B M-P
Member
I am looking for a muzzle brake for my .308 bolt and would like to reduce the recoil, but I would like to avoid blasting those around me (and my own hearing).
Any recommendations?
Any recommendations?
Recoil reducing muzzle brake that doesn't irritate other shooters
- Thread starter B M-P
- Start date
- Status
though some are definitely worse than others, all of them are louder and more annoying
if you really want to be courteous, i recommend getting a plastic barrel or box and cut holes out of each end so you can shoot through it. line it with sound dampening foam. it cuts WAY down on the noise. set it on the ground in front of you if shooting prone, or mount it on a wooden board if shooting from a bench so you can set your rifle on the board and have the brake sit in the middle of the barrel
if you really want to be courteous, i recommend getting a plastic barrel or box and cut holes out of each end so you can shoot through it. line it with sound dampening foam. it cuts WAY down on the noise. set it on the ground in front of you if shooting prone, or mount it on a wooden board if shooting from a bench so you can set your rifle on the board and have the brake sit in the middle of the barrel
SilentScream
Member
You can always try one of the linear style brakes that are showing up more and more on the AR/Tactical style rifles.
That probably meets the legal definition of a silencer.
18 USC 921 (a)(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
If you can legally own a suppressor that is the best option for reducing felt recoil as well as reducing blast, flash, and noise. Otherwise I would suggest earplugs under ear muffs for you and those around you.
LeonCarr
Member
I don't think the "Shooting Muffler" meets the definition of silencer/suppressor because if you are shooting through the box, and it is not attached to the firearm, it is not a silencer/suppressor.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No it doesn't fit the definition.
Unless you attach the 55 gallon foam lined drum to the firearm.
A sound damper barrel or box for outdoor range use would be no different then an indoor range with sound dampening panels over & around each shooting position.
rc
Unless you attach the 55 gallon foam lined drum to the firearm.
A sound damper barrel or box for outdoor range use would be no different then an indoor range with sound dampening panels over & around each shooting position.
rc
Again show me something of legal authority that says it must be attached. I don't know as I haven't researched it much. However, I wonder if it is like statutes for drug paraphernalia. They are actually written in incredibly broad terms. Almost anything could meet them. Many items could meet the definition or could be innocuous, plastic baggies, apple cores, soda cans, even glass pipes, bongs, etc. I've prosecuted cases that had questionable items. What it ends up turning on in practice is showing use. Use ends up being pretty definitive. A box with foam or a barrel just sitting there are not "for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm." When you use it for that exact purpose it is.
Just thinking out loud, one clear way to distinguish them is the latter is a fixture. That alone might mean it is not a device. The second way I would argue it is that a shooting stall is not portable and the definition deals with portable weapons (although the argument to the contrary is that the firearm has to be portable and there is no requirement the deice be). Lastly, one could distinguish them by pointing out that they actually serve different functions. The box is being built for and specifically used "for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm," a shooting stall demarcates shooting positions, acts as a physical barrier to brass and debris, and really doesn't muffle a shot in any appreciable way.
We know full well a device does not have to be attached to a gun to be a silencer. Bust out your lathe build one and never attach it to a gun and you are still in very hot water. The question seems to be does it need to be capable of being attached? If so the question is then what would constitute capable and being attached? Does it need to screw on? Is duct tape enough (like so many soda bottle silencers which few question meet the definition)?
Just thinking out loud, one clear way to distinguish them is the latter is a fixture. That alone might mean it is not a device. The second way I would argue it is that a shooting stall is not portable and the definition deals with portable weapons (although the argument to the contrary is that the firearm has to be portable and there is no requirement the deice be). Lastly, one could distinguish them by pointing out that they actually serve different functions. The box is being built for and specifically used "for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm," a shooting stall demarcates shooting positions, acts as a physical barrier to brass and debris, and really doesn't muffle a shot in any appreciable way.
We know full well a device does not have to be attached to a gun to be a silencer. Bust out your lathe build one and never attach it to a gun and you are still in very hot water. The question seems to be does it need to be capable of being attached? If so the question is then what would constitute capable and being attached? Does it need to screw on? Is duct tape enough (like so many soda bottle silencers which few question meet the definition)?
Last edited:
Z-Michigan
Member
The "linear brakes" soften the recoil a little bit and direct the blast downrange, making life more pleasant for the shooter and people behind or next to the shooter. Just don't expect a major recoil reduction. There are several companies making them and all are similar.
As for the sound insulated box, I suppose that could be construed as a suppressor since the definition seems to catch something that is defined to suppress a portable firearm, and is unclear whether the device needs to be attached or portable. BUT... BUT... a pillow or automotive muffler could also qualify under that interpretation. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, but I think that something large and bulky that rests on the ground is unlikely to get you in legal trouble with the BATFE. You can always write their technical branch and ask, if you want to make one but only with certainty that it's legal.
