Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Recipe verification

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by mactrekr, Feb 8, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Hi All,

    Just wanted to get some advice before trying something. I wanted to load some "hotter" rounds for my .357, and wanted to see if anyone had experience with the following recipe;

    9.5gr Accurate #5
    158gr Hornady XTP 158gr
    CCI Magnum, small pistol primers.

    Or advice on it. Is this too hot? My research has shown conflicting info, some show it below max recommendations others above. Hand measured and weighed each load to .02gr variance, but before I go try em, I'd like to throw it out there.
     
  2. Col

    Col Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Wales UK
    quickload shows 31697psi
    velocity 1650 fps

    seems to be within the min max limits
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    If you want "hotter" rounds, I would suggest you need to use slower powder then AA #5.

    Current Accurate data says:
    158 XTP bullet.
    #5 - 9.7 MAX = 1,256 FPS @ 34,150 PSI.
    #7 - 10.5 MAX = 1,360 FPS @ 34,242 PSI.
    #9 - 13.8 MAX = 1,367 FPS @ 35,022 PSI.

    Other powders like Alliant 2400 or Hodgdon H-110 could give you closer to 1,500 FPS safely.

    You can run closer to max pressure with slower powder as the chance of little things causing a pressure spike that will quickly put you Over max is much greater with fast powder.

    http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

    rc
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  4. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks guys, I just bought some Win231, and will probably move to that, (My only other option was Accurate #2 which is even faster than #5. I'll try these and if I live, I'll report back! Thanks.
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    You are going the wrong way!

    Win 231 is faster then AA #5.



    rc
     
  6. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,962
    Location:
    West GA
    What kind of scale are you using? Digital?

    I load a 158xtp w/ H110 (W296) using win mag primers. It is a very stout load. I've seen several people here using 2400 with what they said were similar results.

    I noticed you're using mag primers with your current load. I don't know anything about the #5, but mag primers are not needed w/ the 231 and could cause pressure issues.
     
  7. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Well, crap... ok, so what do ya'll recommend? I only want to do about 100 of these, so I'll probably just continue to use the #5 and be extremely diligent in my loads. I'm uber meticulous anyway, often weighing every couple of rounds for consistency.
     
  8. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Yup, got a really nice small scale that's rated down to .02gr. or .002 grams. It ain't perfect, but it's damn close. I calibrate it about every 10 measurements and so far it's extremely accurate. Only good up to 308gr. though, so I don't use it for my .45 or .44 loads.
     
  9. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,962
    Location:
    West GA
    You're at 9.5gr now; how did the starting load and other charge weights look when you worked them up? What's the last weight you tried before moving to 9.5gr?

    Edit: I would also find out about CCI mag primers and #5 from someone that's used that combo. You could already be beyond intended pressure.
     
  10. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,910
    Location:
    Delaware home of tax free shopping
    Buy a reloading manual like Lyman 49, check the manufacturer's website for data like hodgdon current maker of 231. Follow published data.
     
  11. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    :DThanks Master Blaster, I always loved it when my mom told me to "look it up".:D
     
  12. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,962
    Location:
    West GA
    This is one physics test you want to pass…
     
  13. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Yeah, that was the original intention of this thread. I was hoping someone who had used this combo could comment. I haven't got access to a chrono, (It's on my list).
     
  14. chrt396

    chrt396 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    418
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    A REAL nice load is a 158g bullet with 14.5g 2400..CCISP...what a great round!! Accurate load as well. It is now my go to round!
     
  15. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,264
    Location:
    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
    what size barrel ya using?

    http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=357+loading+manual&s_it=keyword_rollover


    Return to previous Page

    Reloading The .357 Magnum





    Left to right:-- 160 gr. SWC+GC, 160 gr. JSP, .357 with JHP, .357 with JSP
    .357 Armour Piercing, 160 gr. JHP, 125 gr. JHP

    (WC= WadCutter, SWC= Semi-WadCutter, HP= Hollow Point, RN= Round Nose), SP=Soft Point, (JHP= Jacketed Hollow Point and if GC indicated, means Gas Check at bottom of lead bullet)

    Loads for .357 Magnum:


    (Note: These are near maximum loads, you should use 10% less to start.)(2009 Note: Some of these loads are from 1996 and in the passing years the powder companies have reduced their maximum loads particularly ones that have been around a long time like Unique. The loads are not updated yearly.)
    (See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.)
    Bullets are .357" for jacketed and .358" for lead in diameter. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up.


