Bayou Runner
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- Mar 15, 2007
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- 27
1860 Army, although the 1858 Remington is a stout and excellent shooter. And then there is the Walker....hmmm. But I gotta admit that I've always been an 1860 Army fan. Prefer diet pepsi MAX too!
Recomend a revolver?
- Thread starter wco
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scalper
Member
At the sake of repetition, I'd certainly go for the Ruger Old Army if you can find one and can afford it.
Otherwise, I'd probably start with a .36 caliber 1851 Navy revolver produced by either Uberti, Pietta, or Euroarms. Truth is as long as you stick with any one of the majors for a .36 or a .44, I think you will be fine. Get one of the Dixie Gun Works catalogs and sit back in your easy chair and look for something that catches your eye. If you are a do it yourselfer, you might even check out the kits. Be prepared though, once you get the bug on BP revolvers, you start wanting it all and it can get quite expensive. Just ask my wife.
Otherwise, I'd probably start with a .36 caliber 1851 Navy revolver produced by either Uberti, Pietta, or Euroarms. Truth is as long as you stick with any one of the majors for a .36 or a .44, I think you will be fine. Get one of the Dixie Gun Works catalogs and sit back in your easy chair and look for something that catches your eye. If you are a do it yourselfer, you might even check out the kits. Be prepared though, once you get the bug on BP revolvers, you start wanting it all and it can get quite expensive. Just ask my wife.
[email protected]
Member
you have been given excellent advice in all of above. boils down to what you want to represent / do with the pistol. solid frames are stronger and more accurate than colt. the ruger, as said above is not authentic, but should be an excellent gun. i have always thought the 51 navy was the best looking / feeling so that is what i have. would like to get a paterson, but they are not too comfortable for me to hold. guess im just fascinated with them. i believe they would be more fragile, also
SWC Bonfire
Member
Depending on where you are, it may be easier to get .44 caliber balls in a wider variety of sizes than .36 unless you mail-order. Others here claim that a .36 shoots better with a .380 cast ball, which are hard to come by. Because of this, I would recommend a 1851 navy that is in .44 caliber instead - very easy to point & shoot (although it shoots high), easy to come by the right diameter balls (the pietta seems to like .452 by the way), and probably also the cheapest model as well in places like midway, cabela's and dixie gun works.
I have an el-cheapo brass framed pietta that was my first BP handgun, and with 18-20 grains of fffg 777 it is the most accurate handgun I have ever fired.
I have an el-cheapo brass framed pietta that was my first BP handgun, and with 18-20 grains of fffg 777 it is the most accurate handgun I have ever fired.
Really boils down to the type of shooting you do. I have always liked the larger calibre handguns, I carry a 45 on duty, so my first BP revolver was the Walker. Sense that time I have shot a variety of the other colts and my fathers Remington new army many times. Hands down my favorite is still my Walker!
Best of luck with your decision. I dont think you can really go wrong with any of the suggestions made here. I would suggest trying to find a local shop that sells a variety and see what feels best in the hand. I know for many, the near 5 lbs the walker weighs is just a bit too much for a days shooting.
Best of luck with your decision. I dont think you can really go wrong with any of the suggestions made here. I would suggest trying to find a local shop that sells a variety and see what feels best in the hand. I know for many, the near 5 lbs the walker weighs is just a bit too much for a days shooting.
AdmiralB
Member
I'm in the same boat. Was a pretty hardcore shooter in the ISPC mold about fifteen years ago, then pretty much gave up shooting around 1996.
Now I'm getting into BP for the first time. Haven't fired one yet, and I don't have any local dealers, so I've ordered a bunch of stuff and am sifting through likes and dislikes.
So far I have had, and will probably keep:
A Walker - too big and bulky to be the *only* piece, more like performing art. But a great conversation starter.
A New Army - IMO (thus far) the most practical BP revolver. Sturdy, better sighting, and no worries about wedge wear.
