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springmom nailed it
Post #22
Post #22
Recommendations for a noob
- Thread starter papaholmz
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Tamlin
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My mother worked as a security guard for an armored car company for a while (yes, little grey-haired grandmother type). She carried a Rossi 357 snubbie because "it fit her hand well." I shot it a few times and HATED it. (FYI, she never had to shoot it in the line of duty). I couldn't hit the target, and it had recoil from hell. Because my guns were all semi-automatics, I was convinced that revolvers and I just didn't get along.
Anyway, several years later, I purchased a Ruger GP100 (.357) with a 4" barrel. LOVE it! The weight of the gun plus the barrel length makes a HUGE difference in recoil and accuracy. Shooting .38s through it is like shooting a 9 mm, but I've come to really like the recoil of shooting full load magnums. I would not recommend it for a beginner, however. If you are set on a revolver, I do recommend getting the .357 gun, but limiting it to shooting .38s through it. At least at first. Get used to it, then try a cylinder full of .357 magnums, just for fun. You can always keep with the .38s. And I wouldn't get a snubbie - they are good for accuracy up to 10 feet or so, but a 4" barrel will get you decent accuracy out much farther than that.
Anyway, several years later, I purchased a Ruger GP100 (.357) with a 4" barrel. LOVE it! The weight of the gun plus the barrel length makes a HUGE difference in recoil and accuracy. Shooting .38s through it is like shooting a 9 mm, but I've come to really like the recoil of shooting full load magnums. I would not recommend it for a beginner, however. If you are set on a revolver, I do recommend getting the .357 gun, but limiting it to shooting .38s through it. At least at first. Get used to it, then try a cylinder full of .357 magnums, just for fun. You can always keep with the .38s. And I wouldn't get a snubbie - they are good for accuracy up to 10 feet or so, but a 4" barrel will get you decent accuracy out much farther than that.
22-rimfire
Member
You need to look at both the light weight Smith 38's and the steel framed Smith Model 36. A Colt Detective Special would be nearly perfect if you lean toward carrying in a holster.
Steel framed guns have less felt recoil than the lightweight aluminum or titanitum framed guns.
I have a 442 and you certainly know when you shoot it. It is no beginners revolver unless you really don't plan on shooting it.
In genaral, I support learning to shoot with a 22LR revolver and stepping up to the 38spl. You have to shoot to learn how to shoot and the 22LR is the perfect route to developing the skills necessary to shoot any firearm.
Steel framed guns have less felt recoil than the lightweight aluminum or titanitum framed guns.
I have a 442 and you certainly know when you shoot it. It is no beginners revolver unless you really don't plan on shooting it.
In genaral, I support learning to shoot with a 22LR revolver and stepping up to the 38spl. You have to shoot to learn how to shoot and the 22LR is the perfect route to developing the skills necessary to shoot any firearm.
Maybe my mistake will prove helpful to you.
I recently took a CCW course and bought a light, short DA-only .38 with laser grip. I am not a beginner but I am new to the snubbie. No, that's not the mistake.
My earlier handgun shooting experience involved medium-sized and larger service and match revolvers and semi-automatics, in calibers ranging from .22 to .45, fired at a target range or at tin cans. When I was offered chances to shoot a nickel plated Colt Detective Special and a plated .25 Browning at the target in the bright sun I couldn't hit well with either one.
However, there's a world of difference between getting some quick shots in the middle of a torso at seven yards or less and putting holes in the ten ring of a target at the range. And if you can't conceal the gun, what's the point? So--for concealed carry, at least without a jacket, you're going to end up with something small and relatively light, and I predict you won't ever be able to shoot fine target groups with it.
I would stay away from the really light ones--decide how much weight you will realistically be able to carry and then choose--and from magnums. Where I live, the instructors strongly advise staying away from guns with exposed hammers for CC (snags, and advice to never cock the gun in a self-defense situation). And although I have years of experience with semiautomatics, I settled on a revolver for reliability and simplicity. By the way, I would never choose that DA-only light snubbie for anything other than concealed carry. For home defense, a larger, heavier gun would be a much better choice.
I agree with Springmom that you would benefit from getting some experience shooting something easier to control than a snub barreled revolver. A .22LR would obviously be the most economical choice. Just keep in mind the difference between range shooting and SD.