    (There are some loads for a 90 gr. cast, but bullet is unstable and not recommended)
    (you can try 3.3 gr. Clays OR 5.0 gr. of TrailBoss)
    (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231)
    (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia)
    ----------------------------------------
    110 grain JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)
    Bullseye 7.0 gr. 1,343 FPS
    Bullseye 8.7 gr. 1,403 Max
    Unique 9.0 gr. 1,545
    Unique 9.7 gr. 1,447 Max
    2400 19.5 gr. 1,670 max
    Universal 7.5 gr. 1,465 start
    Universal 8.0 gr. 1,536 max
    HS6 10.6 gr. 1,612
    HS6 11.5 gr. 1,776 max
    HP38/W231 7.9 gr. 1,414
    HP38/W231 8.0 gr. 1,541 start
    HP38/W231 9.0 gr. 1,652 max
    No. 2 8.8 gr. 1,324
    No. 5 10.8 gr. 1,340
    231 8.8 gr. 1,575
    H-4227 18.9 gr. 1,774 start
    H-4227 21.0 gr. 1,900 max
    W-296 22.0 gr. 1,992 start
    W-296 23.0 gr. 2,078 max
    Zip 7.7 gr. 1,373 start
    Zip 8.6 gr. 1,525 max
    True Blue 10.3 gr. 1,347
    True Blue 11.3 gr. 1,475
    True Blue 12.1 gr. 1,583 max

