straight butt stock.

 

[littlelefty]

It's to confuse simple minded folks like me with yet another choice.

Or, to say it in a more positive light, to give folks another option that may look nicer to them than the full length tube.

Those are just my thoughts, confirmed only by my own anecdotal information.

 

[Onmilo]

Let's take this rifle as a for instance.

It is chambered in .45/70, same as the 1873 Springfield Calvary carbine.
It is the same overall length as the Springfield Cavalry carbine.
It is about the same weight as a Springfield Cavalry carbine.
It balances and handles just as easily as a Springfield Cavalry carbine.
It can be reloaded just as quickly as a Springfield Cavalry carbine when loading as a single shot.
It holds five rounds, four in the magazine & one chambered, a 500% increase in onboard ammo over the combat proven Springfield Cavalry carbine.

I have owned full tube 1886 rifles and a carbine and compared to this rifle they really are unwieldy and unpleasant to carry.

If you have handled half mag or button magazine 1892 & 1894 rifles, they are even more true joy to carry and shoot.
These are hunting rifles, not combat arms and they hold plenty of ammunition for hunting purposes, actually the same five shots as almost all bolt action hunting rifles.
Did I mention the marvelous Savage Arms Model 99 five shot rotary magazine lever actions??

 

[shafter]

Back then people weren't caught up with the capacity issue. When hunting you really don't need more than five rounds anyway. I really like the looks of the old Winchesters with the short magazine tubes but for now I'll stick with my standard rifle and load the full 7 rounds.

 

[jmr40]

I don't buy the weight/balance part given how light the additional tubing and spring are.

Have you ever weighed a lever action rifle. Despite the legend they are the heaviest actions of any repeater rifle and can use all the help they can get to reduce weight and help with balance. All of my bolt rifles are lighter than my lever guns. Several are lighter with scopes and mounts on them than the Marlin 30-30's with no scope.

You not only have to deal with the extra weight of the longer mag tube, but 3-4 more rounds of ammo right at the end of the barrel will effect balance. It is less of a problem with barrels shorter than 20" and with pistol calibers, but will make a huge difference in big bores.

I really like the look and feel of the straight grip and half tube. A 336LTD in 35 Rem next to an 1894 in 44 mag

 

[Dave Bulla]

jmr40 already made my point. It's not the weight of the empty tube and spring, it's the weight of the ammo that is out there when it's fully loaded.

By the way, that is a BEAUTIFUL 336ltd you have there... and in my favorite caliber too.

Personally, I can't make any claim to being an expert either but I'm pretty big into Marlin lever actions and have everything from 22's to 45-70's and while they all have similarities, they have differences too in balance, handling etc. I can't talk about Winchesters lever guns much because I don't own one (can't afford most of 'em) but the reasons for any given lever gun design feature should be pretty much the same as Marlins.

It seems everyone is hot on the short barreled guns these days but personally I've always loved the long barreled ones. The old 93's with 26" or longer barrels (back in the days of the custom ordered rifles) just look and feel cool. I've never minded toting a long slender gun in the woods. I've absolutely hated carrying a certain stainless, laminated, scoped bolt gun with a bipod around because it felt like I was packing a boat anchor the whole time.

But back to mag tubes. In my mind, I'm sure that the differences in tube length are mainly due to customers who didn't need a rifle for battle, but one for hunting. These customers would have their own idea of what they wanted in a rifle and back in the day companies like Winchester and Marlin would build rifles to suit. The idea of customizing a rifle or "hot rodding" one are certainly nothing new and back in the day, gun makers would do a good bit of custom work. The customers would simply write a letter to the company stating what features they wanted and it would be built if possible. I don't know if the gun companies thought up the different features to entice hunters to buy guns or if the customers asked the companies to make a couple a certain way and somebody at the company had the good sense to realize that the feature asked for was a good one. Maybe even reason to offer a production model but it doesn't really matter who thought of it first. I expect ideas came from both sides. I'm sure there were plenty of people who were into the sporting side of shooting who wanted guns modified to change weight and balance characteristics of various guns.

The Marlins are a good example of factory variations that change how a gun handles. The RC or regular carbine is a carry over from the old west days when the full length mag tube was a desired thing because one never knew just when there might be a very real danger of a shootout with either bad guys or Indians. Once those days began to pass, or when customers didn't have the NEED to hold a bunch of rounds it was a natural thing to sacrifice capacity for carriability and pointability. I expect though that shooters then were not much different than shooters today. Some are of the spray and pray mentality and some are of the one shot one kill mentality. Gun makers by definition tend to cater to both sides and try to offer features that will keep everyone happy. The "SC" and "A" models both had short mag tubes. The name alone of the SC is a dead giveaway to the logic behind it since it stands for "sporting carbine" and is a great compact rifle with the standard 20" barrel but the shorter tube makes it handle/balance beautifully. The "A" is the rifle version of the "SC" and I have no idea where the "A" designation came from, (maybe they used it just because the R was already used?) but it has a 24" barrel and a short mag tube and was the "serious sportsmans" lever action rifle. Made for the discriminating hunter who takes his shooting seriously and doesn't feel the need for 7 or 8 rounds in a gun. Me being a guy who likes long barreled guns, I find this to be probably my favorite of the Marlins. It may not hold enough rounds to finish an indian fight but it's certainly got enough to finish a deer hunt. Plus they look good doing it!

 

[JohnBT]

And where the longer tube is attached and how it is attached and the weight of the extra rounds in it will affect the vibration of the barrel.

Think of all that stuff hanging under the barrel as a Rube Goldberg barrel tuner.

And each shot removed from the tube while firing changes the 'tuner' setting a bit.