An 1860 Army - the ultimate refinement of the .44 cal revolver.
...and possibly an 1851, probably the London model. I would toss this up with the 1861, but I can't stand the stock screws on the 1860 and 1861 (have an 1860 civ model en route) - they dig into my trigger finger.
Never really considered the Ruger, it makes all kind of practical sense but I've never like Rugers - bulky and clunky, by comparison to other makes...IMO at least. Had a Python and a 586 rather than a GP100, and a 629 rather than a Redhawk.
Now I'm getting into BP for the first time. Haven't fired one yet, and I don't have any local dealers, so I've ordered a bunch of stuff and am sifting through likes and dislikes.
So far I have had, and will probably keep:
A Walker - too big and bulky to be the *only* piece, more like performing art. But a great conversation starter.
A New Army - IMO (thus far) the most practical BP revolver. Sturdy, better sighting, and no worries about wedge wear.
An 1860 Army - the ultimate refinement of the .44 cal revolver.
...and possibly an 1851, probably the London model. I would toss this up with the 1861, but I can't stand the stock screws on the 1860 and 1861 (have an 1860 civ model en route) - they dig into my trigger finger.
Never really considered the Ruger, it makes all kind of practical sense but I've never like Rugers - bulky and clunky, by comparison to other makes...IMO at least. Had a Python and a 586 rather than a GP100, and a 629 rather than a Redhawk.
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Does anyone here have only one BP revolver? I think the fun of this sport is the variety you can have for relatively small change. I have everything from the small .31 Baby Dragoon up to the Walker (neither of which is, in my opinion, an everyday shooter - the Baby Dragoon is too small, the Walker is a little on the large side). For sheer shooting fun - noise, boom, long range accuracy, and the looks on other shooter's faces - you can't beat the Walker.
I have an 1862 Pocket Police - for it's small size and relatively large powder charge (20 grs - same as the 1851 .36), it gives quite a kick and is probably my favorite one-handed shooter. The 1851 and 1861 Navy .36 are probably the best hand-fitting revolvers with their great balance. The larger .44s - 1860 Army, Dragoon, and the Remingtons (I have a Remington in .44 & .36), have balance and plenty of power. Remingtons don't have the wedge/barrel/frame issue to deal with but they can have their own problems (fouling on the pin for one). I also have a Kentucky pistol .45, which is amazingly accurate. The Paterson is a different breed altogther but a great shooter, too. For a brass framer I have a Spiller & Burr, and a High Standard Griswold and Gunnison, both tough and accurate guns.
For complete trouble free shooting I have a Ruger Old Army. Lightweight, good looking, exceptionally well made, never a cap jamming problem, accurate (adjustable sights), plenty of power, bigger chambers for cold weather loading - I was always very anti Ruger Old Army until I got one - now it's a favorite.
I just got my first original, a Whitney Navy .36 that should be a good shooter when I get tired of just looking at it.
BP shooting is like the old Lays potato chip commercial - Bet you can't eat just one.
I have an 1862 Pocket Police - for it's small size and relatively large powder charge (20 grs - same as the 1851 .36), it gives quite a kick and is probably my favorite one-handed shooter. The 1851 and 1861 Navy .36 are probably the best hand-fitting revolvers with their great balance. The larger .44s - 1860 Army, Dragoon, and the Remingtons (I have a Remington in .44 & .36), have balance and plenty of power. Remingtons don't have the wedge/barrel/frame issue to deal with but they can have their own problems (fouling on the pin for one). I also have a Kentucky pistol .45, which is amazingly accurate. The Paterson is a different breed altogther but a great shooter, too. For a brass framer I have a Spiller & Burr, and a High Standard Griswold and Gunnison, both tough and accurate guns.
For complete trouble free shooting I have a Ruger Old Army. Lightweight, good looking, exceptionally well made, never a cap jamming problem, accurate (adjustable sights), plenty of power, bigger chambers for cold weather loading - I was always very anti Ruger Old Army until I got one - now it's a favorite.