Here's the mistake: when concealed carry became permissible here, I went to a store and looked at small handguns. It was clear to me that a slightly longer barrel, steel frame, exposed hammer, and target sights would greatly help controllability, and I wrote a check. I'm not sorry I did, but when my leather coat came off for the season and I took the concealed carry course, I realized that (1) the compromise didn't work well for concealed carry, and (2) I had not really understood the differences between SD conditions and range shooting. Moral of the story? Wait until you've taken the course to buy! And, of course, try the gun first.
I hope you find this helpful.
I recently took a CCW course and bought a light, short DA-only .38 with laser grip. I am not a beginner but I am new to the snubbie. No, that's not the mistake.
My earlier handgun shooting experience involved medium-sized and larger service and match revolvers and semi-automatics, in calibers ranging from .22 to .45, fired at a target range or at tin cans. When I was offered chances to shoot a nickel plated Colt Detective Special and a plated .25 Browning at the target in the bright sun I couldn't hit well with either one.
However, there's a world of difference between getting some quick shots in the middle of a torso at seven yards or less and putting holes in the ten ring of a target at the range. And if you can't conceal the gun, what's the point? So--for concealed carry, at least without a jacket, you're going to end up with something small and relatively light, and I predict you won't ever be able to shoot fine target groups with it.
I would stay away from the really light ones--decide how much weight you will realistically be able to carry and then choose--and from magnums. Where I live, the instructors strongly advise staying away from guns with exposed hammers for CC (snags, and advice to never cock the gun in a self-defense situation). And although I have years of experience with semiautomatics, I settled on a revolver for reliability and simplicity. By the way, I would never choose that DA-only light snubbie for anything other than concealed carry. For home defense, a larger, heavier gun would be a much better choice.
I agree with Springmom that you would benefit from getting some experience shooting something easier to control than a snub barreled revolver. A .22LR would obviously be the most economical choice. Just keep in mind the difference between range shooting and SD.
Here's the mistake: when concealed carry became permissible here, I went to a store and looked at small handguns. It was clear to me that a slightly longer barrel, steel frame, exposed hammer, and target sights would greatly help controllability, and I wrote a check. I'm not sorry I did, but when my leather coat came off for the season and I took the concealed carry course, I realized that (1) the compromise didn't work well for concealed carry, and (2) I had not really understood the differences between SD conditions and range shooting. Moral of the story? Wait until you've taken the course to buy! And, of course, try the gun first.
I hope you find this helpful.
mgkdrgn
Member
"is there anything else I need to consider when purchasing my revolver?"
Yes.
This new job. Your new employer may have "opinions" about you carrying while on the job or on company property. Opinions that include the term "immediate termination".
You might want to check that out as well.
Yes.
This new job. Your new employer may have "opinions" about you carrying while on the job or on company property. Opinions that include the term "immediate termination".
You might want to check that out as well.
How is your budget?
Can you buy a .22 to practice on while you decide? You might go through several gun/ammo/holster combinations before you find something you can carry that suits your body, style of dress, and ability to shoot. Even someone who has been shooting handguns for years will run into this when trying to carry for the first time.
While you're training on basic shooting skills with the .22, you will probably find the chance to try a lot of different handguns.
Remember everybody, he's new to handguns in general, and one size does not fit all.
Unless you need to start carrying ASAP?
Can you buy a .22 to practice on while you decide? You might go through several gun/ammo/holster combinations before you find something you can carry that suits your body, style of dress, and ability to shoot. Even someone who has been shooting handguns for years will run into this when trying to carry for the first time.
While you're training on basic shooting skills with the .22, you will probably find the chance to try a lot of different handguns.
Remember everybody, he's new to handguns in general, and one size does not fit all.
Unless you need to start carrying ASAP?
C-grunt
Member
I would advise to not get the little light weight snub nosed revolvers as your first gun. It is a hard gun to learn on and has some stout recoil. This could lead to bad habbits like flinching or maybe not practicing with it much. A slightly larger gun made of steel would be a far better choice. Now Im not talking about a full size like a S&W 686. A good medium size gun like a Ruger GP100 or the S&W counterparts, dont know the ones in that size.
You can still conceal a larger gun with a good in the waist band (IWB) holster. I carry my duty Glock 22 IWB with no problem. A good holster and belt can go a long way.
