Rebirth of the 32s?

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The statement t"I'm not [using KE as a measure of effectiveness], but the .32 and .327 mags do seem to be equal to or greater than .38/.38+P, so the argument it's less effective is moot" doesn't make sense.

But they expand....., the best .32 Mag's that I know of are hitting at least .4", .
That is nowhere near the expanded diameter of any FBI-approved loads.

What does it matter what LEO orgs approve/disapprove of in terms of caliber?
Gives some idea of what might be considered minimal in terms of terminal ballistics.

I'm not going to carry a handgun that is considered submarginal by knowledgeable law enforcement organizations
 
32 Long in my computer desk drawer became mine after six well-placed shots failed to slow an attacker. The Magnum didn't exist then.

I have to hear this story. PM if you choose, but I've never read of such an incident even with .22lr mini auto and .25acp.
 
I have to hear this story. PM if you choose, but I've never read of such an incident even with .22lr mini auto and .25acp.
Come on! We see dash-cam and body-cam videos here of thugs continuing to endanger officers after taking six and eight 9mm rounds.

The .32 Regulation Police revolver was fired by a deputy sheriff, back when the fleeing felon rule was still in effect.

The badly shaken man traded it for my grandfather's old .41 Long Colt.
 
The statement t"I'm not [using KE as a measure of effectiveness], but the .32 and .327 mags do seem to be equal to or greater than .38/.38+P, so the argument it's less effective is moot" doesn't make sense.
Fine, throw it out then.

That is nowhere near the expanded diameter of any FBI-approved loads.
What's the minimum specified diameter or percentage of expansion that passes the FBI's criteria and the FBI approves of? If there is such a criteria, that is.

Gives some idea of what might be considered minimal in terms of terminal ballistics.

I'm not going to carry a handgun that is considered submarginal by knowledgeable law enforcement organizations
That's fine, I would tend to agree that LEO orgs that do these sorts of tests have insight into ballistics that makes their opinion worth considering, but when they've probably NEVER tested .32 Mag or .327 Mag or .45 Colt or a great many other handgun calibers your dismissive nature of non mainstream calibers isn't based much in fact or truth, is it?
 
What's the minimum specified diameter or percentage of expansion that passes the FBI's criteria and the FBI approves of? If there is such a criteria, that is.

Yes, there is such a criterion.

It is among the specifications listed here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ents-for-duty-ammunition-for-handguns.860792/

They were established for the FbI and for their "law enforcement partners".

A little research will tell you that they apply to cal .356 and up--they have approved various 9mm .38/.357, .40, and .45 loads.

They recommend 9mm.

A little more research will tell you that some of the approved 9mm loads fall slightly short of the expansion requirement, but excel in other parameters.

Does this help?
 
Come on! We see dash-cam and body-cam videos here of thugs continuing to endanger officers after taking six and eight 9mm rounds.

The .32 Regulation Police revolver was fired by a deputy sheriff, back when the fleeing felon rule was still in effect.

The badly shaken man traded it for my grandfather's old .41 Long Colt.

the difference is you said "well-placed" with respect to the .32 failing to even slow an attacker. the dash cams of six to eight 9mm rounds and a continuing threat were clearly not "well placed".
 
Gentlemen.......interesting back and forth. While looking for some data which was mentioned in this thread I came across some info elsewhere which discussed using Blackhorn in the .32 H&R Mag. Off to Sportsman's I go because that sounds like something I need to try myself in the Single Sixes.

Shockingly, this is what the Powder selection looked like 30 minutes ago at the local SW. They had everything from LilGun to H110. I'm flush with powder so I picked up the Blackhorn (at $39 kinda pricey for what it is) and on the way out the door noticed the Oct 2020 issue of Handloader with another solid, full-on article by B. Pearce on the .327 FM.
This time Brian used 12 various powders. 7 of which I have on hand.

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Reading the article now while sipping a shot waiting for the next reply on this thread.

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Didn’t GEM say some respected trainers do recommend 32 mag snubs for backup? 380 is approved for backup and 32 magnum seems to be similar in performance.
 
Yes, there is such a criterion.

It is among the specifications listed here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ents-for-duty-ammunition-for-handguns.860792/

They were established for the FbI and for their "law enforcement partners".

A little research will tell you that they apply to cal .356 and up--they have approved various 9mm .38/.357, .40, and .45 loads.

They recommend 9mm.

A little more research will tell you that some of the approved 9mm loads fall slightly short of the expansion requirement, but excel in other parameters.

Does this help?
Yes, it helps, thank you.