I just got my first original, a Whitney Navy .36 that should be a good shooter when I get tired of just looking at it.
BP shooting is like the old Lays potato chip commercial - Bet you can't eat just one.
I couldn't have said it better.
Can't wait until you get a Rogers & Spencer and see where you put that in your list.
And there's the Starr single action and double action revolvers. I don't personally like them, but hey, you gotta try everything...
Can't wait until you get a Rogers & Spencer and see where you put that in your list.
And there's the Starr single action and double action revolvers. I don't personally like them, but hey, you gotta try everything...
scrat
Member
one bp revolver. hahahahah
2 1851's
1 1860
1 Walker
With im sure many more on the way as soon as i get a new safe. the other 2 are completely filled
2 1851's
1 1860
1 Walker
With im sure many more on the way as soon as i get a new safe. the other 2 are completely filled
Are you reading my mind? I've been looking at them lately. But, are they different enough from a Remington, Whitney, or Spiller & Burr to justify buying one? An original would be great.
I looked at a Starr at my Toy Store recently but I'm thinking that with a complicated gun like the Starr, it better be well made, and I'm not sure how well made the replicas/repros are.
I have to admit I'm on an original Whitney kick now that I have one. You can pick them up for a lot less than an original Colt. I saw one in an antique store last weekend that was basically a relic - all rusted, just a frame, cylinder, hammer, and trigger. But the tag said "Dug up at Antietam." It would never be a shooter but if the tag was correct, it has some great history.
I really don't think I could choose one BP revolver - I could eliminate some from the choices, but picking just one? That's tough.
Euroarms Rogers & Spencer is a fine gun. Yes, it's quite different from the Remington - I like it better, but that's a comment about grip and balance, both very personal items. I will not say it shoots better, however - I'm not good enough to make either better than the other.
Starr - no, they're not made well enough. At least, my 2001 Pietta isn't. I have worked on the action some, but not enough to clean it up and make it smooth. I don't like the feel, so the motivation isn't there. Maybe someday. However, you may find differently - definitely try one out first.
Starr - no, they're not made well enough. At least, my 2001 Pietta isn't. I have worked on the action some, but not enough to clean it up and make it smooth. I don't like the feel, so the motivation isn't there. Maybe someday. However, you may find differently - definitely try one out first.
Gunruner
Member
The 1860 Army was my first and second BP revolver. They were both Pietta's plus both shot to point of aim at approx 30 meters with my sight and hold! I once tried to see how many rounds I could fire without cleaning and shot over 50 with FFF Goex and crisco over the ball. I now have a Uberti 1858 Army and a ROA. I like the 1858 best of the three types. It has good balance, loads easily, cleans up easy, great fixed sights and is one of the new proper(same as original Rems.) sized frame/grip. The biggest drawback to the 1858 is the binding after only 12 rounds with real black(all I shoot). However it's the tightest of all 4 revolvers and the one I will take to the woods with. My Ruger has Rosewood grips that were not fitted to the grip frame properly and are oversized. It's looser in the cylinder lockup & loading lever than the three Italian guns. Plus it is really muzzel heavy, which is ok for the range but not for that quick shot out of the holster in the woods.
For first gun I'd go inexpensive and get a Pietta 1860 Army or 1851 Navy from Cabella's with the starter kit. At less than $275 you can have the revolver, starter kit, tin of caps, pound of powder, lube(crisco or bore butter) and a cleaning kit w/BIG bag of cleaning patches. In this day & age of high prices it doesn't get much cheaper than that for the whole kit and kaboodle. Just my opinions..........Mike
For first gun I'd go inexpensive and get a Pietta 1860 Army or 1851 Navy from Cabella's with the starter kit. At less than $275 you can have the revolver, starter kit, tin of caps, pound of powder, lube(crisco or bore butter) and a cleaning kit w/BIG bag of cleaning patches. In this day & age of high prices it doesn't get much cheaper than that for the whole kit and kaboodle. Just my opinions..........Mike
powder charge
Thanks for all the info and advice. I chose the Pietta 1858 New Army from Cabela's. I have already received it and am sure I going to really like it, especially once I get it to the range.