FWIW, I've read on a forum (possibly here) that Washington State views such a device, even if permanently attached to a club's shooting line, as an illegal suppressor under their state law on suppressors. YMMV.
As for the sound insulated box, I suppose that could be construed as a suppressor since the definition seems to catch something that is defined to suppress a portable firearm, and is unclear whether the device needs to be attached or portable. BUT... BUT... a pillow or automotive muffler could also qualify under that interpretation. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, but I think that something large and bulky that rests on the ground is unlikely to get you in legal trouble with the BATFE. You can always write their technical branch and ask, if you want to make one but only with certainty that it's legal.
FWIW, I've read on a forum (possibly here) that Washington State views such a device, even if permanently attached to a club's shooting line, as an illegal suppressor under their state law on suppressors. YMMV.
TITAN308
Member
If you hold a pillow up to a barrel and shoot through it, your pillow has not magically become a silencer instead of a pillow.
Edit: This is actually from the sticky in this forum about hearing protection:
Edit: This is actually from the sticky in this forum about hearing protection:
~Abstract~
Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 78
Thinking out loud...
If you "permanently" mounted guns around your property...could you attach silencers, since those are not then "portable"?
If you "permanently" mounted guns around your property...could you attach silencers, since those are not then "portable"?
If you put a soda bottle over the end of your gun, or a rifle it has?
What is your legal basis for saying the pillow used in such a way is not a silencer?
Also one key difference is you did not construct the pillow for the express purpose of muffling a gun shot and then use it for that purpose. Again I'm not saying it necessarily would be. I am saying that based solely on the definition in the Federal code there is an argument it could be. There are some cases about when things equate to being redisgned to be silencers. I'd need to read much more before i could form any real opinion though. Things that still needed to be drilled, and tapped i.e. they couldn't be attached to a gun yet, have been ruled to be silencers. See U.S. v. Davis, Cr. No. 8:93-106, Report of Magistrate, (D.S.C. June 21, 1993), and Order of Dismissal, September 24, 1993.
We could also go into the long history of, shall we say, interesting ATF legal opinions.
Hahaha, I also thought that.
What is your legal basis for saying the pillow used in such a way is not a silencer?
Also one key difference is you did not construct the pillow for the express purpose of muffling a gun shot and then use it for that purpose. Again I'm not saying it necessarily would be. I am saying that based solely on the definition in the Federal code there is an argument it could be. There are some cases about when things equate to being redisgned to be silencers. I'd need to read much more before i could form any real opinion though. Things that still needed to be drilled, and tapped i.e. they couldn't be attached to a gun yet, have been ruled to be silencers. See U.S. v. Davis, Cr. No. 8:93-106, Report of Magistrate, (D.S.C. June 21, 1993), and Order of Dismissal, September 24, 1993.
We could also go into the long history of, shall we say, interesting ATF legal opinions.
Hahaha, I also thought that.
Last edited:
TITAN308
Member
I won't argue the gray area tactics of that agency.
If you take a 2 litter bottle and place it on the end of the muzzle and tape it place, that may be the kicker verse hanging it on there.
No idea.
What about shooting from a tree stand house? If you are firing from the inside to the outside? Is your tree stand house now a suppressor? Its just nothing more than a bigger version of a box.
If you take a 2 litter bottle and place it on the end of the muzzle and tape it place, that may be the kicker verse hanging it on there.
No idea.
What about shooting from a tree stand house? If you are firing from the inside to the outside? Is your tree stand house now a suppressor? Its just nothing more than a bigger version of a box.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I would argue it falls outside the definition the same way shooting lanes at the range do.
Again certainly not legal advice or anything approaching authoritative opinion, however, I would think the more something is designed and built solely for muffling the sound of a shot, and the more it is used solely for that purpose the more likely it is to meet the definition in the statute. I have not really searched for and do not know if we have other sources of law, such as case law or even other statutes, that inform that definition. I would also tend to think, but again have no real authoritative basis for it, the more easily moved and used something is the more likely it could fit into that definition (i.e. being a device as a opposed to a fixture or something else, some of that might be semantics but a lot of the law is semantics and fine distinctions).
RcModel, I did a quick skim of that link. Does it contain any info about the legalities? I didn't see anything in my brief skim and quick search for key words.
Red Cent
Member
This works surprisingly well on my 223 AR.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5594/Product/Levang-Linear-Compensator
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5594/Product/Levang-Linear-Compensator
jogar80
Member
Try an Edwards Recoil Reducer. Not as effective as muzzle brake, but it does work. I have used one on a very light hunting rifle.and it helped. It is a tubular looking thingy that goes installed in the buttstock
Jim Watson
Member
It would take a contorted (i.e. government) interpretation to call a baffle box on the bench a silencer. There are a lot of them around.
