Recommend an AK

[Sonora Rebel]

My cheap-o ($240.00) stamped receiver Norinco came with bottom folder... 'n I've owned it for 21 years w/o any case of the flimsies noted. I can hit what I aim at. It was designed as a close combat (automatic) weapon, not a Jeager. It's chambered for standard available ammo (7.62x39mm) If you're gonna fire 5.56mm... Get an AR clone. Single shooters cancel out any wiggle you might get on full-auto.

"most people on gun boards talk like society is going to collapse tomorrow, and youll be shooting the old lady down the street at 300 yards from your rooftop in order to protect your collection of Cambells soup supply from being raided."


I already have her pegged as soup pirate when the SHTF. She's dead meat.

 

[M2Pilot]

I've never owned an AK, never shot a semi AK & didn't sleep at a motel last nite & I'm not an expert about much of anything, but,for what it's worth. A few months ago Shotgun News said "The finest AKM-type semioutomatic-only rifle every manufactured....". They were speaking of the Arsenal SLR-106FR. I thought it was sorta pricey.

 

[dstorm1911]

Guntech, man that looks EXACTLY like Arizona............. minus the green stuff on the ground My backyard is 5,000 acres of BLM land so settin up 1500 yard shoots is no difficult task, we can run out to 800 and still be on my property I use trailer mounted target stands we can tow out into the BLM land behind ATVs for longer ranges.....



As long as ya get your hands on the rifles ya are intrested in anything that FEELS good to you will be all ya need....

 

[GunTech]

Ummmmm, yer not in Afghanistan, nor is anyone here.

That was in reply to your contention that military rifles were being used only at short range. Military small arms are used at greater ranges than the 50 yards you claim. You need to rwad posts in their entirety, digest them, write a replay, and then read your reply before you post

most people on gun boards talk like society is going to collapse tomorrow, and youll be shooting the old lady down the street at 300 yards from your rooftop in order to protect your collection of Cambells soup supply from being raided.

You need to actually read the posts. I said I wanted something suitable for plinking and shooting rodents, and to have one before they are banned. I have no idea where you are getting this post-collapse stuff. If you can't add something germain and useful to the discussion, why are you bothering to post? I am here for information about currently manufacturer AKs. I already know what I want. As a graduate of the Ft Benning school for boys (MOS 11B) and former Infantry officer, I know something about military small arms and how they are utilized.

If you'd like to offer your own observations, based on time spent in the service, or even from various tactical matches you compete it, please feel free to do so. If you are going to offer opinions based on books you read or material gleaned from the internet, please get the facts right.

As noted, anyone who wants to discuss the realitys of modern small arms combat should at least be familiar with the Hitchman report, for a start. You can find extended excepts in "The Great Rifle Controversy", "SPIW:The Deadliest Weapon that Never Was", "The Black Rifle" and "US rifle M14" for starters. You may also wish to review the ALCLAD study, as well as the ACR tests from the 1980s. IIRC, Duncan long has numerous quotes in his book on future rifles.

 

[GunTech]

M2pilot.

Thanks. That is the gist I am getting. Almost $1k is more than I expected to pay for an AK, but as noted, it's just to have an AK, not for any specific purpose (other than for blasting gophers). My goto rifle is an M1A 'loaded' with a 2.5-10x Nikon Tactical. It also serves as a nice deer gun. I have a AR for carbine matches, although it might be fun to take an AK.

Thanks everyone for all the input.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

ancient_philosophy has determined that he would prefer to participate at some other firearms forum and will not be responding further, so... if we can get the thread back on track...

 

[Prince Yamato]

You need to actually read the posts. I said I wanted something suitable for plinking and shooting rodents, and to have one before they are banned. I have no idea where you are getting this post-collapse stuff

I'd just drop $400-600 on a Vector or Lancaster AK-47 in 7.62x39. I know you have .223, but just get the AK chambered in the round it was built for. No frills, iron sights, fixed stocks. You'll hit what you're aiming at. I can guarantee, an average shot will hit center of mass at 200 yards, easily.

My theory is people who say that AKs are inaccurate never took the time to adjust the iron sights. For what it's worth, I through a variable 4-12x scope on my AK-74 (used side-rail attachment). I don't think it made a difference. I still shoot the same. I used to have a red/green dot on it. I was better with the irons.

