Mike128
Member
When you buy a gun from an FFL and fill out form 4473, is there a permanent record of the purchase with your name attached? How is it filed by your FFL in his logbook? Does the goverment keep a copy? Thanks
Record on gun purchases?
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The Drew
Member
the 4473 is kept on record with the dealer. If the dealer goes out of business he must turn his records in to the BATFE...
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
The FFL keeps the form in his log book for at least 20 years. The form is not sent to the .gov. If he goes out of business be fore that time, it is turned over to the BATFE (.gov). The BATFE can inspect his book any time and has been known to make wholesale copies of them on some occasions.
That is a fairly permanent record of your purchase, but it is not supposed to be in the hands of the .gov.
That is a fairly permanent record of your purchase, but it is not supposed to be in the hands of the .gov.
Mike128
Member
So buy used, or have some kind of unfortanate accident because there is a registry already. Sneaky little devils. 
Isn't it also a law that gunsmiths have to keep records of all the guns they work on and send it in to the BATF if requested? Someone mentioned this to me but not a reliable source.
Isn't it also a law that gunsmiths have to keep records of all the guns they work on and send it in to the BATF if requested? Someone mentioned this to me but not a reliable source.
Lone_Gunman
Member
If you buy gun through an FFL, they have to do a background check on you in most cases (NICS check).
Do you really believe that data is being deleted as required by law?
Do you really believe that data is being deleted as required by law?
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
LG, the only information that NICS is given about the gun you are buying is "handgun" or "long gun." The other details are only on the 4473.
atlctyslkr
Member
If you are really paranoid that THEY will come for you guns then just make some phoney bill of sale documents showing you transferred your guns to random non existant people. Be sure to date them back a few years or better yet go through your local paper and "transfer" them to someone you find in the obituary section. Get a couple of your gun buddies together and sign some chickenscratch signatures on your fake bills of sale for each other. This of course will only work in states where guns aren't really registered.
atlctyslkr: That Sounds Dangerously Like Fraud
atlctyslkr:
That sounds dangerously like fraud. Please keep the "high road" standard. The antis have enough ammo without us members making flippant suggestions at thwarting legal processes.
I would not personally suggest that anyone do such as you have. We have the ultimate defense for owning whatever firearms we do--the U.S. Constitution.
If, in the event you were joking, I apologize. I take the firearms laws VERY seriously.
Doc2005
atlctyslkr:
That sounds dangerously like fraud. Please keep the "high road" standard. The antis have enough ammo without us members making flippant suggestions at thwarting legal processes.
I would not personally suggest that anyone do such as you have. We have the ultimate defense for owning whatever firearms we do--the U.S. Constitution.
If, in the event you were joking, I apologize. I take the firearms laws VERY seriously.
Doc2005
Deanimator
Member
I haven't bought a firearm on a 4473 in almost ten years. I intend to keep it that way.
EOD Guy
Member
Mike128 said:
Gunsmiths must have FFLs and they log any firearms that they keep overnight into and out of their bound book.
"Please keep the "high road" standard."
I don't remember reading anything about having to verbally bow to illegal and unconstitutional laws. Stop using the "high road standard" as a catch all phrase to condemn anything YOU PERSONALLY don't like.
"We have the ultimate defense for owning whatever firearms we do--the U.S. Constitution."
Yeah, real ultimate. It gets violated EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY. The Constitution by itself is just words on paper, and if nobody takes it seriously (which is the case in this demented country of ours), then it's a whole lot of nothing.
I don't remember reading anything about having to verbally bow to illegal and unconstitutional laws. Stop using the "high road standard" as a catch all phrase to condemn anything YOU PERSONALLY don't like.
"We have the ultimate defense for owning whatever firearms we do--the U.S. Constitution."
Yeah, real ultimate. It gets violated EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY. The Constitution by itself is just words on paper, and if nobody takes it seriously (which is the case in this demented country of ours), then it's a whole lot of nothing.
Lone_Gunman
Member
That's true. It does not connect you to a particular gun, but it does identify you as a gun owner, doesn't it?
They might not know what you have, but they know you have something.
"It does not connect you to a particular gun, but it does identify you as a gun owner, doesn't it?"
Section D:
Manufacturer and/or Importer
Model
Serial Number
Type (pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, etc.)
Caliber or Gauge
http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/
Section D:
Manufacturer and/or Importer
Model
Serial Number
Type (pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, etc.)
Caliber or Gauge
http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/
Lone_Gunman
Member
v8fbird,
We were talking about the NICS check, not 4473.
We were talking about the NICS check, not 4473.
Sorry. You mentioned both then said "it."
From the NICS, they don't know what gun you purchased. They don't even know IF you purchased a gun, since you could have had the check run and then choose to not go forward with the purchase. Moreover all NICS records are supposed to be deleted within 24 hours of being completed (whether they are or not is something else).
From the NICS, they don't know what gun you purchased. They don't even know IF you purchased a gun, since you could have had the check run and then choose to not go forward with the purchase. Moreover all NICS records are supposed to be deleted within 24 hours of being completed (whether they are or not is something else).
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