    -----------------------------------------
    125 grain Lead RNFP (.358")
    Unique 6.9 gr. ~ ~ light load
    Universal 4.8 gr. 1,046 Hodgdon start
    Universal 6.8 gr. 1,401 Hodgdon max
    HP-38 & W231 4.6 gr. 1,052 start
    HP-38 & W231 5.5 gr. 1,185 max
    Trail Boss 3.5 gr. 874 start
    Trail Boss 5.3 gr. 1,035 max
    Titegroup 4.0 gr. 1,055 start
    Titegroup 5.4 gr. 1,274 max
    Clays 3.5 gr. 984 start
    Clays 5.3 gr. 1,260 max
    Autocomp 6.5 gr. 1,311 start
    Autocomp 7.5 gr. 1,456 max
    -----------------------------------------
    125 grain JHP or JSP (Jacketed Hollow or Soft Point)
    Bullseye 8.4 gr. 1,550 FPS (this is very hot)
    Unique 9.6 gr. 1,585 MAX (not recommended)
    2400 17.5 gr. 1,409 max
    Universal 7.1 gr. 1,394 start
    Universal 7.6 gr. 1,453 Max
    HS6 9.8 gr. 1,493 start
    HS6 10.0 gr. 1,542
    HS6 10.9 gr. 1,629 max
    HP38/W231 7.0 gr. 1,267
    HP-38 & W231 7.3 gr. 1,335 start
    HP-38 & W231 8.5 gr. 1,514 max
    Titegroup 6.8 gr. 1,425 start
    Titegroup 7.5 gr. 1,497 max
    No. 2 8.2 gr. 1,312
    No. 5 10.1 gr. 1,322
    No. 5 9.6 gr. 1,273 start
    No. 5 10.6 gr. 1,446 max
    No. 7 10.9 gr. 1,278 start
    No. 7 12.0 gr. 1,236
    No. 7 12.1 gr. 1,453 max
    No. 9 14.1 gr. 1,370 start
    No. 9 15.6 gr. 1,567 max
    231 8.1 gr. 1,460
    H-4227 18.0 gr. 1,692 start
    H-4227 20.0 gr. 1,839 max
    W296* 18.5 gr. 1,800
    * use magnum primers (standard is OK)
    W296 21.0 gr. 1,881
    W296 22.0 gr. 1,996 MAX
    Zip 7.1 gr. 1,276
    Zip 7.9 gr. 1,418 max
    True Blue 9.4 gr. 1,168 in Hornady JHP
    True Blue 10.4 gr. 1,226 is Max in Hornady JHP
    True Blue 11.3 gr. 1,262 +P for some bullets
    True Blue 11.5 gr. 1,472 max
    Enforcer 16.2 gr. 1,483
    Enforcer 17.0 gr. 1,567 +P max for some bullets
    -----------------------------------------
    135 grain LRNFP (lead)
    Universal 4.8 gr. 986
    Universal 6.5 gr. 1,314 max
    HP-38 & W231 4.1 gr. 946
    HP-38 & W231 5.3 gr. 1,027 max
    Titegroup 3.5 gr. 906
    Titegroup 5.2 gr. 1,186 max
    Clays 3.4 gr. 914
    Clays 5.1 gr. 1,207 max
    -----------------------------------------
    135 grain Speer Gold Dot HP
    Unique 7.8 gr. 1,185 max
    PowerPistol 9.6 gr. 1,291 max
    2400 16.0 gr. 1,377
    -----------------------------------------
    140 grain JHP or JSP (Jacketed Hollow or Soft Point)
    Power Pistol 8.2 gr. 1,125
    Power Pistol 9.5 gr. 1,288 max
    Unique 8.0 gr. 1,185 max
    2400 15.1 gr. 1,298 max
    H-4227 16.2 gr. 1,541
    H-4227 18.0 gr. 1,685 max
    W-296 & H110 17.1 gr. 1,597
    W-296 & H110 19.0 gr. 1,762 max
    Universal 6.5 gr. 1,218
    Universal 7.0 gr. 1,299 max
    HP-38 & W231 6.5 gr. 1,219
    HP-38 & W231 7.7 gr. 1,378 max
    AA #9 14.0 gr. 1,305
    AA #9 14.9 gr. 1,358 max
    Titegroup 6.3 gr. 1,262
    Titegroup 7.0 gr. 1,376 max
    Enforcer 14.4 gr. 1,311
    Enforcer 16.0 gr. 1,457 max
    True Blue 9.3 gr. 1,250
    True Blue 10.3 gr. 1,389 max
    -----------------------------------------
    146-148 grain LWC (Lead Wad Cutter)
    (bullets seated deeper = higher pressures)
    (I don't recommend lead at over 900 FPS)
    (unless at least using a Gas Check)
    (with pure lead wadcutters, do not use hot loads)
    Bullseye 5.7 gr. 1,475 FPS (max - hot)
    Unique 6.4 gr. 1,465 (very hot - max)
    Universal 3.5 gr. 880
    Universal 4.0 gr. 989
    HP38 & W231 3.0 gr. 845
    HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 908
    Titegroup 2.9 gr. 830
    Titegroup 3.3 gr. 909
    -----------------------------------------
    158 grain LSWC or LRN (Semi-Wad Cutter or Round Nose)
    (I don't recommend lead at over 950 FPS unless hard cast)
    (unless at least using a Gas Check or copper plated)
