RECOIL COMPARISON: Polymer 9mm to alloy 9mm?

[The Mighty Beagle]

Having never shot a polymer-framed gun, I was just wondering ... how is the recoil of, say the Ruger P95 compared to the P94? I have the P94, and can honestly say that while it’s a good gun, I just don’t like the “shock†transferred though that alloy frame during firing. Add that to being top-heavy with a high bore-axis and you’ve got more recoil than a 9mm oughta have IMHO. I guess I’m a wimp, but I have gotten rid of every alloy-framed gun in every caliber I’ve ever owned, and have recently decided never to go that way again unless it's a .22.

I would buy a steel-framed 9mm, but am having trouble finding one with all the features I like, so I was wondering ... maybe there is a reason polymer is so popular? How does it compare to steel?

My guess is it's even worse than alloy, but OTOH I can't believe how much recoil my polymer rifle stock seems to absorb. I don't mind shooting my Rem. 7mm Mag. at all, so could it work the same for handguns?

Thanks!

 

[ojibweindian]

I really can't tell the difference.

 

[Boats]

9mm recoils? That's news to me.

To me the key is ergonomics. If it fits my hand like it is welded to it when I grip it, it doesn't matter what the pistol is made of when talking about a light recoil caliber like 9mm. Of course the more chopped it is, the less I like it because I have big mitts.

You want a steel 9mm, look at the CZ line. You can get DA/SA, DAO, SAO, traditional safety, decock only and on the DA/SA you have the option of cocked & locked. They're pretty versatile.

 

[The Mighty Beagle]

Actually, I am having trouble finding any CZ's around here, so that really isn't an option.

I would love a CZ 85, but have heard they are not quite as reliable or as durable as some other combat 9mm's. So for right now, I'm not really considering it.

What I'd really like is a Hi-Power or Smith 5906 with a good trigger. I was told by Novak's that they can't really do much with the 5906 trigger set up, so I sold the one I had, which was otherwise perfect. As far as the Hi-Power, I read on another board that a trigger job is pretty much necessary out-of-the-box. Not only am I not going to send a brand new gun off to a gunsmith, but I am not going to do this repeatedly, as I've heard the "trigger jobs" often wear out and eventually have to be re-done.

I could be happy with a Star B if they were reliable.

 

[sm]

To me the perceived recoil is more of a matter of gun fit and maybe weight of firearm...

To me , a 9mm really doesn't have recoil...the rythmn of the gun may behave a bit different than say a 45 ACP. A 9 is 'quicker/ sharper...a 45 is "a push". That really is hard to describe since each one of us percieves different. You mentioned long guns...to me the perceived recoil is less on a wood stocked shotgun , than the same exact model with a synthetic stock...

I have shot various rugers, some poly, some all metal...fit to ME was better than some other models. Others on range hated...gun fit...

I have on the other hand, on more than occassion run through as much as 500 rds in one afternoon with a Keltec P-11. I had no ill effects...and some loads were +P and +P+...

The testing and trying before you buy is -well- recommended and fun...ain't no bad range time...is there?

 

[Shane]

9mm recoil to me is snappy and sharp, but mild overall.


How does polymer vs alloy recoil?

Depends on the guns ergonomics of course.

But, my percention is my Sig Sauer P239 and P226 have a lot more snap and bite than my Glock 26. The Glock weighs less, so its actually recoiling MORE if you measured it, but due to the design of the grip it feels less IMO. The Glock for me is a little more comfortable to shoot. The polymer might also take some of the perceived bite out of it, I don't know.

All three of my 9mm's are pleasant to shoot, its just that the Glock to me is the most pleasant in terms of HOW it recoils.

 

[flinch]

Hello Mighty,

I have both P94 and 95. I agree with you about the 94. I seldom shoot it any more- my son has claimed it as his own.
The p95 is a much improved design and ,I think, more pleasant gun to shoot. May be the frame absorbs recoil, may be the ergonomics, I know it is quite easy to shoot and is the one I wont give to my son if he asked.

 

[10-Ring]

From my 92fs & my USP 9 & USPc 9. Not much difference in the 2 fullsize guns, but the compact is a smidge snappier but still very controllable & realatively mild.

 

[The Mighty Beagle]

Thank you gentlemen, it sounds like I've got nothing to lose by going polymer like the rest of the world has, so long as I make sure the gun fits me well.

You know, it's funny how people read into things, especially when the terms "9mm" and "recoil" are in the same sentence. To clarify, I wasn't bemoaning the reoil of the 9 - and by the way, the 9mm most certainly does have "recoil" - it's just the weird feeling the alloy frame translates to my hand.

Firing it sometimes feels like you have a tuning fork vibrating in your hand. Not uncomfortable at all, just ... weird. Weird to the point of wanting to avoid it. I had the same problem with a Sig P226 I once had, which was very accurate but not pleasant to shoot.