So, the requirements are 12-18" penetration, 1.5x bullet diameter expansion, high bullet weight retention, and "show uniform, repeatable penetration." That last bit has me confused because what constitutes uniform, repeatable penetration and what doesn't?

I'm looking at Lucky Gunner's ballistic test and I see .38's from a 2" barrel that reached the .53" expansion threshold, reached at least 12" deep, and where all 5 bullets fully expanded were HST Micro and Winchester Ranger +P and maybe Golden Saber +P.

On the .32 side, the Hornady Critical Defense in .32 Mag didn't meet the .46" expansion test, but no bullets failed to expand and it easily met the penetration minimum. If .06" of expansion is the sole reason for rejecting it, that's a very silly reason. I'll also not that the 100gr Speer in .327 met all the criteria and penetrated far better than any of the .38's did.

It's obvious that if .32 Mag and .327 had the same amount of offerings as .38 does, there would be more options that would perform similarly or better.
 
Shockingly, this is what the Powder selection looked like 30 minutes ago at the local SW.
Are you sure that they had that much powder? My Sportsman's has empty canisters on display, and you have to check the powder binder at the gun counter. Last I checked, the shelf full of empties looked just like yours, but the book showed almost no stock on hand.
 
Sistema, I picked up a few of them and they were all full. Almost bought the H110 but I'm solid on powder and left it for someone that might need it.
 
So, the requirements are 12-18" penetration, 1.5x bullet diameter expansion, high bullet weight retention, and "show uniform, repeatable penetration."
One more time, those apply to duty calibers--the expanded diameter become a criterion.. to my knowledge, they have neither tested nor approved the .32 Magnum.

That last bit has me confused because what constitutes uniform, repeatable penetration and what doesn't?
That's all defined very clearly in the specification.

I'm looking at Lucky Gunner's ballistic test and I see
Lucky Gunner tests are not performed using the media used by the FBI--the barriers differ. That doesn't mean that that the results are invalid, it just means that they would not be used for FBI approval.

The FBI training Academy at Quantico devised testing procedures that they believed reflected the most common law enforcement needs. The tests include windshield penetration before expansion in gel. I don't see that as a very important requirement for civilian self defense. Hornady Critical Defense loads don't meet FBI approval due to the barrier test results. In 9MM, they're okay by me for my civilian use.

I'll also not that the 100gr Speer in .327 met all the criteria and penetrated far better than any of the .38's did.
I don't know how closely the .327 would come to meeting FBI requirements.

Frankly, I have little doubt about the terminal ballistics of the round. My issue is with the sound pressure. It one of those rounds that I so not want to shoot indoors.
 
To me, the .32 really shines as an outdoorsman’s cartridge. It’s quiet, very accurate, low recoiling, and it’ll absolutely put critters down with more authority than a .22lr, while also being suitable for a coup de grace on trapped or wounded game, and being acceptable -not great- for bigger animals and two-legged threats.

If one’s going to carry a revolver principally for self-defense, I guess I can see why the .327 or .32 H&R might be appealing... one more round than a .38 or .357, and possibly less recoil (though I am not sure if this has been substantiated... and recoil is highly subjective and often conflated with muzzle blast, which certainly would not be lessened in .32 defensive loads), with roughly equivalent effectiveness in the hotter loads.

That being said, I’d choose the LCR in .38, both because .38 (also available in hotter loads) is nothing to sneeze at, and because it’s quieter, as Kleanbore has pointed out, but also because the Ruger LCR in .38 is several ounces lighter than its equivalent in .327, and that can make a big difference in terms of actually carrying it. And I can handle LCR .38 recoil just fine, making any recoil advantages of .32 defensive loads more theoretical than practical. I don’t want to shoot a .38 without ear protection in a defensive scenario, but I certainly don’t want to shoot a .357, and still less a .327! Of course, more than likely, I’d be carrying a semi-auto, which makes the capacity argument moot for me, personally. If I’m choosing a revolver it’s for reasons unrelated to capacity, and I’m hard-pressed to think of a scenario where 5 rounds would not be enough, but 6 would.
 
if you ever said a .22mag snub or .380acp mini gun was good enough for a BUG, then surely you have to say the same for even a .32 S&W Long snub.
 
If one’s going to carry a revolver principally for self-defense, I guess I can see why the .327 or .32 H&R might be appealing... one more round than a .38 or .357,....
that was true before the K6a and Cobra were introduced.

personally. If I’m choosing a revolver it’s for reasons unrelated to capacity, and I’m hard-pressed to think of a scenario where 5 rounds would not be enough, but 6 would.
Six sounds like a 20% improvement, but when one factors in misses, the effective improvement is much greater than that.