Here's another question though. The Pietta instruction manual recommends a powder charge of 12-15 grains FFFG whereas the Cabela's manual which also came with the revolver recommends 35 grains of FFFG or 28 grains of Pyrodex P. What's up with the discrepency between the two manuals?
Thanks for all the info and advice. I chose the Pietta 1858 New Army from Cabela's. I have already received it and am sure I going to really like it, especially once I get it to the range.
Here's another question though. The Pietta instruction manual recommends a powder charge of 12-15 grains FFFG whereas the Cabela's manual which also came with the revolver recommends 35 grains of FFFG or 28 grains of Pyrodex P. What's up with the discrepency between the two manuals?
12-16 grains is too light, 35 grains is too heavy, and the implied equivalence of 35 grains of FFFG (real black powder?) and 28 grains of Pyrodex P is nonsense.
Start with either 25 or 30 grains of real black FFFg or Pyrodex P, it doesn't matter. Put about 80-100 rounds through the gun and just enjoy shooting it. Don't get too hung up on accuracy at this point. Once you've broken it in good and developed a loading procedure you're comfortable with, it's time to develop an accurate load.
Start with 20 grains FFFG real black powder or Pyrodex P. Shoot a group of 5 shots at 7-10 yards from a rest. Clean the bore and chambers and shoot another group of 5 shots at a new target using 25 grains; clean and shoot a group with 30 grains at a new target; clean and shoot a group with 35 grains at a new target. Mark each target with the amount of powder. Take great care that the only variable between groups is the powder load; in other words, do not vary your procedure or technique including, and this is very important, your sight picture or point of aim. Don't pay any attention to where the group is on the target. What's important is the size of the group.
The smallest group is your most accurate load. Start with the load that gave that group and shoot more groups varying the load up and down just 2 grains per group from that load; in other words, if 25 grains was the smallest group, shoot new groups (exactly the same technique and point of aim, etc. as above) with 23, 27, 21 and 29 grains to see if there is any more adjustment that's worthwhile.
Now that you have the best powder load you can start making other changes to see if they matter, things like lubed wads vs grease over the ball, different types of powder, different types and makes of round balls, amount of compression when loading, effects of global warming, etc.
And most of all, have fun shooting.
Start with either 25 or 30 grains of real black FFFg or Pyrodex P, it doesn't matter. Put about 80-100 rounds through the gun and just enjoy shooting it. Don't get too hung up on accuracy at this point. Once you've broken it in good and developed a loading procedure you're comfortable with, it's time to develop an accurate load.
Start with 20 grains FFFG real black powder or Pyrodex P. Shoot a group of 5 shots at 7-10 yards from a rest. Clean the bore and chambers and shoot another group of 5 shots at a new target using 25 grains; clean and shoot a group with 30 grains at a new target; clean and shoot a group with 35 grains at a new target. Mark each target with the amount of powder. Take great care that the only variable between groups is the powder load; in other words, do not vary your procedure or technique including, and this is very important, your sight picture or point of aim. Don't pay any attention to where the group is on the target. What's important is the size of the group.
The smallest group is your most accurate load. Start with the load that gave that group and shoot more groups varying the load up and down just 2 grains per group from that load; in other words, if 25 grains was the smallest group, shoot new groups (exactly the same technique and point of aim, etc. as above) with 23, 27, 21 and 29 grains to see if there is any more adjustment that's worthwhile.
Now that you have the best powder load you can start making other changes to see if they matter, things like lubed wads vs grease over the ball, different types of powder, different types and makes of round balls, amount of compression when loading, effects of global warming, etc.
