Recommend a knife for CCW

[Geno]

ACP230--I agree Completely!

Even when I was a junior high/high school principal, I believed that it was perfectly fine for a student to bring a "pocket-knife" to school, BUT, to leave it safely in the pocket. Oh how the world of education has changed with the ZERO tolerance law!

However, for adults, in Michigan, it is not permitted to use a knife for self-defense. Or, so the CCW (Director of the County S.W.A.T. team & a practicing attorney told our CCW course). It has to do with the fact that, save for a head-shot, one-shot, instant-kills are truly rare! Most people with a knife in hand, can cover about 40 feet before being stopped by pistol fire! That means that most people would get cut if they BG really wanted to do so, inasmuch as most defense situations occur at about 7-10 feet. Add to this that kevlar does NOT stop a knife, and one understands why knives are not permitted for self-defense carry (in Michigan).

He told us, carry your knife by all means, EVERYONE should, BUT, if pulled over, tell the police that you work at Xxxxxx" store and shooting range, and that you use it to open boxes. Okay.

Personally, I take one of the following:

1) Cold Steel Land & Sea Rescue
2) Leatherman Tool (Original Model)
3) Sheffield razor (Locking, folder)

Care to guess my favorite? Exactly--the Leatherman Tool!

Doc2005

 

[tellner]

Doc, what exactly do you mean? Is it illegal to carry a pocket knife in Michigan? Is there a special law which states that it is a crime to use a knife in self defense? I'm a little skeptical.

Knifelaw linked to a site with information about the law in Michigan. Carrying with the intent to use unalwfully is a crime. Concealed dirks, daggers are out. For some reason the law has weird attitudes about things being carried in cars. Other than that I can't see where a pocketknife or non-concealed fixed blade knife is illegal to use in lawful self defense or to carry.

Strangely enough, knapped stone is specifically excluded from the definintion of "dangerous stabbing instrument". Guess I'll have to get obsidian and an antler if I plan on visiting Michigan...

 

[Topgun]

I carry this one, Benchmade Stryker 910 plain edge....but they are stopping production.

Also like the little Spyderco Delica with fully serrated edge. Smaller and handier and a better cutter if not as neat.

But.....when thinking SELF DEFENSE.....stick to a gun or pepper spray.

Knives will get you hurt.

 

[tellner]

At very close quarters you're at least as well off with a knife as a gun. They don't run out of ammunition. They are dangerous in more than one direction at once. They are legal in places where guns aren't.

Pepper spray? For self defense against people who really want to hurt you? Not if you value your life.

 

[JShirley]

I dunno. I'm fairly confident with a knife, but then, I'm quick, agile, and determined.

And I have years of training. Oh, and I've actually killed large animals (deer) with knives. Still, there are good reasons to be cautious about using knives if there are any other options...blood-borne diseases being just one of the potential issues.

John

 

[Valkman]

If you're going to pull a weapon that's considered a deadly weapon, and you have a choice of a knife or a gun, you'd be nuts to pull the knife IMHO. If you're a master combat ace with a knife fine but I'm not getting into a knife fight with anyone unless both Kimber mags are empty. I'd carry a BUG before I carried a knife "to back up the gun" if I was that worried about it.

 

[KarbineKrazy]

I believe the knife as a last ditch weapon, or a weapon retention tool to be carried on the weak side. If some azz hat has his hand on your gun, you grab your gun. If he doesn't let go, you CUT HIM! Atleast, that's the training I've recieved.

So, Glock 23 in IWB strong side rig, NAA .380 in pocket, Sheffield Razor in lefthand pocket... Ready to rock and roll

 

[scbair]

The wisdom re: clothing for the outdoors is "layer it." Several layers of lighter clothing (t-shirt, flannel shirt, light sweater, windbreaker/water-resistent jacket, for instance) are much more adaptible to changes in weather & activity than a shirt and a heavy coat. You can use what's needed and pack away the others.

