I purchased a 92 rossi carbine 16"bbl. in .357 and noticed that the recoil is more than I expected. Not bone jarring mind you but more noticeable than I expected. I shoot everything from 223 to 45/70 in rifles but this is the first pistol cartridge I've fired in a rifle. I also load my own 45LC ruger only loads 300gr xtp and have fired 180gr. xtp out of my sp101 and never really thought about recoil on the shoulder from a 357. Must be that thin butt plate diggin in or I'm not holding it right, it also bites my knuckles on the lever part between the trigger and loop. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong or is it just too short for me? I really like the little rifle. Now I can carry my SP, GP, Blackhawk, Speed Six, Sec. Six and rifle all with one ammo. Would that be considered multi-tasking?
Recoil from a .357 carbine
- Thread starter Russsty
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Third_Rail
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If it's hurting your shoulder and your knuckles, I'd say it's a bit too short for you. I've had worse luck with Rossi firearms fitting that anything else.... I'm 6'1" 200lbs, so I have somewhat of a reach, but not too much more than average.
GooseGestapo
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I too found the recoil of the .357mag in a rifle to be greater than I expected. I had a Marlin mod1894 w/20" bbl. What I did not realize to begin with was that the .357mag is an entirely different animal when fired from a rifle barrel than from a shorter revolver barrel.
As several rag writers of late have noted, the performance of the .357mag from a rifle is somewhat closer to that of the .30/30 than would be expected. This too includes recoil!
A pounds-feet computation reflects this; a .357mag with a 158gr bullet can often attain 2,000fps from a 20" bbl which puts it close the the .30/30 which gives approx. 2,250fps with a 150gr bullet. The pounds feet computation is MV times Bullet wt. in GRAINS divided by 7000 to convert from grains to pounds. For the .357mag at 2,000fps w/158gr bullet it is 45lb/ft. For the .30/30, its 48lb/ft. This is based on velocities I've obtained with factory ammo from both. (.357mag ammo was Mater Cart/GA ARM's "DeerStopper" load, and .30/30wcf was Winchester 150gr Open Pt. in "Silver" box- not the Supreme Power-Plus in black box at higher velocity- both from 20" bbls.)
Either do a creditable job on "deer" sized big game to modest distances (~150yds give or take).
BTDT too! Have venison in freezer to prove it!
As several rag writers of late have noted, the performance of the .357mag from a rifle is somewhat closer to that of the .30/30 than would be expected. This too includes recoil!
A pounds-feet computation reflects this; a .357mag with a 158gr bullet can often attain 2,000fps from a 20" bbl which puts it close the the .30/30 which gives approx. 2,250fps with a 150gr bullet. The pounds feet computation is MV times Bullet wt. in GRAINS divided by 7000 to convert from grains to pounds. For the .357mag at 2,000fps w/158gr bullet it is 45lb/ft. For the .30/30, its 48lb/ft. This is based on velocities I've obtained with factory ammo from both. (.357mag ammo was Mater Cart/GA ARM's "DeerStopper" load, and .30/30wcf was Winchester 150gr Open Pt. in "Silver" box- not the Supreme Power-Plus in black box at higher velocity- both from 20" bbls.)
Either do a creditable job on "deer" sized big game to modest distances (~150yds give or take).
BTDT too! Have venison in freezer to prove it!
Otony
Member
My first .357 rifle, er, carbine, was a Browning B92. This was about 20 years and 50 pounds ago
I too was a bit taken aback at the recoil. Not hurtful or excessive, but somehow I wasn't expecting as much as it produced. I had in my mind that it was going to be more like a Mini-14, and it was closer to a .30-30. Goosegestapo has it right, in a rifle, the .357 produces higher velocity, and has a heavy bullet weight, comparetively speaking, so the recoil is meaningful. It become the Death Ray it is supposed to be, with the attendant results.