Millions of soldiers/rebels/freedom fighters/insurgents/whomever carry stock AKs for a reason: they're accurate and they work.

 

[MD_Willington]

+1 for Will at Red Stick.. he has a general Saiga conversion for about $590, and he can put a '74 style break on it for you for a bit extra...

You'd end up with a Izhmash AKM pattern rifle...

I just did my own... good enough for what I need.

oh and BTW...

there's a guy at the Saiga forum shooting clover leafs with hand loads, check out his posts in the .223 section...

 

[Roccobro]

Actually, the folder shown is fine. I mean those crappy wire side and under folders one see's on AKs that so many people think are cool.

Sounds like you've made your decision.

I'm kinda looking for an AK myself and wanted to know what's specifically "crappy" about the wire side/under folders. I'm one of those that think the Yugo underfolders look cool. But I would like to learn the facts.

Justin

 

[Ithaca37]

what's specifically "crappy" about the wire side/under folders

They don't hold up. They are uncomfortable. They are pretty much bent coat hangers.

 

[GunTech]

Just visited Red Stick. Many interesting goodies there. How do you rate Red Stick against Arsenal? I see both an AK101 and an AK-103 in 223, although the prices aren't much cheaper than Arsenal.

Unfortunately, no one stocks this type of rifle around here, so I can't really look before I buy.

 

[Father Knows Best]

My theory is people who say that AKs are inaccurate never took the time to adjust the iron sights.

I'll second that. Just last week, I took a buddy out to the range. He brought along an SKS that he said "wouldn't shoot." We put some BIG targets at 25 and 50 yards, and he couldn't get it on paper (I was plinking with my Arsenal AK at the time). He told me thought the sights were bent or crooked or something. I asked to shoot it, and immediately realized he had the rear sight set at 400 meters. I adjusted the slider, took aim, and promptly printed a nice little group of 5 shots in the center of the target at 50 yards.

 

[dstorm1911]

Roccobro, I'll steal a second here in Guntechs thread, When it comes to the underfolders While I have several examples from each country that ever produced em I've never really cared for them, they are in the collection just to complete the collection (I have examples of every AK ever produced including 3 original registered viet bring backs) however when I built the first Yugo I wasn't looking for anything different just needed a few for the collection the fixed stock versions were going to be my shooter rifles........ well I finished the first and shouldered it expecting the same flimsy loosness and the same horrible lack of cheek weld etc... but instead it was really comfortable and my eyes fell right into alignment with the sights! I lowered it and gave it a look, my partner was in the shop at the time and I handed it to him he is a big AR fan but the old guy did the same thing lowered it and gave it a second look we couldn't figure it out till he went and got a couple Norinco UFs and a Polish outa the safe..... the Yugo stock is a straight line with the bore axis and its a tad longer than the rest, how tight it is will depend on the care given to assembly all of mine are rock solid folded or extended but then I start with virgin parts and when I machine the stock holes in the rear trunion I cut em very tight and lap fit the locking pins etc...

Now after over 200 built (12 are in my personal collection) that very first M70B2 built from a used parts set (I didn't get to do the mill work on its trunions but they are still tight) It has become my constant companion while patroling our lil corner of hell, our property sits dead in the middle of the route used to smuggle drugs and illegals into Arizona) the UF works perfectly as I can leave it folded and slung across my back while running a 500 Husky 2 stroke cross country frequently jumping washes (Arizonian for a dry creek or river bed) or zig zagging through Cactus patches etc... its got just over 8,000 rnds through it now and is still as tight as the day I built it.

Its a preferance thing some like me before trying the M70B2 cannot stand Folders others love em ya needa try a few and see how they feel to you for me it makes the perfect carry around rifle as its very compact when folded I can even slip it into the saddle bags on my Harley, it carries very nice on sling but in a half second its ready to go as a full length rifle. I match it with a 5" Springfield armory XD .40 Tactical while out runnin around on the dirt bike or in the sand rail (the .40 with 165s is much flatter shooting than my .45s at extended ranges we encounter out here) plus I'm packin the gun designed by both sides in the Serbian/Croation war The Serbs designed the M70AB2 the Croations designed the original HS2000 both guns were born of combat needs and combat tough useing the best designs each could find to incorporate into their respective weapons etc.... and both have never let me down regardless how much Arizona sand gets in em or how many times they go down with me and that bike when I mis-judge the opposite banks durability while jumping washes the AK and XD both always have one in the tube but have never been a safty issue......