A soda bottle taped to the muzzle IS considered a silencer. You can even buy threaded adapters to screw a bottle (or an oil filter) neatly to your barrel... with payment of the $200 tax.
The OP should bite the bullet and buy a real silencer. Pay the tax and shoot quietly and with less recoil.
A soda bottle taped to the muzzle IS considered a silencer. You can even buy threaded adapters to screw a bottle (or an oil filter) neatly to your barrel... with payment of the $200 tax.
The OP should bite the bullet and buy a real silencer. Pay the tax and shoot quietly and with less recoil.
B M-P
Member
Not being into NEF stuff much I have a dumb question:
Some have suggested a supressor, I know there is the $200 transfer tax, is there an ongoing license issue with that as well or is it a once done deal?
Thanks for all the great information
(P.S. someone was charged recently with a silencer violation for holding a potato (really, I couldn't make this stuff up) over the muzzle of a pistol. It is all about intent.
Some have suggested a supressor, I know there is the $200 transfer tax, is there an ongoing license issue with that as well or is it a once done deal?
Thanks for all the great information
(P.S. someone was charged recently with a silencer violation for holding a potato (really, I couldn't make this stuff up) over the muzzle of a pistol. It is all about intent.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
One and done.
Unless you sell/transfer it to someone else, then they owe another 2 bills.
It can be used on the one weapon, or 47.
It matters not what you put it on.
rc
Unless you sell/transfer it to someone else, then they owe another 2 bills.
It can be used on the one weapon, or 47.
It matters not what you put it on.
rc
To actually try and answer your question...
I suggest you look for a brake that directs the gasses to the front and not soo much to the side, or back at you.
I have a 308 using one of Teludyne Tech.'s muzzle brakes and it is an effective brake, yet is not as obnoxious as other style breaks that I've been next to one the firing line.
I'm not sure if Teludyne sells their muzzle brakes as a stand alone product but it wouldn't hurt to call them up and ask. Teludyne is staffed with great people, call 'em up and see what's what.
http://youtu.be/Kwe363_CpzU
I suggest you look for a brake that directs the gasses to the front and not soo much to the side, or back at you.
I have a 308 using one of Teludyne Tech.'s muzzle brakes and it is an effective brake, yet is not as obnoxious as other style breaks that I've been next to one the firing line.
I'm not sure if Teludyne sells their muzzle brakes as a stand alone product but it wouldn't hurt to call them up and ask. Teludyne is staffed with great people, call 'em up and see what's what.
http://youtu.be/Kwe363_CpzU
Swampman
Old Fart
@ B M-P, Sad to say, but living in California means you're outta luck with owning a suppressor.
I also doubt you'll have much luck with finding a non NFA muzzle brake that won't increase muzzle blast.
If your main concern is recoil reduction, you could try putting lead shot in hollow areas of your stock.
It's cheap, easy, and just as easily removed if you don't like it.
If you'd like to reduce sound signature, check out the sticky at the top of the page about avoiding hearing damage from powerful rifles. In post #92 Ranb says that he was told by the ATF that a non attached, ground mounted noise reducer is NOT considered a suppressor. I'd pretty much trust Ranb's word on anything related to suppressors.
I also doubt you'll have much luck with finding a non NFA muzzle brake that won't increase muzzle blast.
If your main concern is recoil reduction, you could try putting lead shot in hollow areas of your stock.
It's cheap, easy, and just as easily removed if you don't like it.
If you'd like to reduce sound signature, check out the sticky at the top of the page about avoiding hearing damage from powerful rifles. In post #92 Ranb says that he was told by the ATF that a non attached, ground mounted noise reducer is NOT considered a suppressor. I'd pretty much trust Ranb's word on anything related to suppressors.
In a purely technical sense, the external baffle box cannot fit the definition of a "silencer" or "muffler" as defined above since the report of the firearm is not silenced, muffled or diminished; it is merely kept from propagating. It's no different in that way from the soundproofing in an indoor range that keeps the neighbors happy. The actual report enters the air un-muffled, silenced or diminished but is externally dampened/contained/constrained. If that's illegal, then they need to shot down every indoor range because they are all designed to silence, muffle or diminish the sound of firearm reports when the listener is outside. Likewise, hearing protection would be illegal if marketed to/for shooters.
Silly arguments all, and all driven by a corrupt agency grown out of Prohibition. Prohibition died, and the BATF should have died with it along with the NFA.
Silly arguments all, and all driven by a corrupt agency grown out of Prohibition. Prohibition died, and the BATF should have died with it along with the NFA.
- Status