You can still conceal a larger gun with a good in the waist band (IWB) holster. I carry my duty Glock 22 IWB with no problem. A good holster and belt can go a long way.
Stainz
Member
I have a different take. If you need a CCW, you should get a snubby, like the S&W 642, first. You can get shootable and effective ammo, like 148gr lead full wadcutters meant for target use. They will be effective, yet not offer +P-level recoil. The greatest requirement is to get some proper instruction first - try local ranges and PDs for help there. The fundamental lemma in self protection is you must have it with you - not locked away at home. If it's too big and awkward, you'll leave it home - at the wrong time. You must legally carry it!
If you want to shoot for enjoyment, get a separate device for that. You could, if it is a .38 or so, use it for a home defender, too. But - a personal protection CCW must be carried - choose wisely there. Admittedly, my wife carries a .32 ACP Seecamp, not a revolver. She has a revolver on her side of the bed - and for her car. But, to get something small enough for her to 'carry' regularly, it had to be, gasp, a bottom-feeder. YMMV.
Stainz
If you want to shoot for enjoyment, get a separate device for that. You could, if it is a .38 or so, use it for a home defender, too. But - a personal protection CCW must be carried - choose wisely there. Admittedly, my wife carries a .32 ACP Seecamp, not a revolver. She has a revolver on her side of the bed - and for her car. But, to get something small enough for her to 'carry' regularly, it had to be, gasp, a bottom-feeder. YMMV.
Stainz
easyrider604
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Papaholmes, welcome to TGR.
You are on the right track with a your decision to go with a snub .38 spl.
OTOH, I think a .357 magnum/.38 spl is a better choice because this caliber will give you ammo flexibility, anywhere from mild .38 wadcutter target loads, to full-on 357 magnum defensive loads if necessary.
What gun? Any Smith Wesson J or K Frame that fits your hand but I will avoid the lightweights for now. However my personal choice for a first revolver, would be the Ruger SP-101. Rugged, reliable and usually as accurate as any other snubby out there. Cheaper than S&W. Weighs enough to shoot full 357 magnum once in a while, if you turn out to be recoil shy.
I will not do anything to it except to try wear and it out with many thousand practice rounds, 38 spl and 357 mag in 20 to 1 ratio or higher.
You are on the right track with a your decision to go with a snub .38 spl.
OTOH, I think a .357 magnum/.38 spl is a better choice because this caliber will give you ammo flexibility, anywhere from mild .38 wadcutter target loads, to full-on 357 magnum defensive loads if necessary.
What gun? Any Smith Wesson J or K Frame that fits your hand but I will avoid the lightweights for now. However my personal choice for a first revolver, would be the Ruger SP-101. Rugged, reliable and usually as accurate as any other snubby out there. Cheaper than S&W. Weighs enough to shoot full 357 magnum once in a while, if you turn out to be recoil shy.
I will not do anything to it except to try wear and it out with many thousand practice rounds, 38 spl and 357 mag in 20 to 1 ratio or higher.
bflobill_69
Member.
Very good advice from the THR'ers so far...
...one thing I would like to add from my experience, also being relatively new to handguns (less than a year since I bought my first):
Shoot everything you can get your hands on - freinds, family - the only way to really know what's best for you is to actually take the gun out to range and see how it feels and whether or not you can get any real accuracy with it.
Be patient - your groupings will improve with more rounds.
A used S & W revolver or Ruger Revolver would probably treat you the best from a reliability/durability standpoint. I am partial to S & W's linear triggers - love em.
Welcome to the world of Hand guns!
Bflobill_69
...one thing I would like to add from my experience, also being relatively new to handguns (less than a year since I bought my first):
Shoot everything you can get your hands on - freinds, family - the only way to really know what's best for you is to actually take the gun out to range and see how it feels and whether or not you can get any real accuracy with it.
Be patient - your groupings will improve with more rounds.
A used S & W revolver or Ruger Revolver would probably treat you the best from a reliability/durability standpoint. I am partial to S & W's linear triggers - love em.
Welcome to the world of Hand guns!
Bflobill_69
Some of the advice may seem contradictory, but here are some common threads that match with my experience:
C-grunt is quite correct in saying that in general, a too-light snubby "is a hard gun to learn on and has some stout recoil."