As for the P94, it's not bad to shoot, it could just be more pleasant is all.

BTW, I just got back from some local shops, where I got to look at several different autos. I was very, very impressed with the Springfield XD as it compared to the Glock. I liked the grip and the balance; it reminded me of an enlarged Kahr.

I think I might go for one of those, although I haven't totally eliminated the Walther, SW99, or Steyr yet. Speaking of other guns I've been wanting, I was quite unimpressed with a Taurus PT92 with a poor trigger and a Browning Hi-Power Siver Chrome.

That Hi-Power had the worst trigger pull I've ever felt in my life, it seemed like about 20 pds. It wasn't just heavy - I literally had trouble squeezing it hard enough to make the hammer fall. Also, I could tell I was going to suffer hammer bite, since a normal grip brought the cocked hammer down into the flesh of my hand.

Since they only wanted $200 more than dealer cost, I just walked out.

 

[Blackhawk]

You can make the analysis as complicated as you like, but it essentially boils down to metals being better "conductors" of force than plastic. Ever see one of those desk ornaments consisting of a frame with several steel balls suspended adjacent to each other? When a ball on the end is raised and let go, the force is transmitted through all the others to the last one, which zings up almost as high as you let the first one go from. The thing will clack away for a long time as it demonstrates how efficient steel is in transmitting force due to its elasticity.

If the balls were polymer, you'd be underwhelmed because they would absorb most of the force causing it so stop very quickly. That's the dampening effect of a relatively non-elastic material.

Bottom line: perceived recoil is the shock you feel when firing a gun, and the sharper it is, the more perceivable it is, so polymer's ability to dampen the recoil impulse gives it advantage over metal.

Note that it doesn't affect the total force your hand absorbs -- it just changes how you perceive it because it increases the time you have to absorb it.

I can make things MUCH more confusing in this discussion, but I think the point is adequately made.

 

[provalov]

I think you'll like the Springfield XD. I have three -- two 9s and a 40S&W. The grip angle and design are superb. In fact, I had initially been turned off of 40S&W due to the felt recoil of a Glock 23 I had access to. The XD40 had a completely different recoil "feel", I think in part due to grip design.

My kids, wife, her friends, etc. can all shoot the XD9 with no discomfort. In fact, of all my pistols, the XD9 is invariably the top choice of anyone I bring to the range with me.

It is an exceptionally safe sidearm as well. The grip safety gives me additional peace of mind since I carry my XD in a soft chest band holster.

 

[The Mighty Beagle]

Thanks Provalov. About how accurate is your XD-9? I've narrowed it down to the XD or the Walther, and notice that the Walther is more popular. What I would like to hear is that the XD would group under 2.5 inches at 25 yds., better is even more desireable. I read a review last night where it was more like 2.5 - 4 inch groups.

I've not handled a Walther, and am hesitant to order one based on hearsay.

Think I'll start a new VS. thread ...

 

[P95Carry]

Yep -- it's all been said but ........

That Hi-Power had the worst trigger pull I've ever felt in my life, it seemed like about 20 pds.

Hmmm .. was this the ''new improved'' model?? I ask because, my original HP was sweet and the FEG clone I have now is equally sweet .. would never have expected anything real bad from an HP trigger .... wonder if this is a rogue example?

Re polymer .. my P95, because I think so ''chunky'' is a better fit in the hand and also as has been said, the transfer of the raw ''shock'' is slightly buffered by the polymer, compared with metal. It's a minor point tho.

 

[The Mighty Beagle]

Hi P95,

It was a brand new Browning (made in Belgium, assembled in Portugal) Silver Chrome HP. Can't really say if it is atypical for the new HP's, since there simply aren't many HP's around here to look at.

As for the P95 frame acting as a buffer, that's exactly what I needed to know. I'm definitely gonna buy a polymer-framed gun now.

Thanks.

 

[P95Carry]

Brand new one eh Beagle .. well, bad news then! I have not liked much of the new one re looks and so on ... so for me ... it'll always be the ''old style'' .... a known quantity.

Good luck with your proposed purchase.

 

[cratz2]

I've heard mostly good things about the XD series. Chuck Taylor seems very impressed and to get him to say good things about a gun other than the 1911A1 or the Glovk 17 is difficult. Says he shot his best qualification score ever with the XD9.

I'm not a big fan of polymer guns. Recoil has never seemed to bother me much. I own or have owned Glocks and a SIG Pro nd have shot P99s. I've handled the XDs but have never shot one. I'd very much like to. Very impressed so far.

Don't like any of the Ruger pistols I've handled. Very blocky.

 

[provalov]

Beagle:
I honestly don't know if you would get that kind of grouping at 25 yards. We do most of our shooting for defensive training and have not done a lot of target shooting at that range. I would check out some more gun mag reviews for that info -- seems like Springfield has gotten just about everybody to run an article on the XD.