And most of all, have fun shooting.
PRM
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,111
Colts BP
Been carrying and shooting 2nd Generation Colts for 3 decades now. Lot of fun and fond memories. I really like the 51 Navy and Walker models for accuracy. I have an 1862 Pocket Police that I had cut down to a 4.5 inch barrel with a smaller version of the Army front sight added. It was refinished at the Colt Black Powder Arms factory when they were up and running back on 2000. I also had a set of pre-ban Elephant Ivory grips made for it and my name engraved on the back strap. Little gun shoots great and is easy to pack for a trip in the woods. Most Colts and Colt clones shoot a little high on the point of aim to point of impact. Comes with the design. With practice this is easily compensated for and I have shot rabbits with it (stationary).
Slower to load than a modern counterpart - but twice the fun - Years ago when I bought my first C&B revolver I wanted to shoot, and did not have a lot of money. I could cast my own balls and go to the range for the fraction of the cost of shooting cartridge gun. Black powder really grows on you and only gets stronger with time.
Keep Your Powder Dry
Been carrying and shooting 2nd Generation Colts for 3 decades now. Lot of fun and fond memories. I really like the 51 Navy and Walker models for accuracy. I have an 1862 Pocket Police that I had cut down to a 4.5 inch barrel with a smaller version of the Army front sight added. It was refinished at the Colt Black Powder Arms factory when they were up and running back on 2000. I also had a set of pre-ban Elephant Ivory grips made for it and my name engraved on the back strap. Little gun shoots great and is easy to pack for a trip in the woods. Most Colts and Colt clones shoot a little high on the point of aim to point of impact. Comes with the design. With practice this is easily compensated for and I have shot rabbits with it (stationary).
Slower to load than a modern counterpart - but twice the fun - Years ago when I bought my first C&B revolver I wanted to shoot, and did not have a lot of money. I could cast my own balls and go to the range for the fraction of the cost of shooting cartridge gun. Black powder really grows on you and only gets stronger with time.
Keep Your Powder Dry
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Grey Wolf
Member
I agree with riot earp almost 100%.
Remington fouling? swipe it out when you reload.
Colts look and are a bit delicate without a top strap.
Rogers & Spencer - why "sort of" historically accurate. I've never handled one. I have an original that I have shot a few times. IMO it's the most beautiful BP revolver ever made.
Ruger - I own and shoot an early one with a brass frame, most accurate and best built of all the above (Ruger quality control).
Adjustable sights not period correct. Disassembly and cleaning easiest of all.
I admit that I don't shoot revolvers much. Most of my shooting is with 1800-1836 single shot weapons
Remington fouling? swipe it out when you reload.
Colts look and are a bit delicate without a top strap.
Rogers & Spencer - why "sort of" historically accurate. I've never handled one. I have an original that I have shot a few times. IMO it's the most beautiful BP revolver ever made.
Ruger - I own and shoot an early one with a brass frame, most accurate and best built of all the above (Ruger quality control).
Adjustable sights not period correct. Disassembly and cleaning easiest of all.
I admit that I don't shoot revolvers much. Most of my shooting is with 1800-1836 single shot weapons
Well my first BP revolver was a Walker Colt. I love it I bought it mostly due to it's history but I do love the way it shoots. Amazingly accurate almost no felt recoil and lots of smoke and noise. It is a real attention getter at the range. I haven't had any of the problems that many folks here talk about with their walkers. the most annoying thing about it is caps falling off the nipples prior to firing and spent caps falling into the action after firing, but i suspect that would be a problem with any percussion revolver. Mine is an Uberti by the way. One heck of a lot of fun.
I consider the Rogers & Spencer "sort of" historically accurate because they were delivered too late to be used in the Civil War. There is speculation that some were sold on the civilian market after the War and made it out West, but I've seen no hard evidence. They were mothballed until the turn of the Century and were used out West (and in Mexico) after that, both as cap & ball and as cartridge conversions. They feel great in the hand.
scrat
Member
Three things
caps falling off and falling in the works. i have had so much trouble with this. almost seems like i needed to change the nipples. Then i thought it may be a light main spring. Maybe i needed to change it.