Stainz is also right in saying "If you need a CCW, you should get a snubby, like the S&W 642, first. You can get shootable and effective ammo...[that] ... will be effective, yet not offer +P-level recoil." And in saying "The fundamental lemma in self protection is you must have it with you - not locked away at home. If it's too big and awkward, you'll leave it home - at the wrong time."
And icecorps nails it in saying "You might go through several gun/ammo/holster combinations before you find something you can carry that suits your body, style of dress, and ability to shoot. Even someone who has been shooting handguns for years will run into this when trying to carry for the first time."
I bought a somewhat larger gun first and found afterwards that I could not reasonably keep it concealed under summer casual wear. I ended up with a 642 with laser grip. While there may be no finer service revolver than, say, a Ruger GP-100, I could not possibly carry one concealed except under a winter coat, which would only stay on out of doors.
So--figure out what you can carry and how before buying--do as these fine people say, not as I did. And practice.
The idea of also getting a .22 is a great one.
If you do buy a different gun for fun and practice, you will enjoy it, but don't forget that the concealed handgun is for a different purpose--quick hits on a larger area at short range. My instructor advised practicing on a blank 8 1/2 X 11 page at 20 feet. Others may have different advice.
C-grunt is quite correct in saying that in general, a too-light snubby "is a hard gun to learn on and has some stout recoil."
Stainz is also right in saying "If you need a CCW, you should get a snubby, like the S&W 642, first. You can get shootable and effective ammo...[that] ... will be effective, yet not offer +P-level recoil." And in saying "The fundamental lemma in self protection is you must have it with you - not locked away at home. If it's too big and awkward, you'll leave it home - at the wrong time."
And icecorps nails it in saying "You might go through several gun/ammo/holster combinations before you find something you can carry that suits your body, style of dress, and ability to shoot. Even someone who has been shooting handguns for years will run into this when trying to carry for the first time."
I bought a somewhat larger gun first and found afterwards that I could not reasonably keep it concealed under summer casual wear. I ended up with a 642 with laser grip. While there may be no finer service revolver than, say, a Ruger GP-100, I could not possibly carry one concealed except under a winter coat, which would only stay on out of doors.
So--figure out what you can carry and how before buying--do as these fine people say, not as I did. And practice.
The idea of also getting a .22 is a great one.
If you do buy a different gun for fun and practice, you will enjoy it, but don't forget that the concealed handgun is for a different purpose--quick hits on a larger area at short range. My instructor advised practicing on a blank 8 1/2 X 11 page at 20 feet. Others may have different advice.
JCMAG
Member
My first gun was a K-22. My second gun, following by less than a month, was a 442.
I don't really know if shooting the K-22 first really made a difference with my 442. It was a whole other critter altogether and it took a lot of practice to even get on paper.
But once I figured it out the little babe is a dream to carry. I wouldn't mind trading it in though -- for one without the lock.
Getting a .22 will make a difference in your overall handgun accuracy. For combat shooting with a snub revolver maybe not as much as a lot of light, medium, and hot .38 ammo.
DO NOT make my mistake and buy 1,000 rounds of .38 +P only to realize, 200 rounds in, that maybe you'd be happier with standard pressure. It's not the recoil, but it shoots outstandingly high at short ranges (in excess of 7 inches at 10 yards...).
The story is, get what you want and practice with that gun. A snub is a great choice and I hope you love yours as much as I love mine.
I don't really know if shooting the K-22 first really made a difference with my 442. It was a whole other critter altogether and it took a lot of practice to even get on paper.
But once I figured it out the little babe is a dream to carry. I wouldn't mind trading it in though -- for one without the lock.
Getting a .22 will make a difference in your overall handgun accuracy. For combat shooting with a snub revolver maybe not as much as a lot of light, medium, and hot .38 ammo.
DO NOT make my mistake and buy 1,000 rounds of .38 +P only to realize, 200 rounds in, that maybe you'd be happier with standard pressure. It's not the recoil, but it shoots outstandingly high at short ranges (in excess of 7 inches at 10 yards...).
The story is, get what you want and practice with that gun. A snub is a great choice and I hope you love yours as much as I love mine.