I employ the layered approach to self-defense. Alertness, first. If that fails, awareness and use of retreat and/or cover. If that fails, I want a defensive handgun. If situation prohibits the use of a handgun (can't legally carry, or it immediately becomes a contact-range conflict, innocent bystanders in the area, etc.) I want a sharp knife.

Advantages of a knife are: contact effectiveness (requires less brute strength than an impact weapon); difficult for an assailant to disarm me (grab what's exposed, if you want to . . .) and psychological shock value (the sight of one's own blood may act as a deterrent to further assault).

Now, if I can't avoid an assault, my handgun is either back in my vehicle or has malfunctioned, and my knife blade snaps, then and only then will I consider empty hand techniques (yes, I train, but I really don't want to have to rely on this alone).

As I want immediate access and great strength in my knife, but am legally prohibited from carrying a fixed-blade, my current daily carry is a Benchmade Axis-Lock specimen. A variety is offered; pick one that suits your needs.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

Check out the new benchmade assisted opening OSBORNE knife. I replaced my emerson withthis knife.

fast and strong.

 

[swampdog]

I currently carry a Spyderco Endura C10PBK. Light weight, good steel, no
spring to fail when you need it.

If you're forced to use a knife to protect life or limb, your opponent shouldn't see the knife before it's in use.

Excellent advice. If someone approaches you with his knife held behind his hip,
weak hand forward for blocking or grasping, he's probably experienced and serious.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

There are very few "periods" in self defense and whether a gun is the only tool you need is certainly one of the "periods" professed by the ignorant. Your choice to add a knife to the defensive toolbox puts you far ahead of more "experienced" shooters who have little real defensive experience and who are completely dependent on their gun for every defensive problem.

The key is less the knife and more the training. Get at least a seminar on retention and use of the knife to aid in retention followed up by a defensive knife course.

I am going to look into a defensive knife course and available training in my area.

I look at a knife as an alternative to a handgun, not usually better, but not always a worse choice either. Nothing wrong with having another option!

There may be places where a firearm is prohibited by CCW holders, but a knife is not.

My CCW instructor wasn't specific on type of knife when he said "it's OK to carry a knife". I will look at state law but I believe a fixed blade is OK. I'm thinking a fixed blade IWB would be easily hidden.

One advantage of a knife is much less chance of a civil lawsuit because your shot missed (or overpenetrated) and hit an unintended target.

I must ask, if you have to stop a BG in self-defense and you have a knife, where is the best place to actually stab him?

 

[SRMohawk]

They're very expensive, but look at both MercWorx and Strider knives. Only knives I know of with which you can open a man-hole cover or hack the head and legs off a 250-lb feral hog carcass and still have a perfect edge!

 

[ruger357]

Benchmade. I usually carry the 705 but it's being replaced by the 707 tomorrow.

 

[JShirley]

While there may be times and places where one can carry a knife but not a firearm, the inverse may also be true.

Georgia, for instance, allows carry of firearm concealed with CCL, but does not allow knives "carried for offense or defense".

John

 

[middy]

Can't recommend a folder for self-defense.

I like the Spyderco Bill Moran drop-point; light, tough, razor-sharp, awesome sheath (I took the TekLock off and laced paracord through the eyelets, much more concealable).

 

[ocelot777]

Sheffield razor

Carry a knife for utility mainly (I think they cut stuff better than guns) and this provides a (truthful) reason for having it on your person if you need to use it for SD.

As regards efficacity, all other things being equal I'd rather have a knife than not , but this only really applies if you know how to carry, produce and use it.

I think talk of where best to stab a guy in a knife-fight is discussed extensively elsewhere (and has the potential to make us sound psychotic

Finally, as a side question, what is this "Sheffield razor (Locking, folder)" of which you speak doc? Also mentioned by Karbinekrazy . . . Not shaving razors I presume?

 

[12-34hom]

KaBar - TDI. on duty and off.

12-34hom.

 

[hso]

You're not going to be taking a course to "stab" someone if you're looking for a one day defensive knife seminar. The course will focus on using the knife to get someone off of you and your sidearm.