I don’t want to shoot a .38 without ear protection in a defensive scenario, but I certainly don’t want to shoot a .357, and still less a .327!
Me either.
 
if you ever said a .22mag snub or .380acp mini gun was good enough for a BUG, then surely you have to say the same for even a .32 S&W Long snub.
The .380 has long been considered superior to the .32 Long in terminal ballistics.

Recent ammunition developments have made the difference a lot greater. but the .380 still does not meet FBI requirements.
 
The .380 has long been considered superior to the .32 Long in terminal ballistics.

Recent ammunition developments have made the difference a lot greater. but the .380 still does not meet FBI requirements.

the .32 S&W Long from a snub penetrates as well if not more than a mini auto .380 or .22 mag snub. That's just the way it is. I never referred to the FBI approval, just the basics about what many have said they felt was good enough to carry.
 
Guys, I think most people would carry the 32 H&R Magnum for self-defense. I believe that’s what the Lucky Gunner recommended which makes all the sense in the world.
 
If one’s going to carry a revolver principally for self-defense, I guess I can see why the .327 or .32 H&R might be appealing... one more round than a .38 or .357, and possibly less recoil (though I am not sure if this has been substantiated... and recoil is highly subjective and often conflated with muzzle blast, which certainly would not be lessened in .32 defensive loads), with roughly equivalent effectiveness in the hotter loads.

It has been "substantiated". The 327 Fed has about 20% less recoil than the 357 magnum. About the same for the 32 H&R versus the 38 Special.
 
the .32 S&W Long from a snub penetrates as well if not more than a mini auto .380 or .22 mag snub. That's just the way it is. I never referred to the FBI approval, just the basics about what many have said they felt was good enough to carry.
The difference between the .380 and the .32 Long is the .380 has hollow points that expand and .32 SWL does not. The .32 SWL at least penetrates to the 12" minimum, so it can be considered effective, but shot placement is critical, while most .380s whose hollow points expand often fail to meet the 12" minimum.

The .380 being superior to .32 SWL in terms of ballistics, about the only measurable way it could be figured that way is by energy ft-lbs and that alone isn't enough to consider it superior.

The expanding hollow points are nice tho if you get the ones like Fiocchi or the new Federal Hyrda Shok Deep that expand very little, but go 12 inches.

IMO, if a bullet expanding to .43" and goes 12 inches is acceptable, then the .32 H&R Mag ammo that does about the same specs as those .380 hollow points do, but is doing it with a bullet that's 10 to 20 grains lighter, that's just as good.

If only one of the ammo manufacturers designed a .32 bullet that weighed more than 80 grains and was designed to expand more at snub .32 Mag velocities (900 fps) and hit 12 inches repeatably, it'd be perfect.
 
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The difference between the .380 and the .32 Long is the .380 has hollow points that expand and .32 SWL does not. The .32 SWL at least penetrates to the 12" minimum, so it can be considered effective, but shot placement is critical, while most .380s whose hollow points expand often fail to meet the 12" minimum.

The .380 being superior to .32 SWL in terms of ballistics, about the only measurable way it could be figured that way is by energy ft-lbs and that alone isn't enough to consider it superior.

The expanding hollow points are nice tho if you get the ones like Fiocchi or the new Federal Hyrda Shok Deep that expand very little, but go 12 inches.

IMO, if a bullet expanding to .43" and goes 12 inches is acceptable, then the .32 H&R Mag ammo that does about the same specs as those .380 hollow points do, but is doing it with a bullet that's 10 to 20 grains lighter, that's just as good.

If only one of the ammo manufacturers designed a .32 bullet that weighed more than 80 grains and was designed to expand more at snub .32 Mag velocities (900 fps) and hit 12 inches repeatably, it'd be perfect.
These are Buffalo Bore’s baddest badass rounds for both the 32 H&R Magnum and the 380:
HEAVY 32 H&R MAG. +P OUTDOORSMAN
130 gr. Hard Cast Keith @ 1,125 fps
1,133 fps - Ruger SP101 3-inch barrel

380 Auto +P Ammo
100 gr. Hardcast F.N. @ 1,150 fps
1,072 fps -- Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel
Since expandion with a 380 is probably minimal, I’d go for weight and penetration, which is why I selected these 2 loads for each for comparison.

Looking at the load data for both, the 380 ain’t in the same league as the 32 H&R. The sectional density of the 2 rounds will be dramatically in favor of the 32 H&R.
 
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Here’s 2 interesting takes on the 32 H&R Magnum vs the 38 Special.

 
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