recoil impulse 9mm & 40sw

[JO JO]

First thing this is NOT a caliber war or which is better just a simple question and asking advise
Here goes my issue I have been shooting 40 for the last decade plus and have not shot a 9mm in many many years but I am having issue with my hand and wrist " carpal tunnel and ulnar nerve compression" and I am wondering does 9mm really have that much less recoil that it would be more comfortable to shoot ?
Would I be better off selling of my 40's and going with the 9mm to save my wrist from getting fatigued
after firing 150 plus rounds ? I try to shoot weekly I have several G23's and reload but I am not interested in a conversion barrel but interested in possibly changing calibers to ease some stress on my wrist is there enough difference in recoil to make a difference ?

 

[TomJ]

I have some old injuries that cause pain in my right wrist if I shoot anything above a 9 for an extended period of time. I notice a difference between a 9 and 40. Seeing how you reload, is an easy solution to lighten your loads? I've done so with my 45's, and have them to the point where the recoil is no worse than my 9's but the guns function well. I do make sure to also shoot full power loads for guns I carry to maintain proficiency with those loads.

 

[reddog81]

It depends on the gun and the load. Everything else being equal a 9mm should feel like less recoil. I can load 45ACP rounds that have less recoil in a 1911 than you average 9mm. The starting loads for a 150 grain 40 S&W are right around 800 to 950 FPS. This is one par with your average 9mm 147 load if you want to do a comparison.

If you have several G23's it should be easy enough to sell one and get a G17 or G19 or do a trade with someone.

 

[Zerodefect]

Once I got good at mitigating the .40 and .45 recoil, I've been disappointed by 9mm. My 1st thought is "9mm should be easier to shoot than this." 9mm still has flip comparable to .40. And .40 has more straight back recoil and force.

Bottom line for me, stop watch says I'm not any faster with 9mm with CCW type pistols. Large race guns like the Glock 34, sure, I can see an advantage there. But not much of a useful one for any practical/tactical purpose IMO.

 

[Schwing]

First off, you have my sympathy. I have the same issue except I am lucky. I am a righty and have carpal tunnel and ulnar nerve issues in my left hand... It either hurts or is numb a lot. You have probably already been given the lecture but watch where you rest your elbows. I am a computer guy and have to be really careful with that.

I personally don't think it is going to make a huge difference. In my case, when I do shoot left handed, I tend to get sore and have problems more from my grip than recoil. Even if the recoil is the issue, I don't feel enough difference to matter much IMHO.

Since you reload, you should look at loading down a bit. I don't reload for .40 but in my 9mms and even .45s, I can get accurate and very soft recoil loads that still cycle all of my 9mms reliably. For revolver calibers, I can make them even lighter. It makes a long trip to the range a lot more tolerable for me.

 

[Zerodefect]

If you shoot often. I recommend switching to a type of pistol that's heavier and 9mm. And shoot your CCW Glocks just enough to remain proficient with them. Adding steel guide rods and a brass slug inside the grip hole could also make your Glocks nicer to shoot.

I'd recommend trying a Dan Wesson Black 9mm Valor.

 

[RPRNY]

So, my (offered entirely in jest) response to a recent suggestion that the 40 S&W was a solution in search of a problem below:

9mm is the problem for which 40 S&W is the solution. (i.e., what is an adequate cartridge for the effete, slope shouldered, "otherly abled" types from the Dungeons & Dragons club who can't seem to manage an adult chambered pistol but who shouldn't be abandoned to only shooting teeny-tiny europellets).

Having said that, the smallest caliber handgun I shoot is an M&P 40 2.0 , and I only recently started loading 45 LC with 230 grs Berry's HP over 10 grs HS-6. Yesterday, I shot full house 45 acp 230 grs hard ball in a compact 1911, full house 180 grs 40 S&W in above M&P40, and then these little honey 45 LC in a 7.5" Uberti Schofield replica. They felt like 22lr. It was such a pleasure and made me look like a very accurate shooter. I really enjoyed the lack of recoil.

So, despite the 9mm being the preferred round endorsed by the French Association of the Transgendered Rainbow Kitty Unicorn Club, don't let that get you down. Shoot what makes you feel good, even if the feelings are, you know, quite disturbing. Life's too short to not enjoy shooting.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Light powder charges with 180 grain plated or coated bullet are very soft shooting in my G22.
Worth trying before you switch guns.

 

[LiveLife]

I try to shoot weekly ... I have several G23's and reload

Since you reload, you can "download" 40S&W with certain powders to reduce the recoil on par with 9mm or less.

For my Glock 22/23/27, I can reload 180 gr bullet with W231/HP-38 around start charge so felt recoil is comparable to 9mm target load recoil. I have even used .1-.2 gr below start charge to produce lighter than 9mm recoil loads.

If you really want lighter recoiling loads, you can even use lighter recoil spring and further down load powder charge.

 

[ATLDave]

1. Recoil is predominantly driven by momentum (weight times velocity). Compare momentum of two loads, and you'll have a pretty decent approximate starting point for their recoil. Most retail .40 has significantly more momentum than 9mm, in that it drives substantially heavier bullets at similar velocities. If you roll your own, you can get them very close.
2. For a given level of momentum, the combination of a heavy bullet and a small charge of light/fast powder is going to provide the lowest recoil (absent compensators/ports).
3. Heavier guns recoil less than light ones. There's a reason that the combination of polymer guns and .40 cal rounds have proven to be too ergonomically challenging for many police departments.

 

[FL-NC]

There is absolutely a significant difference between my G23 and my G19. The 40 exhibits more muzzle flip, but as for pain/discomfort from recoil, I can't say there's a difference- but then, I don't have your problems. You should just try one- if you think about it, I bet you know someone who has a 19 or 17.

