Red dot or reflex? 2MOA or 4MOA? questions...

[brentn]

Hey

Looking to take the plunge into a nice aimpoint like the ML3, and doing some research I've run into a few barriers I hope you guys can clear up.

To me, I think if I have to chose for an enhanced sight, it would be an aimpoint over a reflex. They look more durable than a reflex and they are 100% waterproof to 25meters which is awesome. This has some serious use for me as I don't want to worry about it when i'm in the bush and rain starts coming. Is the eotech just as good? is it durable?

I also noticed that the aimpoint comes in 2 or 4 MOA, I know what a minute of angle is, its a 1" group at 100 yards correct? is the 4 MOA unit designed for groupings of 25 yards and the 2 for 50 yards? or do i have this all mixed up?


Finally, what this is for. Its for my M15, it has an A2 upper so I was thinking of using the ARMS A2 mount if I decided to go the aimpoint route. I chose that mount becuase it looks really solid and has a stop pin on the locking pin so it doesn't back out.

I want this setup for medium distance shooting, like up to 100 yards and not any further, most targets will be within 25-50 yards. Ideally I wanted to make a CQB rifle in the end, and this would only be the start of it with the aimpoint.

They are asking about 569$ cndn for the ML3 and 619$cndn for the M3 with nightvision support.

what do you guys think?

As usual, your help is greatly appreciated.

what do you guys think?

 

[Zak Smith]

The 2 MOA vs. 4 MOA is the size of the dot. THe 2 will cover 2" at 100 yards, the 4 will cover about 4" at 100 yards. Go ahead and get the 2 MOA-- you can turn the brightness up to make it appear larger.

 

[brentn]

Thanks zak, looks like I did have that all backwards.

So I take it you like the aimpoint over the eotech?

 

[Zak Smith]

Yes.

I'll go out on a limb and call the Aimpoint M3 and M4 the best choices for a fighting Type I optic. The EOTech has followers and is used in harm's way, however, the Aimpoint line trumps the EOTech in several important respects: the Aimpoint's battery lasts much, much longer than the EOTech and the Aimpoint can be turned on and off using only tactile feedback. The shooter needs to be looking at the EOTech to determine if it's on.

 

[GunTech]

I use both the Aimpoint CompM3 and the Eotech. I like the Eotech much better for snap shooting, but if I was going in harms way, I'd pick the new AimPoint CompM4. It uses an AA battery, has an integrated Picatinny mount, and can run up to 80,000 hours on a single battery.

Zak also noted a real PITA - you gave to be looking at the sight to turn it off, and it's awkward. It will auto-off, but mine seems to do that only at the wrong time.

YMMV

 

[Omnivore]

You really can't go wrong with either an Aimpoint or EOTech. The EOTech reticle is better IMO, especially on moving targets, but its heavier and uses more power. The Aimpoint IS actually a reflex sight, but I assume you were talking about the Trijicon Reflex or Reflex II, which are also very good.

The tactile on/off sensing is good I suppose, but having used all of these sights regularly, I never really thought about it. You turn it on when you go out and you turn it off (or not) when you come home.

The dot size has nothing to do with your group size. Even the 4 MOA reticle is much smaller than the width of your front sight post. That said, go for the 2 MOA if you get an Aimpoint. As said, you can always turn it up for better visibility.

The ARMS#16A is a good choice for the carry handle, but the #2 along with the 10819 ring gives you more positioning options. I have not been satisfied with any of the "gooseneck" mounts I've seen so far.

These "speed sights" are good for CQB, but they're also just as good as iron sights (one could argue that they're much better) for slow fire at longer distances, out to the useful range of the rifle.

The new CompM4 is excellent on a flat top AR, but it's a bit heavier, and on your carry handle mount it will sit a bit higher than the other Comp sights, even in its lowest configuration.

For further study, see my article here:
http://www.ultimak.com/UnderstandingE-sights.htm

 

[possum]

the us best operators use eotechs. that isn't the reason i use them but i have one on my ar and i love it. there are many advantages i believe over the aimpoint.

is the 4 MOA unit designed for groupings of 25 yards and the 2 for 50 yards? or do i have this all mixed up?

i zero my eotech to 50yds as well as my iron sights. btw the eotech has the 1 moa dot and the 65moa circle.

 

[casio02478]

Just one more difference between the two, Aimpoint's dot can be seen by your opponents with NVGs unless you have the killflash filter, which hinders long range shooting since it distorts the sight picture somewhat. While the EOTECH's reticle cannot be seen by opfor's NVG. I also agree with guntech that the EOTECH is a bit faster in CQB and MOUT situations. As to 2 vs 4 question, I just finished a carbine class at front sight with a aimpoint M2 4MOA sight on a AR and by the time we got to the 300m mark, I was begging for a smaller dot, don't even ask me about it when we moved back to the 400m range .