Now oddly enough, 50 pounds later, and with a better stocked carbine (sorry B92 fans, the Marlin is MUCH better stocked, if not as cool), I find the .357 recoil to be, well, very acceptable I am sure it didn't have anything to do with the 50 pounds though
I too was a bit taken aback at the recoil. Not hurtful or excessive, but somehow I wasn't expecting as much as it produced. I had in my mind that it was going to be more like a Mini-14, and it was closer to a .30-30. Goosegestapo has it right, in a rifle, the .357 produces higher velocity, and has a heavy bullet weight, comparetively speaking, so the recoil is meaningful. It become the Death Ray it is supposed to be, with the attendant results.Now oddly enough, 50 pounds later, and with a better stocked carbine (sorry B92 fans, the Marlin is MUCH better stocked, if not as cool), I find the .357 recoil to be, well, very acceptable
I am sure it didn't have anything to do with the 50 pounds thoughWil Terry
Member
HMMM...I OWN MARLIN, ROSSI, AND BROWNING CARBINES
In the 357 MAG chambering. Neither of them has recoil much heavier than a really healthy beer burp with the heaviest loads ever shot in them.
I will remind one and all: Recoil is 90% between our ears, not between our hands.
In the 357 MAG chambering. Neither of them has recoil much heavier than a really healthy beer burp with the heaviest loads ever shot in them.
I will remind one and all: Recoil is 90% between our ears, not between our hands.
mainmech48
Member
You gotta remember that the little Rossi 'Trapper' only weighs about 5 1/2 lbs. With heavy bullets and full power loads recoil is gonna be a little snappy. You have to pull it in tight to keep it from getting a run at you. FWIW, it's a lot more unpleasant from a bench than it is from a more upright posture, at least to my mind.
The great thing about them is that you can do your practice and recreational shooting with .38 Spls and pretty much eliminate the problem. Full WCs won't feed from the magazine, but SWCs an RNs of any commercially available weight will work just fine. With standard pressure factory .38 Sp. loads or equivalent handloads it's a real pussycat.
With my handloads of 6.0 gr. Unique under a 158 gr. LSWC in .357 cases even my nine year-old nephew can shoot it all day without discomfort.
Run a couple of boxes of .38s through it and see if that's more like what you had in mind.
The great thing about them is that you can do your practice and recreational shooting with .38 Spls and pretty much eliminate the problem. Full WCs won't feed from the magazine, but SWCs an RNs of any commercially available weight will work just fine. With standard pressure factory .38 Sp. loads or equivalent handloads it's a real pussycat.
With my handloads of 6.0 gr. Unique under a 158 gr. LSWC in .357 cases even my nine year-old nephew can shoot it all day without discomfort.
Run a couple of boxes of .38s through it and see if that's more like what you had in mind.
The_Antibubba
Member
Except you should NEVER use centerfire RN in a tubular magazine!!
mustanger98
Member
MrMurphy: "What recoil?"
Yeah, that's what I thought. 158grain HP/XTP over H110 running 1500fps from a Marlin 1894 with a 20" barrel. No bite at the buttplate or lever either one.
Yeah, that's what I thought. 158grain HP/XTP over H110 running 1500fps from a Marlin 1894 with a 20" barrel. No bite at the buttplate or lever either one.
SLCDave
Member
...So I shouldn't use those Fiocchi Truncated Cone .357's I have laying around?
ChristopherG
Member
The possible danger from RN bullets in a tubular magazine is probably widely overestimated. The most acute form of this danger would be using round FMJ bullets with a heavy-recoiling gun. I've shot hundreds of round nosed lead bullets out of my marlin 1894 in mild loads, and have no fear of accidental ignition; I've read extended discussions on the Marlin boards about guys using round nosed hardcast bullets in 45/70 tubular magazines without concern.
Still, I would stay away from a jacketed round nose in a tube.
Still, I would stay away from a jacketed round nose in a tube.
mustanger98
Member
Soft Points and Hollow Points tend to be flat nosed. The real danger is in using Spitzers because the nose rests on the primer rather than contacting the base of the cartridge AROUND the primer.
wanderinwalker
Member
Funny, I'm only 20 and this thread has me thinking "memories."
