Recommendation for a revolver with a light DA trigger
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BlindJustice
Member
SMith & Wesson K-frame - S&W got it right back in 1899 with their
first model hand ejector, that became the Military & Police aka Model 10
Guess I should read the body of your post, instead of just
responding to the subject line. My first handgun was a Model 18
6 shot .22 LR with adj. rear sight. mild recoil of course
with the .22 LR.
R-
first model hand ejector, that became the Military & Police aka Model 10
Guess I should read the body of your post, instead of just
responding to the subject line. My first handgun was a Model 18
6 shot .22 LR with adj. rear sight. mild recoil of course
with the .22 LR.
R-
BlindJustice
Member
Well, you didn't specify what chambering you're looking for... however,
the medium K-frame can be lightened a bit with it's leaf main spring. The smaller J-frame with it's coil spring can't be lowered too much just
smoothed out.
FWIW - I had the Master Revolver Action Job performed on my N-frame
625 - very smooth, DA, and SA is light like the proverbial break of a glass rod.
that is a $140 action job, including the trigger, and polishing internals, as well
as chamferig the chambers.
A used Model 18 in .22 LR or a Model 15 in .38 SPecial are great
both having ramp front, adj. rear, and polished blued carbon steel,
\with the small wood grips conforming to the square butt frame, on the
used market $400 and up depending on condition. OR if you go
to the MOdel 19, it's a .357 Mag. you can fire the milder .38 SPecial in
same format as the 15 w/rear adj. sights.
The new offerings the Model 18 and 17 clasics are even more than
the 617 stainless steel model that is $800+ msrp Glad I got my
617 2 years ago for $625 - but it's a keeper it's just so FUN to shoot.
unlike the older 6 shot models the 617s are now fitted with
10 shot cyl.
Randall
the medium K-frame can be lightened a bit with it's leaf main spring. The smaller J-frame with it's coil spring can't be lowered too much just
smoothed out.
FWIW - I had the Master Revolver Action Job performed on my N-frame
625 - very smooth, DA, and SA is light like the proverbial break of a glass rod.
that is a $140 action job, including the trigger, and polishing internals, as well
as chamferig the chambers.
A used Model 18 in .22 LR or a Model 15 in .38 SPecial are great
both having ramp front, adj. rear, and polished blued carbon steel,
\with the small wood grips conforming to the square butt frame, on the
used market $400 and up depending on condition. OR if you go
to the MOdel 19, it's a .357 Mag. you can fire the milder .38 SPecial in
same format as the 15 w/rear adj. sights.
The new offerings the Model 18 and 17 clasics are even more than
the 617 stainless steel model that is $800+ msrp Glad I got my
617 2 years ago for $625 - but it's a keeper it's just so FUN to shoot.
unlike the older 6 shot models the 617s are now fitted with
10 shot cyl.
Randall
Another vote for K frame S&Ws. Nothing else comes close. Even out of the box they are good, and if worked over by a pro they are unbeatable.
My personal choice would be a Model 15; although Model 10s, 18s, 19s, and 66s are equally good. As luck would have it I have all those minus a 15. My son got it away from me and won't give it back.
My personal choice would be a Model 15; although Model 10s, 18s, 19s, and 66s are equally good. As luck would have it I have all those minus a 15. My son got it away from me and won't give it back.
As others noted, a S&W k-frame is a very nice revolver, but if this is to be a range/HD gun, the little extra heft of the L-frames (e.g., models 586 or 686) helps soak up recoil a bit, which may or may not matter to you or your wife.
A lighter DA trigger? Sure, that's possible. Enjoyable, even. At some point you get into ignition reliability and trigger reset issues, but if it's kept reasonable (my guesstimate is a 7-8lb lower limit) , and done in conjunction with a good action job (more important than pull weight), it's a nice indulgence. That being said, though, one of the beautiful things about DA revolvers is the ease with which you can dry fire at home to develop a smooth trigger pull and finger strength. After some "training" and familiarity with the trigger, you may find you don't need the action job.
While a .22LR revolver is an excellent training piece, and I'm a big believer in (and user of) them, if your primary consideration is a light pull, you'd probably be better off going with a centerfire and having an action job done, since reliability becomes an even bigger issue with rimfires when the action is lightened.
BTW, here's some good reading on the topic:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/good_trigger.html
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/action_performance.html
A lighter DA trigger? Sure, that's possible. Enjoyable, even. At some point you get into ignition reliability and trigger reset issues, but if it's kept reasonable (my guesstimate is a 7-8lb lower limit) , and done in conjunction with a good action job (more important than pull weight), it's a nice indulgence. That being said, though, one of the beautiful things about DA revolvers is the ease with which you can dry fire at home to develop a smooth trigger pull and finger strength. After some "training" and familiarity with the trigger, you may find you don't need the action job.