    Bullseye 4.8 gr. 939 max with plain lead bullet
    Bullseye 5.8 gr. 1,102 FPS MAX
    Clays 3.2 gr. 867
    Clays 4.6 gr. 1,079 max
    Unique 6.0 gr. 1,034
    Unique 6.8 gr. 1,295 max
    Universal 4.0 gr. 890
    Universal 6.2 gr. 1,247 max
    Universal 6.7 gr. 1,297 max +P
    PowerPistol 7.4 gr. 963
    TrailBoss 3.2 gr. 754
    TrailBoss 4.2 gr. 865 max
    Titegroup 4.5 gr. 1,028
    Titegroup 5.0 gr. 1,108 max
    No. 2 5.8 gr. 1,074
    No. 5 8.2 gr. 1,239
    No. 5 8.0 gr. 1,100
    No. 5 9.0 gr. 1,220 max
    No. 7 9.1 gr. 1,041 start
    No. 7 10.1 gr. 1,183 max
    No. 9 11.2 gr. 1,104
    No. 9 12.4 gr. 1,255 max
    HP38 & W231 3.9 gr. 846
    HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 796
    HP38 & W231 5.0 gr. 1,109 max
    2400 14.5 gr. 1,178 good load
    2400 14.9 gr. 1,232 near max
    231 6.7 gr. 1,275 +P max
    231 6.1 gr. 1,075 (plated, actual in 7" bbl revolver)
    296* 14.5 gr. 1,560 * use magnum primers
    ZIP 6.3 gr. 1,176
    ZIP 7.0 gr. 1,307 max
    True Blue 8.8 gr. 1,176
    True Blue 9.8 gr. 1,307 max
    (Enforcer load below is SWC + GC )
    Enforcer 13.5 gr. 1,295 Hi=1360, Lo=1249, ES=110
    -----------------------------------------
    158-160 grain JHP or JSP (Jacketed Hollow or Soft Point)
    Bullseye 6.8 gr. 1,250 FPS
    Unique 7.7 gr. 1,040
    Unique 7.8 gr. 1,280 max
    PowerPistol 8.5 gr. 1,078 max
    2400 14.8 gr. 1,265
    2400 15.2 gr. 1,535 max
    Lil'Gun 17.0 gr. 1,254 max in one manual
    Lil'Gun 18.0 gr. 1,572 MAX
    Universal 5.8 gr. 1,026
    Universal 6.3 gr. 1,133 max
    Universal 7.5 gr. 1,299 +P max
    Titegroup 5.4 gr. 1,135
    Titegroup 6.1 gr. 1,229 max
    HP38 5.4 gr. 1,020
    HP38 & W231 6.2 gr. 1,108 (as of 2008 HP38 & W231 are the same)
    HP38 & W231 6.9 gr. 1,220 max
    W231 6.1 gr. 1,013 (Actual in 7" bbl revolver)
    HS6 9.0 gr. 1,240
    HS6 9.5 gr. 1,370 MAX
    H4227 14.5 gr. 1,402
    H4227 16.0 gr. 1,520 max
    AA #2 6.9 gr. 1,088
    AA #5 8.6 gr. 1,084
    AA #5 9.7 gr. 1,256 max
    AA #7 10.5 gr. 1,139 max
    AA #9 12.4 gr. 1,202 start
    AA #9 13.8 gr. 1,367 max
    W296 & H110 15.0 gr. 1,418
    W296 & H110 16.6 gr. 1,610 MAX
    a Commercial JSP load averages 1,503 fps
    True Blue 8.1 gr. 1,164
    True Blue 9.1 gr. 1,262 max
    Enforcer 12.5 gr. 1,206
    Enforcer 12.7 gr. 1,148
    Enforcer 14.2 gr. 1,320 MAX
    -----------------------------------------
    180 grain JFP (Jacketed Flat Point)
    Bullseye 6.3 gr. 1,135 FPS
    Unique 7.0 gr. 1,125
    H4227 12.7 gr. 1,247
    H4227 13.0 gr. 1,240
    H4227 13.7 gr. 1,308 max
    W296 & H110 13.0 gr. 1,352
    W296 & H110 13.5 gr. 1,396 max
    Lil'Gun 13.0 gr. 1,279
    Lil'Gun 15.0 gr. 1,422 max
    Titegroup 5.0 gr. 948
    Titegroup 5.5 gr. 1,020 max
    2400 12.5 gr. 1,300
    AA No.5 8.0 gr. 1,040
    AA No.7 8.2 gr. 980 start
    AA No.7 9.2 gr. 1,100 max
    AA No.9 10.8 gr. 1,059 start
    AA No.9 12.0 gr. 1,202 max
    296* 14.1 gr. 1,380 max * use magnum primers
    Enforcer 11.4 gr. 1,075
    Enforcer 12.7 gr. 1,190 max
    -----------------------------------------
    180 grain Lead + Gas Check
    ZIP 5.6 gr. 1,042
    ZIP 6.2 gr. 1,158 max
    Lil'Gun 15.1 gr. 1,193
    Lil'Gun 15.3 gr. 1,219 max
    True Blue 7.6 gr. 1,046
    True Blue 8.4 gr. 1,162 max
    No.9 10.4 gr. 1,008
    No.9 11.6 gr. 1,145 max
    No.7 8.3 gr. 938 start (LCFP, no gas check)
    No.7 9.2 gr. 1,067 max (LCFP, no gas check)
    -----------------------------------------
    187 grain Lead FN + Gas Check
    Enforcer 12.3 gr. 1,208 Hi=1244, Lo=1179, ES=65 (good load)
    -----------------------------------------
    200 grain LEAD (SWC or RN)
    231 5.5 gr. 1,060
    296* 12.4 gr. 1,335 max
    * use magnum primers
    -----------------------------------------