 

[Expertowgunner]

Get a VEPR if you can find one, but if not get a arsenal ak. They are the best aks ever imported. shot both and both are at least accurate with me anyway to about 1-2 moa at 100 yards from a bench with open sites. the vepr has adjustments for windage on the rear sight which allows for better sighting theoritically but never used it. put a eotech or aimpoint on it and rok and roll!!

 

[Expertowgunner]

quick note on underfolders.... dont get them. The thin sheet metal stock will actually BEND over time do to shooting the 7.62 and its pounding to it. why do you think the russkies and the chinese both replaced this design with a side folding tube stock. also the yugo rifles have stainless steel barrels.... chrome barrels means longer barrel life and a much more reliable weapon. not dogging the yugos, im just trying to inform the uninformed.

 

[TOU]

I thought that was Will at Redjacket, no? Anyway, Redjacket does seems to do some of the best Saiga conversions to your customized taste for reasonable prices. BTW Saiga's are considered some of the best AK's (when converted...especialy for the cost and then some) Especially...since Arsenal isn't doing the milled receivers much anymore...They are also 100% Russian and old Uncle Mikail is still consulting with IZHMASH-Saiga's. Nice rigs...I bought 7 of them to put away...in all calibers including the 12 Ga shotties.

As to folding stocks...I sure like an ACE I have on my Daewoo DR-200 but am considering putting one or two on my Saiga's. I like the Arsenal style, but unless you have the locking latch on the side for that style folder (PITA to install post...but Arsenals already have them) they are a pain when folded and tend to flop. I personally like the folders to lock up solid the way the ACE's do when folded or open. JMHO Now...if some one in the US would put a locking mechanism on the hinge...that would be the cat's meow.

 

[MD_Willington]

Red Stick Firearms LLC, Home of Red Jacket Firearms...

Says so right at the top of their web page...

html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<title>Welcome to Red Stick Firearms, Home of Red Jacket Firearms</title>
<style>

Will's handle at the Saiga Forum and elsewhere is "Red Jacket"

 

[TOU]

Cool...thx for the clarification...it always confused me.

 

[MudPuppy]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=290869

I built mine as a fixed stock and love it (its the one in the middle).

 

[nalioth]

Red Stick is english for Baton Rouge, where Will works.

 

[dawgtraxx]

I already have her pegged as soup pirate when the SHTF. She's dead meat

now that is funny..LMAO

 

[MIL-DOT]

prince yamato took the words right out of my mouth.......
"I'd just drop $400-600 on a Vector or Lancaster AK-47 in 7.62x39. I know you have .223, but just get the AK chambered in the round it was built for. No frills, iron sights, fixed stocks. You'll hit what you're aiming at. I can guarantee, an average shot will hit center of mass at 200 yards, easily. "

i got a lancaster x39 romy G model several weeks ago, and am most happy with it. chrome bore,matching serial numbers, head spaced and test fired, parkerizing then gun-kote finish, great job on the firniture, for $499. shot straight as an arrow right out of the box.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

"quick note on underfolders.... dont get them. The thin sheet metal stock will actually BEND over time do to shooting the 7.62 and its pounding to it. why do you think the russkies and the chinese both replaced this design with a side folding tube stock."

BS! It's cheaper and easier to produce a side folder than the underfolder. My 7.62x39 AK came with an underfolder 'n it's goin' on 22 years of bein' dragged from pillar to post w/no change to the geometry of the stock at all. The AK doesn't have that much recoil.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Just visited Red Stick. Many interesting goodies there. How do you rate Red Stick against Arsenal? I see both an AK101 and an AK-103 in 223, although the prices aren't much cheaper than Arsenal.

Has anyone suggested checking Krebs Custom Rifles yet? If you're looking for an accurate AK pattern rifle, and can handle their price tag (basically AR-15 sort of prices), they're the way to go. Easy to deal with, as well.

 

[AndyC]

I quite like underfolders, actually (not all of the stocks are fragile), but if I had the choice again I wouldn't use one for business. My reasons are: the stock is more cumbersome to deploy from the folded position as opposed to a side-folder - and you can forget about deploying the stock with a drum-mag attached.