 

[1KPerDay]

my G23 is definitely less pleasant to shoot than the G19. Even shooting +p ammo in the 9 and standard in the .40 the 9 is softer. I'd make the switch if I were you. Downrange performance is basically identical.

You might also consider a softer shooting 9 like a Beretta PX4 storm or 92FS, or CZ SP-01, or a 9mm 1911 variant.

 

[sigarms228]

In lighter guns there is a most definitely noticeable difference between 9MM and 40. I have a Walther PPQ 9MM and son has P99 AS .40. Both are crazy accurate in my hands but I can shoot my PPQ all day and after a box of ammo through his .40 and I am about done for the day. Now my SIG P229 in .40 I can also shoot all day.

 

[Tallball]

I have some arthritis problems too. My solution is a big, heavy, steel pistol. I have a couple of Tanfoglio CZ clones on the large frame that are very easy to shoot. The 9mm one has very little recoil for a 9mm. My gigantic double-stack 1911 in 40 caliber isn't bad at all, either. My Star Super B in 9mm is another gentle-shooting pistol. When recoil is bothering you, polymer is not your friend.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I started in semi autos in 40 S&W with a gun that was lighter than was a good idea for a new shooter. I found the recoil manageable, but my follow up shots were really slow. I switched to 45 acp and was happy. Later I picked up several 9mm's too, and was again happy.

The recoil seems substantially less sharp to me with both calibers versus the 40. I recommend you try lighter loads, and/or go rent some 45's and 9mm's of comparable weight and size to feel the difference for yourself. I feel no need to own a 40 S&W at all anymore.

Though, I did just buy a 10mm. But it's a heavy gun, so I don't anticipate issues.

Hope you sort it out.

 

[JO JO]

thanks for all your input I may look at a G19 as I am so familiar with the G23 its almost the same gun, I guess the 9mm is also a bit cheaper to feed I am guessing 30 or 40 bucks per K not much but a tad cheaper

 

[Sig Bill]

Some 40 loads are snappier than some others. Hornady 165 XTP are the snappy one that it smarts my hand but the Underwood 155 XTP were a lot easier to shoot though it's more powerful.

You can use the Balistics101 site to compare.

http://www.ballistics101.com/40_caliber_sw.php

 

[JO JO]

Some 40 loads are snappier than some others

I have noticed this too,

 

[CDW4ME]

Subjectively, yea a 40 kicks more than a 9mm, objectively how much?
We can objectively compare recoil with a couple of calculations, power factor (PF) and recoil energy
Chrono averages are actual from my pistols.
Glock 19:
Federal HST 147 gr +P @ 1,044 fps / 356# KE / PF 153
Glock 23:
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 1,003 fps / 402# KE / PF 181
Using the PF calculation, 40 has about 15% more recoil
I referred to the AA load manual to get estimated powder charges for the next calculation (AA #7 for both).
Gun weight factored at 1.5 lb
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php
The 147 gr. 9mm has a recoil energy of 7.39
The 180 gr. 40 has a recoil energy of 10.52
Using the recoil energy calculation, 40 has about 30% more recoil
I have one more piece of data that is objective and I've obtained similar results over time.
My 2nd shot follow up time using carry ammo in both Glock 19/23 (with equal accuracy restriction) is about .02-.03 slower with the 40.
Even if the recoil energy calculation is correct and 40 generates 30% more recoil, it doesn't significantly increase my 2nd shot time.
Unless 3 hundredths of a second is significant.

 

[JO JO]

Interesting data comparison thank you

 

[badkarmamib]

thanks for all your input I may look at a G19 as I am so familiar with the G23 its almost the same gun, I guess the 9mm is also a bit cheaper to feed I am guessing 30 or 40 bucks per K not much but a tad cheaper

Why not get a Storm Lake 9mm barrel for your G23? I see that you said you were not interested in a conversion barrel, but it would be the most cost-effective way for you to feel the difference for yourself, before trading everything in for 9's.

 

[Peter Gun]

I believe that most less experienced handgun shooters , and maybe rifle too, are actually being jarred by the sound of high pressure rounds like a .40. I will agree that .40 and other large calibres do have more recoil but many people find that if they double up on ear protection it suddenly doesn't seem to recoil as much. The .40 is loud, you will shoot it better with better hearing protection.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I believe that most less experienced handgun shooters , and maybe rifle too, are actually being jarred by the sound of high pressure rounds like a .40. I will agree that .40 and other large calibres do have more recoil but many people find that if they double up on ear protection it suddenly doesn't seem to recoil as much. The .40 is loud, you will shoot it better with better hearing protection.

The 357 Sig is a good example of muzzle blast and it's effect on perceived recoil. I have a 357 Sig barrel for my G22, just for fun. Depending on the load, the 357 recoil is the same or less the average 40SW but it is much louder. I don't shoot 357 that often so the report of the first few rounds always surprise me.

 

[the duck of death]

You want to unsnap the 40SW--shoot it thru a G29 10mm (no need to change barrels). I have a 4gr Clays/180Zero/40SW load that's like shooting a 22LR.

 

[Jim NE]

As others have said, probably depends on the gun. I have a CZ 40 P that feels good and comfortable every time I shoot it, and the first few shots are always on target.

But everything else being equal, I feel 40 a lot more than 9. This is apparent to me when I shoot my Ruger SR9c and my Ruger SR40c. They're the same gun except for caliber. The .40 tires me out over time, and I shoot it less accurately. Could be just the differences in the guns, but I suspect it's the caliber. I don't have have any hand pain issues to speak of, so I can't address that subject. Good luck.