    Discussion: Universal and Unique are good for lighter bullets, but if you want a slower burning powder, I suggest H-4227, Lil'Gun, W-296,2400, HS6 or No. 7. Several of these can also be used in rifle cartridges, so it's good to have for the magnum pistol loads and for rifle. I prefer the Unique or Universal as all purpose, and I also use them for .38 special, just less of it. If you have a lightweight .357 or older gun, you may want to start with 13% less than amounts listed above (but not where it says "start" load), and work up to the full loads. - - - Below, are three loaded rounds. The armor piercing round was bought commercially (in the 70's). It has a steel core and will pierce an engine block.

    For any loads over 900 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. Jacketed bullets create a bit more wear on the bore, but it's better than trying to wire brush out a bunch of lead build up. At the VERY least, use a copper Gas Check lead bullet or a copper plated bullet. There is also the issue of lead vapor to breathe if on an indoor range. Full copper plated bullets are a good idea for .357 loads instead of plain lead. Just depends on what kinds of loads you plan to shoot.




    *
    Bullseye, Unique and 2400 are products of Alliant (formerly Hercules) Powders.
    Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders.
    IMR TrailBoss are products of IMR (formerly DuPont) Powder Company.
    No. 2, No. 5, No. 7, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company
    WMR, 760, 748, 231, 296 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div.
    Note: Hodgdon as of 2009 controls IMR and Winchester Powders.
    References: 2009 Hodgdon Website .357 Magnum loads
    Accurate Arms Co. 1996 Reloading booklet - - Alliant Powder Co. Reloaders' Guide (1995) - - Hodgdon's Basic Reloaders Manual (1996) - - Speer Reloading Manual, #12 - - Winchester Reloading Components Manual, 14th edition - - Lyman Piston & Revolver Reloading Handbook, 2nd edition. - - VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) - - Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted.

    Return to previous Page



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This page created on 2/1/96 by M.D. Smith and last modified on July 14, 2011 ©
     
  16. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    As RC stated, you are going the wrong way. I'm not even going to suggest a powder for what you are doing. Right now the most important thing you can do is go back to square A and read some instructual reloading material. You don't seem to have much perspective on powders, primarily their burn rates and how they apply to pressures and velocities one desires to achieve.

    One final thought.
    Pick up a good instructual reloading book, ABC's, Speer, #49 Lyman and read cover to cover several times, especially before attempting to do what you are attempting to do. The importance of understanding the burn rates, and how they apply to the type of load your building is absolutely critical, critical!
     
  17. 4895

    4895 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    732
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    For HOT loads, I load 357 mag cases with 21.8 grains of H110 with 125 grain XTP and magnum primers. Great fun at indoor ranges with my 3" SP101.
     
  18. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    I'm using my S&W 586 6".
     
  19. mactrekr

    mactrekr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Yes, thank you, I appreciate the expert opinions, advice and assumptions of the many wizened experts of this board. I agree, I made a mistake with the 231, I've never loaded it before and wrongly listened to the recommendation of the shop owner where I bought it.

    That being said, and with all due respect, telling me to buy a book when I am specifically asking for a comment from someone about a specific load that THEY have used, is demeaning. I am all for reading and doing one's homework, however, I'm not a novice, nor am I an idiot. I would speculate that I am at least as meticulous in my loading as any of you, and I do not fly off half cocked. If you will read my opening thread, I'm asking for advice from those who have used this specific recipe or advice about the combo. If all you're going to do is tell me to go back to school, you really don't need to waste your time.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page