Reason's why not to buy a DPMS?

[theflatlander]

No fighting in this thread. Just facts. So far dpms has my nod. Unless I call armalite and they can convince me with some BS lol. honestly I don't see the chrome lined barrel as a deal breaker. If I shoot it out I will just replace it.

 

[mastiffhound]

My only experience with DPMS is a friends rifle that although brand new was having fail to eject stovepipes. Couldn't figure it out. It had some other problems too, I just can't remember. With the popularity of the AR platform you can get a very nice (way better parts) Mil-spec (see The Chart) for the same price or lower than a DPMS. Namely Palmetto State Armory or Bravo Company. Marlin, Bushmaster and Remington have all had QC issues. DPMS is owned by the same company.

The reason for chrome-lining barrels in AR's isn't just for barrel longevity. It also helps with extraction and it also makes the barrel and chamber easier to clean. Those two reasons alone are the reason I will never buy an AR that doesn't have a chrome lined barrel.

Companies that are said to make inferior products by all most everyone have that reputation for a reason. The sword is double edged too. Many that say "DPMS is pure junk" might be trying to rationalize their higher cost AR. The other side is the "DPMS makes good, great, or perfect AR's" group that might be trying to justify their purchase of a lower end product. If you do the math all over the net (months or years of researching threads), most have said "don't buy DPMS products". Alot less people will say "yeah, buy a DPMS". Chances are you already suspect something isn't kosher, otherwise you wouldn't have asked.

 

[TIMC]

I have the DPMS LR308 AP4 and it is a very reliable and accurate rifle. I have had zero issues with the rifle. I don't know what bad anyone has had with them but I can say mine has been great!

 

[velocette]

I've had my DPMS LR 309B for about 5 years & about 1500 rds downrange. I feed it my handloads (IMR 4895 & Sierra 168 gr HPBT-M) with which is is comfortably sub moa. In the 5 years, it has never jammed, failed, broken, stopped or caused any problems at all. Except fighting off all the folks that wanted to shoot it.
I ordered it new from the factory with the free floated 18" Cryo barrel, JP trigger, & adjustable gas block. The only change has been installing a Magpul MOE handgrip.
Money well spent, money well invested. I would not change a thing on the original order except perhaps specify a Geissele trigger.

Roger

 

[SkyFreek60]

Though not .308, my dpms ap4 is chrome lined and has yet to have a failure of any kind with a lot of rapid fire and sustained fire using many types of ammo (including wolf & tula - known jammers) so i would have no trouble calling it a "battle rifle". I also built another using a DPMS mini-sass barrel and am happy. I built 2 PSA guns and they are great as well.... you can get a nice rifle at a good price with both of these companies. Realize for the .223 that most parts across many many companies come from just a few manufacturers. How that pans out for the .308 platform IDK but there is another forum online which would certainly cover the topic.

 

[theflatlander]

Mastiffhound,

Your correct I wouldn't be asking questions if something concerned me. Personally they feel junky in my own hands. Also I have never owned a AR .308 I have only shot them and the only one I shot was a DPMS. When charging the BCG it just seemed very gritty and the fit and finish was nothing great to look at either. This was the Remington R25 in .308.

I really dont even think I would of been looking in the DPMS direction if it wasn't the price, that you can find them any where, and parts are available all the time. I like the fact pmags are available for them now. But yet I still can't sell myself on a factory built DPMS. After everything I have read I should be convinced of the reliability but I am not.

Im still looking pretty hard at the Mega Maten receiver set. I can buy what I want through Armalite cheaper than it would be for my first build because I still have to buy tools. I just dont like that I have to use the 2nd gen Armalite mags and cant use the pmags on the model of gun I want. That and I am getting a full rifle with a warranty so it would hold some resale value. On top of that I have never built a AR before and I dont think I would mess it up but who knows. Lots of money for a investment on something your not sure will work when your done with it. Also I just dont see myself needing more than one AR10 and the tools to build after I am done with the first one.