Ok, I took the advise to go try different guns first. My dad has an old Hi-Standard .22 revolver with about a 4" barrel. I've shot it quite a few times of the last few days and I'm getting comfortable firing a weapon and getting much more accurate. Of course the .22 has almost no recoil.
After about 100 rounds of the .22 my brother let me shoot his Glock .40 semi-auto which needless to say has much more recoil. The recoil from the .40, even though more than the .22, was not too much for me to handle and I was decently accurate with it at 25 yards.
So, I decided to take some of the advise on this thread and purchased a S&W 642 and so far I am pleased with it. I'll hopefully be getting the laser sights for it soon.
Thanks for all of your advise.
-papaholmz
After about 100 rounds of the .22 my brother let me shoot his Glock .40 semi-auto which needless to say has much more recoil. The recoil from the .40, even though more than the .22, was not too much for me to handle and I was decently accurate with it at 25 yards.
So, I decided to take some of the advise on this thread and purchased a S&W 642 and so far I am pleased with it. I'll hopefully be getting the laser sights for it soon.
Thanks for all of your advise.
-papaholmz
Ghost Walker
Member
Just read your last post, so nevermind. Good luck with your new revolver!
lee n. field
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What job would that be? Your boss, corporate, HR, whatever, is cool with this?
Ghost Walker
Member
I'm a retired real estate broker; and, you have my sympathies. For the neighborhoods you're going to be collecting rents in you bought the wrong gun. Suggest you assign that 642 to backup duty and get yourself a nice high capacity Glock asap!
(Oh, yeah, want some really good advice? Never collect rents alone - Never!)
JCMAG
Member
Or you could skip the glock and keep the theme alive with a .357.
Another option might be a "New York Reload" (two five shot revolvers).
The suggestion of not going alone seems very wise indeed. Consider a case of self defense where all of the witnesses are friends or family of the deceased!
Just for fun: years ago I had a friend who had once gotten a job as a debt collector. He went to see someone who had not made payment son a television (years before my parents got one). The subject listed her occupation as "actress" but she practiced the world's oldest profession. She approached my friend and said, "son, why don't you get a respectable job?". That's what convinced him to go to college. No implication here, just thought you might get a laugh out of it.
The suggestion of not going alone seems very wise indeed. Consider a case of self defense where all of the witnesses are friends or family of the deceased!
Just for fun: years ago I had a friend who had once gotten a job as a debt collector. He went to see someone who had not made payment son a television (years before my parents got one). The subject listed her occupation as "actress" but she practiced the world's oldest profession. She approached my friend and said, "son, why don't you get a respectable job?". That's what convinced him to go to college. No implication here, just thought you might get a laugh out of it.
Ghost Walker
Member
Many years ago I used to collect delinquent rents for my slumlord father-in-law. (He knew what was involved and preferred to send me out to do his dirty work with the, 'special' tenants.) It's hard! Some of them are elderly people of little means; others are drug addicts who always seem to be desperate and strung out. No matter what you do, or how you approach the problem, you're always at the same disadvantage: It's very easy for them to get close to you and enter your personal space because, after all, you're there to see them! Sometimes it felt like a contest between who was stronger, and who was weaker. If certain of them think you're vulnerable, all they have to do is grab you by the throat and pull you into the apartment. Once the door closes behind you who's to say what really happened?
Even when you collect the rent (or a portion thereof) you still have to make it back down the hall, out of the building, and all the way to your car. Chances are the whole neighborhood knows who you are, why you're there, and what you're probably carrying. (Money!)
Needless to say I felt an enormous sense of relief when I finally got rid of his duplicitous spoiled-rotten daughter, quit working for the man, and got on with my life. Fortunately for me neither the father nor the daughter caused any permanent harm. One of the lessons I took away from that destructive relationship is to never attempt to collect rents (delinquent or otherwise) by yourself.
Remember: They can stand right next to you, or walk right up to you, and get in your face as easily as holding out what appears to be the rent money. The proximity advantage, along with the first move, is entirely theirs! About the best you can do is to always bring someone else with you on the 15th. As I'm sure many a landlord has found out: A pistol, alone, might not help until after it's already too late.
mgkdrgn
Member
Oh,
Well in that case forget the pistols ... you want a shotgun. Short stock, short barrel and a sling so you wear it under a jacket. ;-)
Good Luck!
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