Anyway, I had (operative word here) a Ruger 96/44 .44 Magnum for about 3 years. Played with it extensively at first. In factory trim, running full-power handloads, felt-recoil was more than expected, almost stout. Believe it or not, the butt fit me so poorly it would cause my entire right arm to twitch after about a dozen and a half to two-dozen rounds. Which is sad, because it really was a great little carbine. A recoil pad extended the length of pull about an inch, which made my right eyebrow safe(er) from the ocular lens of the scope.
Once I turned 18 I bought a Remmy Mtn Rifle in .260 Rem. Theoretically more horsepower and more recoil. Guess what? Feels better! Needless to say, the Ruger disappeared soon thereafter.
Of course, I still wish factories would make longer stocked rifles, carbines and shotguns. Col. Cooper be danged, most riflestocks are TOO short!
Anyway, I had (operative word here) a Ruger 96/44 .44 Magnum for about 3 years. Played with it extensively at first. In factory trim, running full-power handloads, felt-recoil was more than expected, almost stout. Believe it or not, the butt fit me so poorly it would cause my entire right arm to twitch after about a dozen and a half to two-dozen rounds. Which is sad, because it really was a great little carbine. A recoil pad extended the length of pull about an inch, which made my right eyebrow safe(er) from the ocular lens of the scope.
Once I turned 18 I bought a Remmy Mtn Rifle in .260 Rem. Theoretically more horsepower and more recoil. Guess what? Feels better! Needless to say, the Ruger disappeared soon thereafter.
Of course, I still wish factories would make longer stocked rifles, carbines and shotguns. Col. Cooper be danged, most riflestocks are TOO short!
wanderinwalker
Member
Double Tap.
Last edited:
twoblink
Member
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357
Take a look, with a decent barrel length, the 357Mag can exceed 30-30 specs.
http://www.limbsaver.com/
Try that if you think it's too stout. I'd get a poly bootie and call it a day. I'm fond of recoil reduction. Saves the shoulder, allows you to shoot longer, and gain accuracy..
Take a look, with a decent barrel length, the 357Mag can exceed 30-30 specs.
http://www.limbsaver.com/
Try that if you think it's too stout. I'd get a poly bootie and call it a day. I'm fond of recoil reduction. Saves the shoulder, allows you to shoot longer, and gain accuracy..
mainmech48
Member
I've used hundreds of .38 Spl. loads, factory and hand, using RN lead bullets in my .357 carbines without problems or qualms. Nary a smudge, much less a dimple, on a primer. Recoil is so negligible that the chances of generating enough inertial force to cause a detonation is virtually non-existent.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
mainmech48
Member
I've used hundreds of .38 Spl. loads, factory and hand, using RN lead bullets in my .357 carbines without problems or qualms. Nary a smudge, much less a dimple, on a primer. Recoil is so negligible that the chances of generating enough inertial force to cause a detonation is virtually non-existent.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
mainmech48
Member
I've used hundreds of .38 Spl. loads, factory and hand, using RN lead bullets in my .357 carbines without problems or qualms. Nary a smudge, much less a dimple, on a primer. Recoil is so negligible that the chances of generating enough inertial force to cause a detonation is virtually non-existent.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
mainmech48
Member
I've used hundreds of .38 Spl. loads, factory and hand, using RN lead bullets in my .357 carbines without problems or qualms. Nary a smudge, much less a dimple, on a primer. Recoil is so negligible that the chances of generating enough inertial force to cause a detonation is virtually non-existent.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
The only other CF cartridges that I've used in a carbine with a tube magazine are .30/30 and .35 Remington, the latter in both a Marlin 336 ans Remington 141. All of the factory .35 Remington 200 gr. loads use a RNSP bullet. The only 150 gr. spitzers I've ever used in .35 were in the Remington 141 where the magazine design uses a spiral to offset the nose of a pointed bullet from the base of the next cartridge.
I used a lot of mild-to-moderate handloads in the .35 Remington using the old Lyman 358429 cast bullet with no problems as well.
As long as one avoids FMJs, especially in .357 loads, I don't believe that there's an issue here.