 

[Robert101]

I can't contribute to the why DPMS is no good. My 20" barrelled TAC20 has been great, shoots 1 MOA all day and has never had a failure. Even at top hot loads the brass doesn't show any signs of over-pressure and the chambers stay pretty clean throughout my shooting sessions. The only major problem with the gun is that my two college girls want to shoot it all the time at the range. It is hard to get enough trigger time with them around. I'll be looking for a second one soon. To that end, I will probably want to install a 20" stainless fluted barrel. Nothing wrong with the chrome moly barrel but I just want a stainless one.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 308 LR type guns out there. I just don't see the need to spend more money on forgings. I do believe an upgraded trigger group is needed for the base DPMS.

 

[C-grunt]

C-grunt. Im not doubting what you are saying but what made the R25 so horrible?

Im not sure what the problem was. My uncle bought it a month before my trip out to his place and returned it to the store a week later. I know that it couldn't go more than a round or two without malfunctioning. The store owner sent it back to Remington and Remington replaced it, if I remember correctly.

 

[TIMC]

Well if you want a really nice AR in .308 that takes pmags then go here...
http://www.fd-defense.com/

I am waiting on mine, should be ready by the end of next month.

 

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

I understand. Its tough to cut the BS.

Fact is, the lower of an AR is the lowest stress part on the gun. You can make functioning lowers by sandwiching two pieces of derlin, or even out of a block of wood. It has been done. Total fact... Yet people will tell you an expensive forged lower is a wothwhile upgrade. I cant see how - especially when you consider how few manufacturors of lowers are out there; half a dozen maybe. Most brands of AR are just rifle assemblers, who outsource the actual production to a small handfull of foundrys.

Uppers are even more of a joke. There are even fewer makers of uppers than lowers. I cant help but laugh at the ranking lists for ARs because of this. They are all purchased from the same few foundrys as the next guys.

The only major difference is the internals - and thent its mostly in QC testing. More expensive parts undergo a regiment of magnetic testing. Having this done for you turns a $700 rifle into a $1000 rifle ... even though a spare parts kit is only $75. Talk about getting taken.

DPMS is just fine.

This deserves to be posted again. Well said, mr. trooper.

 

[Warp]

I understand. Its tough to cut the BS.

Fact is, the lower of an AR is the lowest stress part on the gun. You can make functioning lowers by sandwiching two pieces of derlin, or even out of a block of wood. It has been done. Total fact... Yet people will tell you an expensive forged lower is a wothwhile upgrade. I cant see how - especially when you consider how few manufacturors of lowers are out there; half a dozen maybe. Most brands of AR are just rifle assemblers, who outsource the actual production to a small handfull of foundrys.

Uppers are even more of a joke. There are even fewer makers of uppers than lowers. I cant help but laugh at the ranking lists for ARs because of this. They are all purchased from the same few foundrys as the next guys.

The only major difference is the internals - and thent its mostly in QC testing. More expensive parts undergo a regiment of magnetic testing. Having this done for you turns a $700 rifle into a $1000 rifle ... even though a spare parts kit is only $75. Talk about getting taken.

DPMS is just fine.

^ This is BS. ^

If you don't mind, I would like to see the rifles you are referring to when you say that a "regiment of magnetic testing" turns a $700 rifle into a $1,000 rifle. Please, please show the examples to support your claim.

 

[velocette]

Magnetic particle testing works well on ferrous metal parts, not so with aluminum and aluminum alloys. The preferred testing for aluminum and its alloys is and has been dye penetrant (DPT) testing. This testing will find surface cracks or anomalies, not anything below the surface on aluminum.
X ray testing can be used for subsurface anomalies as well as sonic testing.
Truth be told, the stresses on an upper receiver or a lower receiver are minimal in the AR design. Most of the stresses are contained in the barrel extension, barrel, bolt lugs, face and cam pin / hole.
Therefore the perceived quality of an upper or lower is primarily the accuracy of all the holes and machining of critical tolerance parts, not the material of its construction.

Roger

 

[KC&97TA]

I have a DPMS TAC-20 .308, it's never given me a single issue in it's function and it's sub moa accurate, I've shot it slightly beyond 1,000 Meters.

I don't hesitate to recommend DPMS especially in their larger AR platforms.