Then the loading lever always fell down from the very first time i fired it. tried the filing job but it would still fall down with 55 grains of goex. So now after i load it. i just take out the screw for the loading lever then remove it. ta da. now it doesnt fall.
Then i finally made the best choice around and purchased an R&D conversion cylinder. Timing seemed right on. I still took it to my local gun shop. 20 bucks later a couple hours later and the timing was perfect. they barely had to do anything but it was better insurance to have it checked. Now its soooo much fun to shoot. i cast the bullets now use goex 3fff. Winchester large pistol primers. Spg lube and wow what a shooter. its so much fun.
Once i fired my first round of 45 long colt i inspected the primer. The main spring is just fine hitting the primers hard. So i know its not a main spring problem at all. i know changing the nipples would probably help but in my area all i can get is cci caps so i need to match cci caps to the nipples. So thats my next task. however its just so much fun to shoot 45 long colt. Everybody still turns there heads to see what im shooting. The range officers always ask questions about the gun. even let them shoot it too. they all like it. it still shoots high with 45 long colt. i shot steel at 100 yards last time i was at the range with the walker. Of course i was using a bag. i didnt try it free hand. im not too sure i could next time i will try though.
Jbar4Ranch
Member
pohill said:
I was doing a search for "High Standard Griswold & Gunnison" when I came across this old thread...
9 Ruger Old Armies
2 High Standard Griswold & Gunnison's
2 Pietta 1860's
2 Uberti Walkers
2 original 1849 Colts
1 ASM 1849 Colt pattern
1 Uberti 1873BP44
1 1st gen Colt SAA, circa 1876 (Ya didn't specify it had to be C&B)
BHP FAN
Member
At this moment I have a Rogers and Spencer,a brass frame engraved .36 Remington,two .31 pocket Remington revolvers,a Spiller and Burr .36,and I have had at LEAST thirty revolvers over a fifty year lifetime,and IMHO,the Remington .36 is the best handling BP revolver made,tho' the Remington 51/2'' .44 comes in a close second.Ruger is the Cadillac,but for the price you can pick up a NEW Cabela's Remmie,and three or four spare cylinders,a holster,AND a belt.
Elbert P . Suggins
Member
I proudly own a 3rd. generation Colt 1st Dragoon, 1 early Navy Arms 1851 36cal. Navy, 2 Pietta Remington 44 cal. New Army, 1 Uberti 5 1/2inch Remington 44 cal. New Army, 1 Pietta 1860 44 cal. Army, 1 SS Ruger Old Army 44 cal. and also 1 3rd. generation Colt SAA 45 cal., 2 Uberti Colt SAA 38 cal., 1 Ruger Vaquero 3 5/8" in 45 cal. that I shoot BP cartridge in CAS. I love this sport and it grows on you. I am in a smaller CAS club where we shoot twice a month with an average of 8-12 shooters and we have a protected area that doesn't get much of a breeze so I think you know that smoke has quite an influence on scores. Ah, the Aroma!
Jbar4Ranch
Member
Well, if we're talking CAS revolvers with BP cartridges, I can fill a whole page! I thought 't'were just BP revolvers, as in not nitro proofed.
I thought 't'were just BP revolvers, as in not nitro proofed. BHP FAN
Member
Oh,CARTRIDGE revolvers?.357 Thunderer,.357 Dakota,matched pair of consecutivly numbered .357 Uberti 1890's,mismatched .45 1875 Remingtons [one EMF,one Uberti ] Two New Dakotas,consecutivly numbered,in .45 Colt and one older model Dakota in .45 Colt.and that's just the western stuff,not counting the 1917 S&W,and the Webley,the Nagant....
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