While a .22LR revolver is an excellent training piece, and I'm a big believer in (and user of) them, if your primary consideration is a light pull, you'd probably be better off going with a centerfire and having an action job done, since reliability becomes an even bigger issue with rimfires when the action is lightened.
BTW, here's some good reading on the topic:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/good_trigger.html
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/action_performance.html
Another vote for the S&W M&P, but I will restrict mine to pre-1948 "Long Action" types. These were dramatically smoother than the later altered "short action" type. They are easily distinguished by the trigger shape. Reducing the recoil spring weight or the mainspring weight of the "long action" K's can give an amazing trigger without resulting in suspect moves like stoning on the hammer/trigger hooks and sears - this is a bad move too many would-be "professional" action jobs take.
This is very, very good advice. Practice and some breaking-in of the action are vastly more important than any "action job."
Here is the tell tale sign of a long-action pistol. This is a scrappy WWI era N-frame, but it is the same style. A saavy shopper can find the long action guns for the same price as a later one - the general used gun market has started to see the value of older S&Ws, but hasn't yet been educated/experienced enough to differentiate some of the nuances:
MrBorland said:
This is very, very good advice. Practice and some breaking-in of the action are vastly more important than any "action job."
Here is the tell tale sign of a long-action pistol. This is a scrappy WWI era N-frame, but it is the same style. A saavy shopper can find the long action guns for the same price as a later one - the general used gun market has started to see the value of older S&Ws, but hasn't yet been educated/experienced enough to differentiate some of the nuances:
1KPerDay
Member
My Colt Officers Target model has the nicest, smoothest DA trigger of any of my revolvers. YMMV.
Ah... Oro... Sir...well to be blunt, the arrow isn't pointed at the revolver's trigger. 
But we are in full agreement on the recommendation that those Smith & Wesson K-frame Military & Police revolvers made from about 1918 to 1947 had the best out-of-the-box double action trigger pulls ever available. The very best were made between 1945 and 1947 because they had a better hammer block safety that made them completely safe to carry with the cylinder fully loaded. Later Smith & Wesson’s were made with a revised action that made them easier to thumb-cock, but sacrificed some of the superior double-action pull.
They will be found in both round and square butt styles, and current aftermarket stocks fit the older frames just fine. Most common barrel lengths are 2, 4, 5 and 6 inches.
So what are the drawbacks? None that I really care about, but extensive use of high-end Plus-P loads isn’t recommended because they may increase the possibility of ca condition called end-shake; that causes the cylinder to move in a back & forth plane (as opposed to rotational movement. Some parts are getting hard to find, but serious repairs are seldom necessary unless someone has abused or tinkered with it.
The Old Fuff is never one to blab top-secret stuff…
But the serial number on these revolvers was always stamped on the butt. Those made up to 1942 have plain numbers. Those made from 1942 through 1944 have a “V” letter prefix. Those made in 1945 for the military services have the improved hammer block and a “SV” prefix. Long action commercial revolvers made after the war will have an “S” prefix. Other letter prefixes will have the post-war short-action. There are also some short-action guns in the S 900,000 range.
But we are in full agreement on the recommendation that those Smith & Wesson K-frame Military & Police revolvers made from about 1918 to 1947 had the best out-of-the-box double action trigger pulls ever available. The very best were made between 1945 and 1947 because they had a better hammer block safety that made them completely safe to carry with the cylinder fully loaded. Later Smith & Wesson’s were made with a revised action that made them easier to thumb-cock, but sacrificed some of the superior double-action pull.
They will be found in both round and square butt styles, and current aftermarket stocks fit the older frames just fine. Most common barrel lengths are 2, 4, 5 and 6 inches.
So what are the drawbacks? None that I really care about, but extensive use of high-end Plus-P loads isn’t recommended because they may increase the possibility of ca condition called end-shake; that causes the cylinder to move in a back & forth plane (as opposed to rotational movement. Some parts are getting hard to find, but serious repairs are seldom necessary unless someone has abused or tinkered with it.
The Old Fuff is never one to blab top-secret stuff…
But the serial number on these revolvers was always stamped on the butt. Those made up to 1942 have plain numbers. Those made from 1942 through 1944 have a “V” letter prefix. Those made in 1945 for the military services have the improved hammer block and a “SV” prefix. Long action commercial revolvers made after the war will have an “S” prefix. Other letter prefixes will have the post-war short-action. There are also some short-action guns in the S 900,000 range.
wnycollector
Member
Yet another vote for the pre war long action M&P. I have a 1924 5" model that exhibits the classic "breaks like glass" DA trigger.
