Form 4473 questions

[ID-shooting]

The thing I find comical are how different places have you fill the form out. One dealer says every block mustnhave an answer. I ask, but it says right here "if you answer yes, to not respond to the next question" to wich they say nope, answer it anyway. Some have you initial, some the dates must be spelled.

I did three at three different dealers in the last few weeks. All had me do it different.

 

[MedWheeler]

Blbbrd666, Obama filled in his census form and checked off that he is "Black/African-American", or whatever option the form gave for that race.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I'm offended that the government is tracking that info and using it as a method of identification, when other, more reliable methods are required on the same form.

The point is that they are =not= tracking it. That info goes no further than the paper form ... which goes no where. It is not data you supply when calling in the background check.

Which makes it double stupid that they changed the form a few months ago, to ask the question TWICE, and had us destroy all the old forms (and the several Million $'s worth I'm sure they had warehoused somewhere) and start using the new ones on a specific date.

 

[mgkdrgn]

One dealer says every block must have an answer. I ask, but it says right here "if you answer yes, to not respond to the next question" to which they say nope, answer it anyway.

Then that FFL is a boob. His next AFT inspection is going to be .. um, interesting. Probably also says you it's illegal to ship a handgun via the USPS but it's ok to ship ammo that way, and he has to have a "signed in wet ink" snail mail FFL mailed to him to do a transfer.

 

[brickeyee]

Every FFL a;sp has a 'bound book' that every gun tat passes through his possesion is reorded in.

Source and delivery.
Bound books go to BATFE wen the license terminated.

They contain the source and destination of every gun that passed through the FFLs hands.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What do they do with the "race" info?
Why do they ask it, and what do they do with that info?

I think it's outrageous that it's on there.

Why is asking about race any different than asking about gender?

 

[Arbo]

To be precise: Twenty-nine states use FBI NICS for all checks, 13 use a state point of contact and the remainder use a either State or FBI depending on the type of transfer.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/state-lists.html

Thanks for the link. I know here they have always said it is the CBI that does the checks, but wasn't sure if they went through the federal system. It appears they do not. Which would explain why we could get 15 minute approvals (before the current rush which is still at a week or more)...

 

[sidheshooter]

I just had an interesting conversation Friday about the race section of the form (while in the process of picking up a clean, used Mossy 500). Particularly the newer question about Latino background on the form: 10a Hispanic or Latino or not Hispanic or Latino. This is separate from 10b "race" that asks about black, Asian, white, whatever.

The LGS had a guy of Mexican descent come in to buy a gun shortly after the box was added to the form (6 months ago) and he of course checked the Latino box under 10a ethnicity. Looking at box 10b, he's going "I'm not any of those". So they call and are told that he has to mark something in the box. Choice: lie, or be denied.

It's a weird set up. The LGS guy thinks it might have something to do with Zimmerman/Martin shooting (the first place we heard about "white Hispanics" in the mainstream media); the 'net seems to think it might have something to do with fast and furious and/or Mexican Gov't requests re: "trafficking". I have no idea myself, but there it sits, since July of 2012, on the form for all to see, waiting to suck if the buyer happens to be of Hispanic heritage.

Anyone here know the real deal on why the ATF added this box, effective last July?

 

[bikemutt]

Why is asking about race any different than asking about gender?

I'm not 100% certain but I think it's easier and cheaper to change gender than it is race.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Know that's funny.

 

[bikemutt]

Strange world we live in, what were once immutable characteristics are less so.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Looking at box 10b, he's going "I'm not any of those". So they call and are told that he has to mark something in the box. Choice: lie, or be denied.

No, it's not "lie or be denied". He, like many people, simply doesn't understand the difference between race and ethnicity. "Hispanic" is an ethnicity; a cultural identification. Race is a matter an ancestry. A Mexican probably considers himself to Hispanic, but that does not describe his race. Most likely, he's white, Indian, or a combination thereof.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Zimmerman case. The US Census Bureau has been using this system for years, as have most Federal agencies. The ATF is just the last agency to conform to the standard.

 

[bubba in ca]

Hispanic is ethnicity, race is race. I believe it dates from the liberation of Santa Fe in 1846 when the US commanding general declared all residents of New Mexico to be US citizens, which means they were white by law because only whites could be citizens at that time. Interesting piece of US history.

When the Pres, congress, and slavers found out what the general had done they were quite upset but didn`t overturn it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm not 100% certain but I think it's easier and cheaper to change gender than it is race.

WWGWD (What would Gene Wilder do)?



or MJ.....

and I probably just got this thread closed....

 

[HighExpert]

I held an FFL for several years and sold some guns. When I gave it up, due to requirements under Clinton, I sent my 4473s in. I redacted all info that could have been used. Never heard a word about it. I guess they are in a warehouse somewhere. I also redacted my leger.

 

[armedandsafe]

I got my one and only denial when I was early in my 60s. It seems the person who denied me found a female of a different name in Cleveland, OH, 28 years old with an SSN issued over 10 years before she was born. Since I was in my 60s, male and born in the state that issued my SSN, I couldn't be her. It didn't take long to get that one corrected.

Pops

 

[Birch Knoll]

I held an FFL for several years and sold some guns. When I gave it up, due to requirements under Clinton, I sent my 4473s in. I redacted all info that could have been used. Never heard a word about it. I guess they are in a warehouse somewhere. I also redacted my leger.

Count yourself lucky that nobody ever inspected those records. I'm pretty sure there's an orange jumpsuit somewhere that could have been yours.

 

[dprice3844444]

i never have to fill out a 4473,just insert my name and stamp below it"owners personal collection"

 

[dogtown tom]

PapaG ....Batf can come in and audit anytime....

The myth that will not die.
ATF is limited by Federal law to one compliance inspection per year.

sidheshooter ......The LGS had a guy of Mexican descent come in to buy a gun shortly after the box was added to the form (6 months ago) and he of course checked the Latino box under 10a ethnicity. Looking at box 10b, he's going "I'm not any of those". So they call and are told that he has to mark something in the box. Choice: lie, or be denied.

FYI....Race and Ethnicity are two different things. One cannot be only "Hispanic" as that is only an ethnicity. If someone doesn't know that they slept through middle school.

That question is not "new".....its been on the 4473 for decades. Last July, Que10 became 10a and 10b to clarify that "Hispanic was NOT a race. A person cannot be Hispanic only. Ask any "white Hispanic" from Mexico if he is he the same race as a black Hispanic from the Dominican Republic. both are Hispanic, but not the same race.

The LGS guy thinks it might have something to do with Zimmerman/Martin shooting (the first place we heard about "white Hispanics" in the mainstream media)

Nonsense.

the 'net seems to think it might have something to do with fast and furious and/or Mexican Gov't requests re: "trafficking". I have no idea myself, but there it sits, since July of 2012, on the form for all to see, waiting to suck if the buyer happens to be of Hispanic heritage.

More nonsense.

Anyone here know the real deal on why the ATF added this box, effective last July?

For the same reason ALL Federal forms were amended last July........it allowed inaccurate entries on "Race and Ethnicity".

HighExpert I held an FFL for several years and sold some guns. When I gave it up, due to requirements under Clinton, I sent my 4473s in. I redacted all info that could have been used. Never heard a word about it. I guess they are in a warehouse somewhere. I also redacted my leger.

Lucky you, because thats a Federal crime.