I originally had a trapper in 30/30 and sold it for a .357 for two reasons:
cost of ammo (can shoot .38s) and that little bruise it left on my sholder after bench shooting a box of ammo. We can't hunt deer with rifles in Indiana, so I was religated to bench shooting it. The .357 didn't leave a mark and was more pleasant to shoot, but then I bought it after marrying and the 15 extra pounds (6'1" and 190 lbs) that came with tastier dinners.
However, don't think a .357 is a pup gun. Here's what we tried to test the penetration of cartridges, I guess it's dangerous - so I'm not telling you to do it. We set up some 1/4" welding steel bought from Lowe's at the 15 yrd dirt mound at the range and shot it with everything and the only handgun to penetrate it was the 4" 44mag. However, the .357 in the trapper rifle whislted right through it while the .357 in the 4" tracker did not.
cost of ammo (can shoot .38s) and that little bruise it left on my sholder after bench shooting a box of ammo. We can't hunt deer with rifles in Indiana, so I was religated to bench shooting it. The .357 didn't leave a mark and was more pleasant to shoot, but then I bought it after marrying and the 15 extra pounds (6'1" and 190 lbs) that came with tastier dinners.
However, don't think a .357 is a pup gun. Here's what we tried to test the penetration of cartridges, I guess it's dangerous - so I'm not telling you to do it. We set up some 1/4" welding steel bought from Lowe's at the 15 yrd dirt mound at the range and shot it with everything and the only handgun to penetrate it was the 4" 44mag. However, the .357 in the trapper rifle whislted right through it while the .357 in the 4" tracker did not.
iamkris
Member
OK, no offense folks, but the idea that a .357 Mag in a rifle generates anything even resembling recoil is a little silly.
http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/
A .357 Mag firing a 158 gr bullet running at 1500 fps in a 6 lb gun only generates 4 ft-lbs of recoil energy. For a reference point, that's roughly the same recoil as a .223 fired out of a 6 lb (yes stripped down) AR...no one would claim that round is recoil intensive.
A 45 Colt with a 250 gr bullet at 1500 fps in a 6lb lever gun creates 9 ft-lb. A .308 with a 150 gr bullet at 2600 fps in a 7.5 lb gun generates 13 ft-lbs. A .45-70 with a 405 gr at 1600 fps in a 11 lb Sharps will run you 16 ft-lbs, a 300 Win Mag with a 180 gr at 2900 fps in a 7.5 lb gun generates 25 ft-lbs.
I don't quote these to belittle you, but rather say you should work to become accustomed to recoil...if 4 ft-lbs is bothersome it may be more how you're holding the rifle in your shoulder pocket or maybe you're actually reacting to the muzzle blast rather than recoil.
The original poster obviously shoots other cartridges, so you can't blame the guy with inexperience. I'd say it could be that the rifle is too short causing him to hold the rifle incorrectly or maybe he's putting the heel of the buttplate in his shoulder.
http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/
A .357 Mag firing a 158 gr bullet running at 1500 fps in a 6 lb gun only generates 4 ft-lbs of recoil energy. For a reference point, that's roughly the same recoil as a .223 fired out of a 6 lb (yes stripped down) AR...no one would claim that round is recoil intensive.
A 45 Colt with a 250 gr bullet at 1500 fps in a 6lb lever gun creates 9 ft-lb. A .308 with a 150 gr bullet at 2600 fps in a 7.5 lb gun generates 13 ft-lbs. A .45-70 with a 405 gr at 1600 fps in a 11 lb Sharps will run you 16 ft-lbs, a 300 Win Mag with a 180 gr at 2900 fps in a 7.5 lb gun generates 25 ft-lbs.
I don't quote these to belittle you, but rather say you should work to become accustomed to recoil...if 4 ft-lbs is bothersome it may be more how you're holding the rifle in your shoulder pocket or maybe you're actually reacting to the muzzle blast rather than recoil.
The original poster obviously shoots other cartridges, so you can't blame the guy with inexperience. I'd say it could be that the rifle is too short causing him to hold the rifle incorrectly or maybe he's putting the heel of the buttplate in his shoulder.
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