Virginian
Member
Get a Taurus 85 in 38 Special, or a 605 in .357, and a Wolff spring kit. Change the trigger return to the lightest one, the hammer spring to the medium one, and shoot the heck out of it. In my opinion, a S&W also benefits greatly from some changes, particularly a lighter trigger return spring.
Or, find a good used Colt.
Or, find a good used Colt.
Alternatives as I see it are (1) get a late model S&W and send it to Randy Lee at Apex Tactical; he does both game guns and carry having turned out a 66 with a 6 pound trigger ( http://www.apextactical.com/ ), (2) go the old long action Smith route and tune it, (3) get and older medium frame leaf spring Colt and have it tuned as the long action should allow a lighter trigger or (4) get a Ruger medium frame and send it to Randy Lee.
Lee can get away with lighter actions in that he lightens the hammer allowing lighter springs.
Lee can get away with lighter actions in that he lightens the hammer allowing lighter springs.
I agree S&Ws have lighter trigger pulls than most other revolvers but you are forgeting a very important factor more important than light. That's smooth. A smooth trigger is more important to good double action shooting. S&Ws are generally smooth and lighter than others. I find Ruger triggers smooth but not necessarily light.
Ed McGivern did all he did with stock springs in his S&Ws.
I would much rather have a 16 pound smooth trigger than a 10 pound that is gritty. Hand and finger strength can easily be developed even if your 4-10 and weigh 85 pounds.
Ed McGivern did all he did with stock springs in his S&Ws.
I would much rather have a 16 pound smooth trigger than a 10 pound that is gritty. Hand and finger strength can easily be developed even if your 4-10 and weigh 85 pounds.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Sadly, it is long gone, as is the gunsmith, but an old Colt Python with a custom "DA only" action job by the late Fred Sadowski of "300" Gunsmiths in Denver, CO was the best ever double action I have ever experienced. Wish Mr. Sadowski was still with us. If you ever find a gun with his work, snatch it up.
"Sadly, it is long gone, as is the gunsmith, but an old Colt Python with a custom "DA only" action job by the late Fred Sadowski of "300" Gunsmiths in Denver, CO was the best ever double action I have ever experienced. Wish Mr. Sadowski was still with us. If you ever find a gun with his work, snatch it up."
The predecessor gun to the Python can usually be found a lot less expensively. Sadly, Sadowski, Moran,Sherman (he concentrates on rifles the last I knew) and Jungkind are gone now. Still, there are Grant Cunningham and Cylinder & Slide that do master tunes. The Python I really miss is a Walt Sherman Roller Action one I had. It was both very light and smooth. Also had a Sherman Roller Action N frame Mtn. Gun that was nice (on his roller actions he retained the single action unlike C&S). However, a "master tune" runs in the $250+ range by these if I recall whereas the Ruger or S&W is a lot less.
Over on the Ruger Forum there was a member who had a GP-100 tuned by Randy Lee for carry which came back with a DA around 7.5 lbs as I recall. My tuned GP is in the same range. My L frame 686 Mtn. Gun is around 7.25 lbs being tuned by Alan Tanaka. They both work with magnum primers.
If you are looking for a .22 LR my tuned S&W 18 runs a bit over 8 lbs DA; as noted the rimfires require a heavier action to fire the cartridge. Further, as the cartridge does not have the mass of the others they should be firmly seated in the chamber or hammer energy will be expended moving the cartridge forward and may misfire. Some over at Brian Enos Forum claim they can get their K frame .22's DA down in the high 6 lb range. I would think it would be very ammo specific.
The predecessor gun to the Python can usually be found a lot less expensively. Sadly, Sadowski, Moran,Sherman (he concentrates on rifles the last I knew) and Jungkind are gone now. Still, there are Grant Cunningham and Cylinder & Slide that do master tunes. The Python I really miss is a Walt Sherman Roller Action one I had. It was both very light and smooth. Also had a Sherman Roller Action N frame Mtn. Gun that was nice (on his roller actions he retained the single action unlike C&S). However, a "master tune" runs in the $250+ range by these if I recall whereas the Ruger or S&W is a lot less.
Over on the Ruger Forum there was a member who had a GP-100 tuned by Randy Lee for carry which came back with a DA around 7.5 lbs as I recall. My tuned GP is in the same range. My L frame 686 Mtn. Gun is around 7.25 lbs being tuned by Alan Tanaka. They both work with magnum primers.
If you are looking for a .22 LR my tuned S&W 18 runs a bit over 8 lbs DA; as noted the rimfires require a heavier action to fire the cartridge. Further, as the cartridge does not have the mass of the others they should be firmly seated in the chamber or hammer energy will be expended moving the cartridge forward and may misfire. Some over at Brian Enos Forum claim they can get their K frame .22's DA down in the high 6 lb range. I would think it would be very ammo specific.
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