You may eventually take course that will take use of the knife to that level, but that's a later discussion.

The "sheffield razor knife" is a chinese POS knockoff of the Superknife. Both are folders that incorporate a utility blade into the design so that you don't have to sharpen the blade when it gets dull. Just toss the dull blade and replace with a sharp one from the box. GREAT utility knives that you don't have to worry over wrecking the blade on staples. Not so great fighter because it's a piss poor knife for thrusting/stabbing and the exposed blade section is small enough to require very precise strikes to shallow ligaments and tendons to disable an attacker. It's difficult to be precise when you're belly to belly at bad breath range with someone you're kicking and biting and trying to sever the tendons and ligaments on.

 

[ugaarguy]

I've carried quite a few knives both as a civillian, and now entering my third year of active duty service in the USAF. I've packed an Emerson CQC7, a couple Kershaws, a CRKT Pat Crawford design, a Spyderco Endura and a Centofante collaboration, Benchmade mini Stryker, mini TSEK, and Benchmite auto. They've rarely seen use since I picked up a Benchmade model 551 Griptillian. The 551 is great - lightweight, great ergonomics, great utility blade. I always carry a blade for general utililty, but I wouldn't be shy about pressing one into defensive use if it came to that. I like my 551 the most, but I also like the others. Get a knife from any major maker that you can open easily and that fits your hand well. Carry it, play with it, use it, get comfortable with it.

 

[ocelot777]

Thanks hso!

 

[Jeff Timm]

I believe the one weapon requiring more training than a handgun, is a knife used in self defense.

The type of blade would be dependent on Local Laws (and be VERY careful) and the training available.

Note that not all states define knives the same, and that while Gun carry may be preempted by state law, the blade is still regulated by both state and local laws.

Geoff
Who wishes he was rich enough to be escorted by bodyguards and full time lawyers.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

learn to use it. or die trying to fake it. Good classes are all around. Cold steel in ventura has a good one. But they are in most areas.

Most Infantry or ex infantry types can help you as well. I took a class From a guy when i was in camp Doha. Kuwait. he made me learn stuff I would not have thought of.

If you pull a knife, just like a gun , Be ready for whatever may happen. I got stuck in bar outside Fort Jackson SC. I was breaking up a fight between my buddy and local type.

It turned into a malee, and somebody slashed my left side and cut my belly. I did not know it until after the fight. Got some good scars and that 1986.

Point is, dont take it lightly. Dig

 

[wa_cowboy24]

I have read alot of your replies fellow members and it seems to me that someone should address the most important issue in my personal opinion when deciding to carry any form of weapon for personal protection : I am ready to take a life in defense of mine or my family, I am emotionaly ready to accept the consequenses both moraly and legaly for my action, and most importantly I am ready to stand before a jury of my peers to be judged for my action.

I was taught never to unholster a gun or knife unless I am going to end a life in defense of my own, in my opinion too many people carry weapons because it gives them a false feeling of security.

I dont mean to demean anyone but how many of you have truly asked yourselves this question, a weapon in the hands or on a person who is not 100% comitted both pysically and emotionaly to use it is worse than having nothing at all because crime statistics show this evry year. my intention is to provoke thought who here agrees with this?

 

[JShirley]

Most Infantry or ex infantry types can help you as well

I heartily disagree. Someone who happens to be in the infantry may also happen to know some knife skills, but the knife skills are not present because they're in the infantry.

Even bayonet training was not taught for a while. It's being taught again, but it's understood it's an agression exercise; no-one expects you to execute a bayonet charge. How much less "knife fighting"!

John

 

[hso]

Most Infantry or ex infantry types can help you as well.

No offense, but you were uniquely lucky that someone in uniform was available that knew much beyond the most rudimentary level in using a knife in a fight. The generalization that everyone else in the infantry is so knowledgeable doesn't follow. My personal experience has been that prior military and active military personnel come looking for training once they realize the need for learning to fight using a knife.